I have both NEW Drixo and Exo with 5.x crystals...i believe Drixo measured a bit better, but that would not lead me to any conclusions on SQ...that is why I ordered two 5.x crystals...
I think its the circuit as I dont believe in difference in 5.x crystals from the same batch/delivery...
I will be off for a week, having some vacation...but in the meantime the clocks and the fifo/dac are running 24h/7d...so will mature and the reaction on different PSU will be a bit more meaningfull...
After that I will compare the effect of PSUs...Ultrabib is on the list...battery supply as well...
I think its the circuit as I dont believe in difference in 5.x crystals from the same batch/delivery...
I will be off for a week, having some vacation...but in the meantime the clocks and the fifo/dac are running 24h/7d...so will mature and the reaction on different PSU will be a bit more meaningfull...
After that I will compare the effect of PSUs...Ultrabib is on the list...battery supply as well...
Well...there are people at home...and those ultrabib for Soekris are now running like 5years non stop...at least ? I found it extremly reliable...Ultrabib is for me the reference wehn it comes to LV regs...but I am always open...on tube filament and HV supply LCLC with Nano Chokes from Alexander (50Ae) is hard to beat, not regs there...
Reflektor-D is at some point of time for the fifo dac an option...for the drixo with its 15V...yes the ultrabib is planned...
I am now back and the clocks/dacs played continously...What can I say ? More air, very transparent, very nice natural tone...microdynamics and transients are simply there...some unnatural coloration in some recordings just disappeared...
Well...it makes me think.
I was pretty sure that i need to optimize my xover to get rid of some tonal coloration in some voices...wrong place to my surprise now...the errors are gone.
Never thought it came from the DACs before.
Andreas Fifo/DAC plays a bit like a wire. That is the best comparison....And fits to my philosophy, I try to avoid compensation trade-offs. Ideally a component lets simply the recording information through. This "you are in the same room/its simply there" effect become sthan sometimes breathtaking/scary.
I will now continue to get it even further...but its already a great tool as you can be quiet sure that at least one component of your system is no longer a bottleneck and really nearly without flaws...which helps a lot to develop the rest, be it amps or speakers...
But i will do it slowly...it always takes time to burn in any reg/psu...and the fifo/dac dont like to be not powered on always...so you got to invest time when having done changes...
I will give the I2soverusb the clock-board with some Pulsar Clocks...as I have them ln the shelf...shorten the Cables, desolder the I2S Connectors from the fifo and connect the boards with short twisted solid core silver cables...instead of cheap aliexpress connectors/cables...
I am now back and the clocks/dacs played continously...What can I say ? More air, very transparent, very nice natural tone...microdynamics and transients are simply there...some unnatural coloration in some recordings just disappeared...
Well...it makes me think.
I was pretty sure that i need to optimize my xover to get rid of some tonal coloration in some voices...wrong place to my surprise now...the errors are gone.
Never thought it came from the DACs before.
Andreas Fifo/DAC plays a bit like a wire. That is the best comparison....And fits to my philosophy, I try to avoid compensation trade-offs. Ideally a component lets simply the recording information through. This "you are in the same room/its simply there" effect become sthan sometimes breathtaking/scary.
I will now continue to get it even further...but its already a great tool as you can be quiet sure that at least one component of your system is no longer a bottleneck and really nearly without flaws...which helps a lot to develop the rest, be it amps or speakers...
But i will do it slowly...it always takes time to burn in any reg/psu...and the fifo/dac dont like to be not powered on always...so you got to invest time when having done changes...
I will give the I2soverusb the clock-board with some Pulsar Clocks...as I have them ln the shelf...shorten the Cables, desolder the I2S Connectors from the fifo and connect the boards with short twisted solid core silver cables...instead of cheap aliexpress connectors/cables...
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Blitz It's funny,I also had an imbalance between the bass and the treble that I try to restore with the resistance on the tweeter,But without real satisfaction,I did not question my source of course
With Fifo everything is back to normal,
I await your conclusion on Drixo supplies.
With Fifo everything is back to normal,I await your conclusion on Drixo supplies.
