At 1500 euros for a pair of monoblocks (including case etc.), they won't be anything to write home about...
There are hundreds of amps out there that are more expensive (and thus more... "excellent", following your frame of thought). 😀
For most DIY'ers 1500 euros for a pair of class d amps is out of the league, the more since you can buy the same class d power for a quarter....
Yeah, big Krell, Nelson Pass etc amplifiers are out my league too.
The fact that I can buy PA-oriented and/or chinese made Class AB amps or even eBay clones of the same power for the fraction of the cost doesn't mean anything.
how did you arrive at 1500 Euro?
a single amp module, the nc400 is ~400E, The nc1200 if it were available is likely to be more expensive.
Assuming that good value new components are being used expect the chassis and PSU to be double the amp module cost.
I doubt you could build an nc1200 based monoblock for less then 1800E. The two monoblocks would come to >=3600E.
Adopting high value parts for the ancillary components could easily double the two monoblock cost to >7000Euro
It's about 1200 euros inc. VAT for a pair of amps and a pair of matching SMPSs from Hypex.
To that I add 300 euros for two cases, wiring, IECs, terminals etc. It's more than enough if you're not into special/custom cases or exotic "hi end" terminals, wires etc.
The NC1200 is an OEM module.
If that is the case then it is not available to us.
What is the point of telling us that the NC1200 has fantastic performance that can better almost every other amplifier type out there, when we can't buy it.
If the data on the nc1200 is to be used for comparison, then how can you come up with a guesstimated price for the amp module when they won't sell it to us?
Andrew,
The available DIY module is the NC400 (however out of stock until end of January); it is the same technology as NC1200 (who'd ever need that much power for domestic applications anyway?), and reportedly sounds the same.
It costs under 400 Euro VAT included.
The available DIY module is the NC400 (however out of stock until end of January); it is the same technology as NC1200 (who'd ever need that much power for domestic applications anyway?), and reportedly sounds the same.
It costs under 400 Euro VAT included.
Then go back and delete all the references to NC1200 performance and substitute real life performance figures for amplifiers built using the nc400.
I don't feel the need to, but if you do...please make the same statement at the hypex ncore thread. Be prepared however for some fierce opposition 😀
AndrewT, TheShaman and Pietre t:
I think we're starting to get a little OT with this.
Hypertune:
I have an Anthem Statement A2 here that with a little extra bias and a fully regulated supply does measure around the same and sometimes slightly better than The Wire. It's not exactly a cheap amplifier though, and the regulated supply is actually a bench top lab supply which isn't cheap either!
Otherwise, if you're alright with lower output power, I have a little treat in the works that should give about 16W output into 8 ohms and gives the same distortion and noise performance of the SE-SE headphone amplifier. That would be about 20dB lower noise floor, and at least 10dB better distortion figures.
I'll let people know more when I have a more aesthetically pleasing prototype built up 🙂
Cheers,
Owen
I think we're starting to get a little OT with this.
Hypertune:
I have an Anthem Statement A2 here that with a little extra bias and a fully regulated supply does measure around the same and sometimes slightly better than The Wire. It's not exactly a cheap amplifier though, and the regulated supply is actually a bench top lab supply which isn't cheap either!
Otherwise, if you're alright with lower output power, I have a little treat in the works that should give about 16W output into 8 ohms and gives the same distortion and noise performance of the SE-SE headphone amplifier. That would be about 20dB lower noise floor, and at least 10dB better distortion figures.
I'll let people know more when I have a more aesthetically pleasing prototype built up 🙂
Cheers,
Owen
Hi OPC,
some are championing a particular amplifier topology and suggesting, based on dubious data, that that topology offers better value for money than your offering.
Their whole argument is foundless. We should all disregard that off topic interjection. In it's present form the data for the alternative cannot be substantiated.
Maybe we should ask the Moderators to remove all references to switching amplifiers from this thread.
Do we need a vote on that?
some are championing a particular amplifier topology and suggesting, based on dubious data, that that topology offers better value for money than your offering.
