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"The Wiener" TPA3118 amplifier, group buy #3 + "Wiener Pro" prototypes.

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#101
Sorry, the Wiener Pro seems so attractive, I want to make a change.

loafimus: 6 x bare Pro PCB w/ microcontrollers
jonners: 1x stereo fully assembled Pro
Pyjamas Before Chris: 1x stereo fully assembled Pro
wushuliu: 1 Pair Assembled PBTL MINUS CONNECTORS - 4 ohm
hepmusic 1 stereo 3118 8 ohm fully assembled
rhing: 1x stereo Wiener 3 Pro, fully assembled + 1x stereo Wiener (both 8 ohm)
williamau:2 x Weiner Pro, fully assembled
BK856er: 1x bare Wiener Pro + microcontroller
shochu: 1x fully assembled stereo + filter & thermal kits
TigerFoo: 1x fully assembled stereo + filter and thermal kits
boylah: 1xstereo 3118 8 ohm fully assembled
ChuckT 18 X full assembled TPA3118, 4 x full assembled TPA3250 (filter, thermal kits to be confirm)
Fjd: 2 x [Stereo Wiener 4 ohm, fully assembled and tested, filter kit, thermal kit] + 2 x [PBTL Wiener 4 ohm, fully assembled and tested, filter kit, thermal kit] + 1 x [The Wiener Pro 4 ohm, fully assembled and tested]
Takayama69 a.k.a Anders Högberg: 1x TPA3250 all inclusive. 8 Ohm-version.
mabu0815: 1x Stereo Wiener PCB + 2x PBTL PCBs + 3x microcontrollers
 
#103
loafimus: 6 x bare Pro PCB w/ microcontrollers
jonners: 1x stereo fully assembled Pro
Pyjamas Before Chris: 1x stereo fully assembled Pro
wushuliu: 1 Pair Assembled PBTL MINUS CONNECTORS - 4 ohm
hepmusic 1 stereo 3118 8 ohm fully assembled
rhing: 1x stereo Wiener 3 Pro, fully assembled + 1x stereo Wiener (both 8 ohm)
williamau:2 x Weiner Pro, fully assembled
BK856er: 1x bare Wiener Pro + microcontroller
shochu: 1x fully assembled stereo + filter & thermal kits
TigerFoo: 1x fully assembled stereo + filter and thermal kits
boylah: 1xstereo 3118 8 ohm fully assembled
ChuckT 18 X full assembled TPA3118, 4 x full assembled TPA3250 (filter, thermal kits to be confirm)
Fjd: 2 x [Stereo Wiener 4 ohm, fully assembled and tested, filter kit, thermal kit] + 2 x [PBTL Wiener 4 ohm, fully assembled and tested, filter kit, thermal kit] + 1 x [The Wiener Pro 4 ohm, fully assembled and tested]
Takayama69 a.k.a Anders Högberg: 1x TPA3250 all inclusive. 8 Ohm-version.
mabu0815: 1x Stereo Wiener PCB + 2x PBTL PCBs + 3x microcontroller
Gordon_lo: 2 x Stereo Wiener 8 ohm, fully assembled + 2 x PBTL Wiener 8 ohm, fully assembled + 1 x The Wiener Pro 8 ohm, fully assembled
 
#104
comickitkit said:
hi gmarsh,

will coilcraft be applied to Wiener Stereo? Or is it a options?
Click to expand...
The Wiener Stereo will use ICE Components inductors. Sagami 7G14A can be used instead, however these aren't available from north american distributors and I'd have to up the price to get some here in Canada. I had to do that when I did the first group buy and Mouser ran out of stock on the 10uH ICE parts.

The ICE inductors are excellent. With a 4 ohm load, the 10uH inductor drops 10% at 11A - but the worst you can put into them with a 24V supply and a 4 ohm load is 6A. With an 8 ohm load, maximum current is 3A but the 15uH inductor still saturates at 11A. They are operated well within their linear region. And more importantly, they saturate well above the TPA3118's current limit threshold - the TPA requires a minimum inductance for its short circuit protection to work, and if the inductance falls off a cliff in a short circuit condition, a blown TPA3118 could result. You can't say any of that about the cheap 12mm inductors you find on your average Chinese TPA3116 card.

The VER2923s I'm using on the PBTL and Pro cards are way too big for the stereo card. The closest comparable Coilcraft inductor is a MSS1278 or MSS1583, which have a 12mm and 15mm width respectively and would make the card bigger - and judging by the L versus current on Coilcraft's site, wouldn't offer any performance benefit over the ICE part anyway.

So rest assured, the ICE part is more than adequate for the stereo card - I honestly have my doubts you'd be able to measure a performance difference if the card used the Coilcraft inductor instead.