Nice...we share the same experiences...I can see as well the comparison to analog sources as well...
But the longer I look into it...the picture of a wire is describing it best...if you ever compare the sound of resistors...wirewounds...metal...carbon...z-foils...AN tantalum(any version silver etc)...and finally a piece of copper wire (with a ferrite) as a grid stopper...the effect is very similar...the wire is simply best by a wide margin...any resistor is a mess...
And this is the wire version of a fifo/dac/clock.
It would be EXTREMLY COOL if Andrea have a serious look into the source of all of that.
...The streamer...
with the same integration level as niw between fifo and dac(I mean...customized protocol... calibration ?!?.WTF...how cool is that)...and the clocks integrated...Linux/Mpd as Basis...this would be a dream...so I can throw my Alix 1D/Sotm Usb-card into retirement
But the longer I look into it...the picture of a wire is describing it best...if you ever compare the sound of resistors...wirewounds...metal...carbon...z-foils...AN tantalum(any version silver etc)...and finally a piece of copper wire (with a ferrite) as a grid stopper...the effect is very similar...the wire is simply best by a wide margin...any resistor is a mess...
And this is the wire version of a fifo/dac/clock.
It would be EXTREMLY COOL if Andrea have a serious look into the source of all of that.
...The streamer...
with the same integration level as niw between fifo and dac(I mean...customized protocol... calibration ?!?.WTF...how cool is that)...and the clocks integrated...Linux/Mpd as Basis...this would be a dream...so I can throw my Alix 1D/Sotm Usb-card into retirement
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Yeah...Manganin as having the highest copper content of any restistor material...but still...100% copper is better than 82%...and OCC better etc...so, in my reference setup I dont really use any resistors at all as even with commercial manganin resistor have ptentially some kind of end caps, leads etc...each time a new material mix
I still try to figure out why this Alix 1D board with sotm sounds so good and beats anything I tried (which was a lot)...because I would love to go to a more modern hardware and software or even a better source ? But sofar not luck...Even a completely Allo Usb signature with full Ian fifo, Pulsar clocks, battery supply...nope. Did not make it.
I still try to figure out why this Alix 1D board with sotm sounds so good and beats anything I tried (which was a lot)...because I would love to go to a more modern hardware and software or even a better source ? But sofar not luck...Even a completely Allo Usb signature with full Ian fifo, Pulsar clocks, battery supply...nope. Did not make it.
Hi Blitz & wlowes,
Interesting thread & observations you share - thanks
Just a brief comment in relation to this:
Undoubtedly there are many experiences but I prefer the Charcroft CAR Z-foils (SQ-wise very much different than e.g. the S102s - positively so IMHO) for higher value resistances whereas I have had a very pleasant success SQ-wise with using 0.03 mm diameter 24k gold wire as loudspeaker resistors - particularly in front of the tweeter (Scan-Speak Revelator). Sort of rounds off much harshness, is very open sounding, and somehow lends a beauty to instruments, however odd this may sound. And compared with copper wire it does not oxidize. Appr. 0.32 ohms per cm.
One limitation though is its power rating but to my memory it is nevertheless a comfortable ~ 5 - 6 watts. This depends on how it is "housed" and connected, though.
Cheers,
Jesper
Interesting thread & observations you share - thanks
Just a brief comment in relation to this:
Undoubtedly there are many experiences but I prefer the Charcroft CAR Z-foils (SQ-wise very much different than e.g. the S102s - positively so IMHO) for higher value resistances whereas I have had a very pleasant success SQ-wise with using 0.03 mm diameter 24k gold wire as loudspeaker resistors - particularly in front of the tweeter (Scan-Speak Revelator). Sort of rounds off much harshness, is very open sounding, and somehow lends a beauty to instruments, however odd this may sound. And compared with copper wire it does not oxidize. Appr. 0.32 ohms per cm.
One limitation though is its power rating but to my memory it is nevertheless a comfortable ~ 5 - 6 watts. This depends on how it is "housed" and connected, though.
