Hi EH
I'm assuming you're inquiring specifically about the clock.
Swapped out a Crystek w the Driscoll on Ian's clock board feeding a 1541 in simultaneous mode.
Heard an improvement in upper frequencies & more suble sounds, things like cymbal decay and brushes.
Honestly, the improvement isn't on the same level as the one I had adding Doede's NOS DAC to my system many years ago for example, but as you go on with adding really nice sounding gear, the improvements do get incremental but still nice when they happen.
I'm assuming you're inquiring specifically about the clock.
Swapped out a Crystek w the Driscoll on Ian's clock board feeding a 1541 in simultaneous mode.
Heard an improvement in upper frequencies & more suble sounds, things like cymbal decay and brushes.
Honestly, the improvement isn't on the same level as the one I had adding Doede's NOS DAC to my system many years ago for example, but as you go on with adding really nice sounding gear, the improvements do get incremental but still nice when they happen.
How quick was the switching between devices (for aural memory fade compensation) and was the levels matched (for objective comparison)?
ppap64,
Further comments on moderation will not be tolerated. That is in the rules if you care to check.
Is there a pending amendment to the rules that will enforce all subjective claims of sound quality to be accompanied by an objective analysis that has been approved by the moderating teams?
Hi Raj1,
No, that would cause no end of fights.
To be perfectly honest, I only care about claims when there are technical aspects claimed that are either not true, or have had no work done to substantiate them. When these technical claims are made, it is a form of lie that misleads other people who are not knowledgeable. DiyAudio is all about the aspects of DIY, but also technical truth. Since I am a practicing electronics technician that specialises in audio with formal training, and also someone trained in calibrating and repairing test equipment, I can't let technically untrue statements stand. My bench equipment is state of the art, so I have an advantage there.
Subjective comments are always about the same. You will have people claiming whatever improvements no matter what. You will have others who disagree - after all it is subjective. But you have to realise when you read these statements that there were people swearing the same list of sonic improvements to the green marker around the outside edge of CDs. When you have a subjective opinion, it will be defended robustly if it is questioned.
One thing for certain. When a technical claim is made that is not backed up, and any question is raised about it, the response from the person claiming this will range all over the map and often the supporters will dig in and create a huge fight. But at the heart of it all, the claims made are either right or they are not. If the person(s) making the claim have anything to lose, reputation or especially money (even a tiny amount), you can expect just about every trick in the book to be used by people making claims without proper research and proof. If you make a claim, it is up to you to prove it. No one else. And guess what? The argument that "it could be possible", or "you can't measure everything" are false arguments. Our levels of test and measurement have progressed so amazingly far that these days we easily measure (with the right equipment and procedures) well past what you can hear or sense.
The next thing they will trot out is our amazing brain. Right, that is what will fool us every time. But, when you subject our senses to any stimulus with variations too small to be discerned by the human body, the brain does not have anything to go on through our senses. It then comes down to what we are thinking. Our subjective decision.
Anyway, except in obvious situations, there is zero point in arguing a subjective opinion. But, if you make a technical claim without supporting evidence collected properly, you should expect some of our knowledgeable members will question you. If you can't prove your point, best to be honest and accept the correct information. Otherwise you are actively misleading people, which is dishonest.
So there you go. If you do read a technical claim where the facts are in question by knowledgeable people, you might want to wait for the technical aspects to be resolved. If they can't be, that should call into question the other claims being made.
In this case I don't really care about who makes a great clock or its quality. I only care that the claims made have merit and that the people making the claims have done due diligence and researched the subject. In this case they have not. So, knowing this if you want to experiment, great. Have at it. I simply do not think it is right to mislead people and I have a strong moral belief that claims made should be proved true before they are made by those making them. Otherwise I have no horse in this race.
-Chris
No, that would cause no end of fights.
To be perfectly honest, I only care about claims when there are technical aspects claimed that are either not true, or have had no work done to substantiate them. When these technical claims are made, it is a form of lie that misleads other people who are not knowledgeable. DiyAudio is all about the aspects of DIY, but also technical truth. Since I am a practicing electronics technician that specialises in audio with formal training, and also someone trained in calibrating and repairing test equipment, I can't let technically untrue statements stand. My bench equipment is state of the art, so I have an advantage there.
Subjective comments are always about the same. You will have people claiming whatever improvements no matter what. You will have others who disagree - after all it is subjective. But you have to realise when you read these statements that there were people swearing the same list of sonic improvements to the green marker around the outside edge of CDs. When you have a subjective opinion, it will be defended robustly if it is questioned.