Their whole argument is foundless. We should all disregard that off topic interjection. In it's present form the data for the alternative cannot be substantiated.
Maybe we should ask the Moderators to remove all references to switching amplifiers from this thread.
Do we need a vote on that?
Owen,
I have been trying to catch up on many years of inactivity from diy power amp projects by reading both Cordell's and Self's impressive textbooks on the subject. Please clarify for me the definition of class B vs class A/B. It seems that Mr. Self's "properly biased" class B is what we (on this forum) are calling class A/B. And, when we use the term class B, we mean OPS Iq approximately equal to zero.
Thanks,
Neel
I have been trying to catch up on many years of inactivity from diy power amp projects by reading both Cordell's and Self's impressive textbooks on the subject. Please clarify for me the definition of class B vs class A/B. It seems that Mr. Self's "properly biased" class B is what we (on this forum) are calling class A/B. And, when we use the term class B, we mean OPS Iq approximately equal to zero.
Thanks,
Neel
Does not seem necessary to me.
Floridabear was the first (post#481) coming up with a distortion curve of the ncore amp.
You, Andrew T, being the first asking for more information... (post#482).
But I agree with Owen: too much attention for class d here; let's stick with the Wire Amp.
Owen admittedly left the door open a little by his "no class D amp..." assertion, but I think we've now exhausted that topic. I apologize if I derailed the thread. Let's get back to the Wire!
Yes D.Self states quite clearly what "his definition" of ClassB means.
It is exactly the equivalent to the generally accepted Optimally biased ClassAB BJT amplifier.
ClassB is not when bias is zero.
ClassA is when all devices take an active role in controlling the output current over the full cycle of the AC waveform.
This is quite different from: ClassA is when the devices never turn off.
ClassAB is when the devices conduct for more than 180degrees and less than 360degrees of the AC waveform cycle.
ClassB is when the devices conduct for 180degrees of the AC waveform cycle. This is different from: when the output bias is zero.
npdot:
AndrewT is spot on. I'm not sure why Mr. Self would complicate the issue by introducing "his definition" of a class B, but I'm sure there was a point to be made in there somewhere.
As mentioned, bias can be a complicated way of looking at the issue, when you should be focusing on the amount of the output angle each device conducts.
Regards,
Owen
AndrewT is spot on. I'm not sure why Mr. Self would complicate the issue by introducing "his definition" of a class B, but I'm sure there was a point to be made in there somewhere.
As mentioned, bias can be a complicated way of looking at the issue, when you should be focusing on the amount of the output angle each device conducts.
Regards,
Owen
Andrew,
Thanks for the clarification of Mr. Self's definition of class B, and for reminding me that he clearly states the definition. Could you go one step further? After I posted the question, I realized that the definitions might be viewed differently for BJT vs FET OPS's. For example, in post #466 Owen refers to his figure 5 as "FFT @ 1W, Class B (not quite true class B about 5mA bias)".
Your help is appreciated.
Neel
Thanks for the clarification of Mr. Self's definition of class B, and for reminding me that he clearly states the definition. Could you go one step further? After I posted the question, I realized that the definitions might be viewed differently for BJT vs FET OPS's. For example, in post #466 Owen refers to his figure 5 as "FFT @ 1W, Class B (not quite true class B about 5mA bias)".
Your help is appreciated.
Neel
Owen & Andrew,
I realize that my questions are a little down in the weeds. My objective is to understand what I'm reading. Output angle is very clear.
Also, I suspect that for the better informed, there is little confusion over "casual" vs. "academic" terminology. The Cordell and Self books seem quite academic but not totally consistent with each other in a few terms.
Thanks again.
Neel
I realize that my questions are a little down in the weeds. My objective is to understand what I'm reading. Output angle is very clear.
Also, I suspect that for the better informed, there is little confusion over "casual" vs. "academic" terminology. The Cordell and Self books seem quite academic but not totally consistent with each other in a few terms.
Thanks again.
Neel