But if you really want "complete overkill Coilcraft deliciousness", grab a pair of PBTL cards or Pro card 🙂
 
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#105
Also, thanks everyone for your interest. This group buy has officially gone from "I hope I get enough interest to sell some of these" to "aww crap, I gotta hand build all of these?" 😉

Pro layout is officially done. I was up late last night finalizing component values, almost completed. With that done I'll bang out the BOM spreadsheet, come up with a final parts cost and figure out the final price.
 
#106
Hi gmarsh, I've been reading some interesting posts about the "Wiener" and really would like to give it a try. Thanks for your effort and time!

loafimus: 6 x bare Pro PCB w/ microcontrollers
jonners: 1x stereo fully assembled Pro
Pyjamas Before Chris: 1x stereo fully assembled Pro
wushuliu: 1 Pair Assembled PBTL MINUS CONNECTORS - 4 ohm
hepmusic 1 stereo 3118 8 ohm fully assembled
rhing: 1x stereo Wiener 3 Pro, fully assembled + 1x stereo Wiener (both 8 ohm)
williamau:2 x Weiner Pro, fully assembled
BK856er: 1x bare Wiener Pro + microcontroller
shochu: 1x fully assembled stereo + filter & thermal kits
TigerFoo: 1x fully assembled stereo + filter and thermal kits
boylah: 1xstereo 3118 8 ohm fully assembled
ChuckT 18 X full assembled TPA3118, 4 x full assembled TPA3250 (filter, thermal kits to be confirm)
Fjd: 2 x [Stereo Wiener 4 ohm, fully assembled and tested, filter kit, thermal kit] + 2 x [PBTL Wiener 4 ohm, fully assembled and tested, filter kit, thermal kit] + 1 x [The Wiener Pro 4 ohm, fully assembled and tested]
Takayama69 a.k.a Anders Högberg: 1x TPA3250 all inclusive. 8 Ohm-version.
mabu0815: 1x Stereo Wiener PCB + 2x PBTL PCBs + 3x microcontroller
Gordon_lo: 2 x Stereo Wiener 8 ohm, fully assembled + 2 x PBTL Wiener 8 ohm, fully assembled + 1 x The Wiener Pro 8 ohm, fully assembled
rchan: 1x fully assembled stereo + filter kits
 
#109
Can't resist to add the mono board. Update my order. Thanks

loafimus: 6 x bare Pro PCB w/ microcontrollers
jonners: 1x stereo fully assembled Pro
Pyjamas Before Chris: 1x stereo fully assembled Pro
wushuliu: 1 Pair Assembled PBTL MINUS CONNECTORS - 4 ohm
hepmusic 1 stereo 3118 8 ohm fully assembled
rhing: 1x stereo Wiener 3 Pro, fully assembled + 1x stereo Wiener (both 8 ohm)
williamau:2 x Weiner Pro, fully assembled
BK856er: 1x bare Wiener Pro + microcontroller
shochu: 1x fully assembled stereo + filter & thermal kits
TigerFoo: 1 x fully assembled stereo 8 ohm + filter and thermal kits, 1 pair fully assembled PBTL 8 ohm + filter and thermal kits
boylah: 1xstereo 3118 8 ohm fully assembled
ChuckT 18 X full assembled TPA3118, 4 x full assembled TPA3250 (filter, thermal kits to be confirm)
Fjd: 2 x [Stereo Wiener 4 ohm, fully assembled and tested, filter kit, thermal kit] + 2 x [PBTL Wiener 4 ohm, fully assembled and tested, filter kit, thermal kit] + 1 x [The Wiener Pro 4 ohm, fully assembled and tested]
Takayama69 a.k.a Anders Högberg: 1x TPA3250 all inclusive. 8 Ohm-version.
mabu0815: 1x Stereo Wiener PCB + 2x PBTL PCBs + 3x microcontroller
Gordon_lo: 2 x Stereo Wiener 8 ohm, fully assembled + 2 x PBTL Wiener 8 ohm, fully assembled + 1 x The Wiener Pro 8 ohm, fully assembled
rchan: 1x fully assembled stereo + filter kits
BBUK: 4 (four) x fully assembled stereo + filter and thermal kits.
 