One thing for certain. When a technical claim is made that is not backed up, and any question is raised about it, the response from the person claiming this will range all over the map and often the supporters will dig in and create a huge fight. But at the heart of it all, the claims made are either right or they are not. If the person(s) making the claim have anything to lose, reputation or especially money (even a tiny amount), you can expect just about every trick in the book to be used by people making claims without proper research and proof. If you make a claim, it is up to you to prove it. No one else. And guess what? The argument that "it could be possible", or "you can't measure everything" are false arguments. Our levels of test and measurement have progressed so amazingly far that these days we easily measure (with the right equipment and procedures) well past what you can hear or sense.
The next thing they will trot out is our amazing brain. Right, that is what will fool us every time. But, when you subject our senses to any stimulus with variations too small to be discerned by the human body, the brain does not have anything to go on through our senses. It then comes down to what we are thinking. Our subjective decision.
Anyway, except in obvious situations, there is zero point in arguing a subjective opinion. But, if you make a technical claim without supporting evidence collected properly, you should expect some of our knowledgeable members will question you. If you can't prove your point, best to be honest and accept the correct information. Otherwise you are actively misleading people, which is dishonest.
So there you go. If you do read a technical claim where the facts are in question by knowledgeable people, you might want to wait for the technical aspects to be resolved. If they can't be, that should call into question the other claims being made.
In this case I don't really care about who makes a great clock or its quality. I only care that the claims made have merit and that the people making the claims have done due diligence and researched the subject. In this case they have not. So, knowing this if you want to experiment, great. Have at it. I simply do not think it is right to mislead people and I have a strong moral belief that claims made should be proved true before they are made by those making them. Otherwise I have no horse in this race.
-Chris
True, to an extent anyway. You have chosen to concentrate on the need for a clock with the performance of Andrea's in a practical dac. As for myself, I could criticize the exact same sorts of things going on in other threads and areas of the forum that you seem to neglect criticizing. People are wasting money on junk they don't really need just because they think they are doing something special for their hobby. Some of it is IMHO utter nonsense. I don't want attack anyone or any of those thread ideas in public though, so we could discuss in more detail by PM if you like. However, I do think that if you really believe as you claim you do in this thread, that you should start doing the same exact type of criticizing in other threads. That includes threads for members who pay vendor services on this website. That shouldn't protect them from your "honesty about what hobbyists do and don't need in your opinion" crusade.
I thought Andrea backed up always his claims with phase noise measurement and showed his claim was correct - building a low phase noise clock
Also, I Never felt mislead by him.
As much as I appreciate you efforts to protect the readers here, I also think we got it. At least I did. Before being accused I speak for others without mandate. I would like to go back to the thread having posts by readers and people who have the clock and sharing experience and questions
That would be nice
.
Also, I Never felt mislead by him.
As much as I appreciate you efforts to protect the readers here, I also think we got it. At least I did. Before being accused I speak for others without mandate. I would like to go back to the thread having posts by readers and people who have the clock and sharing experience and questions
That would be nice
.
Hi Mark,
I can't be everywhere and honestly don't know about other issues. I can only comment when I see issues like this. I also only have so much time for things like this and would rather assist people with technical problems such as a repair. Remember too, I am a member just like you are. Occasionally I am called upon to be a moderator as well. My comments have no greater weight or authority than yours unless the moderator hat comes out.
I have reacted the same way in the past when I run across misrepresentations. As far as a vendor thread is concerned, they are not like the average thread. One major difference is that it is clearly a vendor thread where money is at stake. Knowing this, our members can then judge accordingly. In this thread, it has been claimed that there is no commercial interest.
As you well know, most commercial advertising stretches the truth at the very least. A vendor thread is completely different than a normal thread such as this one. We do not moderate them the same way. Our members should treat them similarly to a commercial website. When there is money involved you can't always expect the truth.
-Chris
I can't be everywhere and honestly don't know about other issues. I can only comment when I see issues like this. I also only have so much time for things like this and would rather assist people with technical problems such as a repair. Remember too, I am a member just like you are. Occasionally I am called upon to be a moderator as well. My comments have no greater weight or authority than yours unless the moderator hat comes out.
I have reacted the same way in the past when I run across misrepresentations. As far as a vendor thread is concerned, they are not like the average thread. One major difference is that it is clearly a vendor thread where money is at stake. Knowing this, our members can then judge accordingly. In this thread, it has been claimed that there is no commercial interest.
As you well know, most commercial advertising stretches the truth at the very least. A vendor thread is completely different than a normal thread such as this one. We do not moderate them the same way. Our members should treat them similarly to a commercial website. When there is money involved you can't always expect the truth.
-Chris
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