#110
loafimus: 6 x bare Pro PCB w/ microcontrollers
jonners: 1x stereo fully assembled Pro
Pyjamas Before Chris: 1x stereo fully assembled Pro
wushuliu: 1 Pair Assembled PBTL MINUS CONNECTORS - 4 ohm
hepmusic 1 stereo 3118 8 ohm fully assembled
rhing: 1x stereo Wiener 3 Pro, fully assembled + 1x stereo Wiener (both 8 ohm)
williamau:2 x Weiner Pro, fully assembled
BK856er: 1x bare Wiener Pro + microcontroller
shochu: 1x fully assembled stereo + filter & thermal kits
TigerFoo: 1 x fully assembled stereo 8 ohm + filter and thermal kits, 1 pair fully assembled PBTL 8 ohm + filter and thermal kits
boylah: 1xstereo 3118 8 ohm fully assembled
ChuckT 18 X full assembled TPA3118, 4 x full assembled TPA3250 (filter, thermal kits to be confirm)
Fjd: 2 x [Stereo Wiener 4 ohm, fully assembled and tested, filter kit, thermal kit] + 2 x [PBTL Wiener 4 ohm, fully assembled and tested, filter kit, thermal kit] + 1 x [The Wiener Pro 4 ohm, fully assembled and tested]
Takayama69 a.k.a Anders Högberg: 1x TPA3250 all inclusive. 8 Ohm-version.
mabu0815: 1x Stereo Wiener PCB + 2x PBTL PCBs + 3x microcontroller
Gordon_lo: 2 x Stereo Wiener 8 ohm, fully assembled + 2 x PBTL Wiener 8 ohm, fully assembled + 1 x The Wiener Pro 8 ohm, fully assembled
rchan: 1x fully assembled stereo + filter kits
BBUK: 4 (four) x fully assembled stereo + filter and thermal kits.
lacro: 1 x 3118 Stereo Wiener 8 ohm, fully assembled
 
#111
Final Wiener Pro layout.

DT5VO4N.jpg


Changes over the first post:

- Board size now 7.5x12.5cm
- Coilcraft VER2923 overkill deliciousness instead of the ICE 1D17A.
- More decoupling on lots of things. There's now a pair of 100uF polymer electrolytics by each analog input.
- Analog input is now LM4652 front end gain stage and LME49724 fully differential amplifier, the latter necessitating a footprint change. RF EMI rejection on the input is improved.
- 2 position DIP switch added providing AMx mode (switching frequency) selection, replacing the pot that was there previously, which TI tells me wouldn't work.
- .100" sockets added for gain setting resistors. Board default gain is 20dB, and you can stuff a through-hole resistor in the socket to bump up the gain to 26/32/36 dB. I'll order the resistors and throw them in with the card for people doing full orders.

There's probably 30-40 CAD worth of parts on the analog inputs alone right now. The 1st post cost was a wild guess, gonna bang out the BOM next and see where cost ends up. Hopefully it won't be too big of a fright.
 
#115
gmars, may I ask about your design choices for the Pro? Why did you choose to equip the TPA3251 based Pro with an elaborate input stage while the TPA3116D2 weiner don't seem to have one? The TPA3251 data sheet doesn't seem to indicate that one is required.

//
 
#116
Whoops, correct part number is LM4562 🙂

The TPA3250 part require a symmetric, balanced audio input. It's not clear in the datasheets, but they've got a SE->balanced conversion happening on the EVM card and TI themselves confirmed the requirement for it to me.

The input stage isn't really elaborate, it's your basic instrumentation amplifier circuit but with a fully differential difference stage. It does everything here well - it provides symmetric/balanced outputs to the TPA chip, it happily handles single ended/differential inputs, it has excellent CMRR even with mismatched impedances on the +/- inputs, and you can change the circuit gain with 1 resistor. And it does all that with 2 IC's.
 
#117
gmarsh said:
The TPA3250 part require a symmetric, balanced audio input. It's not clear in the datasheets, but they've got a SE->balanced conversion happening on the EVM card and TI themselves confirmed the requirement for it to me.

The input stage isn't really elaborate, it's your basic instrumentation amplifier circuit but with a fully differential difference stage. It does everything here well - it provides symmetric/balanced outputs to the TPA chip, it happily handles single ended/differential inputs, it has excellent CMRR even with mismatched impedances on the +/- inputs, and you can change the circuit gain with 1 resistor. And it does all that with 2 IC's.
Click to expand...

Could some/all of that be accomplished with input transformers, e.g. Jensen JT-11P-1?
 
#118
gmarsh said:
Whoops, correct part number is LM4562 🙂

The TPA3250 part require a symmetric, balanced audio input. It's not clear in the datasheets, but they've got a SE->balanced conversion happening on the EVM card and TI themselves confirmed the requirement for it to me.

The input stage isn't really elaborate, it's your basic instrumentation amplifier circuit but with a fully differential difference stage. It does everything here well - it provides symmetric/balanced outputs to the TPA chip, it happily handles single ended/differential inputs, it has excellent CMRR even with mismatched impedances on the +/- inputs, and you can change the circuit gain with 1 resistor. And it does all that with 2 IC's.
Click to expand...

OK - thanks!!

//
 
#120
gmarsh said:
Yeah, they'd do a wonderful job here.

Though at $70 USD/channel, I'm not too eager to design them in 🙂
Click to expand...

Understandably! How hard would it be to throw in some solder pads for them? And maybe some jumpers to allow the user to effectively remove the active circuitry in favor of the transformers (or even their own balanced preamp/buffer/whatever)?

Or maybe put the solder pads/jumpers on the wishlist for Pro version 2? 🙂
 
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