Cheers,
Jesper
Agree...Z-foils are a bit more musical/tonal richer while s102 give the typically WW sound...sparkling...but a bit thinner...interesting hint on gold cable, thx for that, need to try that...
I use a thin piece of copper wire to drop my filament xformer to the needed level on the AC-side...1.3A at 7.5V...does not even get warm...before anything would burn it needs to get hot...surprising how much reserve those thin cables have
I use a lot of chokes, IT, OPT, HF-BEards (FR3) so resistors can omitted with my type of tubes...so lots of wires...but 100%Copper OFC, many OCC.
But back to the subject: FIFO/DAC...
Andrea sends me this week a second Drixo-Kit, so I can build the 6.x frequency with the Drixo now...and will continue to work finishing the PSU-Variations...and and ...to many projects
I use a thin piece of copper wire to drop my filament xformer to the needed level on the AC-side...1.3A at 7.5V...does not even get warm...before anything would burn it needs to get hot...surprising how much reserve those thin cables have
I use a lot of chokes, IT, OPT, HF-BEards (FR3) so resistors can omitted with my type of tubes...so lots of wires...but 100%Copper OFC, many OCC.
But back to the subject: FIFO/DAC...
Andrea sends me this week a second Drixo-Kit, so I can build the 6.x frequency with the Drixo now...and will continue to work finishing the PSU-Variations...and and ...to many projects
Well, I did not yet test, but in the last 20years the source was always clearly audible, no matter what the next fifo after it was...high quality input somehow is always better...but i will xcheck here as well...in theory my Bluesound Nt130 shall sound as good as my ALIX?.I ll try later...but unlikely...would be glad if that happens...much more comfortable software
earlier we saw the sdcard turn table with 10mhz clock...yes, these type of players are rumored to be best, so I guess the colleague uses this not as he loves to play with sdcards...
But a bit more convenience is what I aim for...
earlier we saw the sdcard turn table with 10mhz clock...yes, these type of players are rumored to be best, so I guess the colleague uses this not as he loves to play with sdcards...
But a bit more convenience is what I aim for...
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Sources have always had major impact to me aswell, always.
When I get I my hands on the DAC lite+FIFO one of the most important tests will be:
PC > XMOS USB to toslink > toslink to i2s > FIFo lite
vs
SD player > FIFO lite
Andrea thinks his FIFO should be practically* independent from source (*if FIFO lite was perfect there would be no need for the more elaborate 'top' version of FIFO he mentioned is in the works).
I was sceptical, still am, but he strengthened his case a whole lot after demonstrating, with PN measurements, some of the issues with Ian's FIFOs, which would help to explain why people were reporting they could still hear influence from the source with them.
Ian revised his FIFOs and offered some add-ons after that, but without new PN measurements there is no reason to believe any of those original issues were even resolved.
At the same time there is no reason believe source influence can be entirely correlated to PN measurements.
PN gives us an even better insight into what's actually going on but I have to think that they are still another form 'steady state' or average-over-time measurement and might not catch some very complex, real time effects and behaviours when jittery signal enters the FIFO, jitter that is likely to be constantly morphing and changing depending on activity in the pc, noise on supply and so on.
SD card is an absolute PITA to use in all aspects, if FIFO lite can eliminate the majority of source influence using PC the rest can be forgiven.
I imagine seperating source with a long toslink cable should help make FIFOs job somewhat easier.
When I get I my hands on the DAC lite+FIFO one of the most important tests will be:
PC > XMOS USB to toslink > toslink to i2s > FIFo lite
vs
SD player > FIFO lite
Andrea thinks his FIFO should be practically* independent from source (*if FIFO lite was perfect there would be no need for the more elaborate 'top' version of FIFO he mentioned is in the works).
I was sceptical, still am, but he strengthened his case a whole lot after demonstrating, with PN measurements, some of the issues with Ian's FIFOs, which would help to explain why people were reporting they could still hear influence from the source with them.
Ian revised his FIFOs and offered some add-ons after that, but without new PN measurements there is no reason to believe any of those original issues were even resolved.
At the same time there is no reason believe source influence can be entirely correlated to PN measurements.
PN gives us an even better insight into what's actually going on but I have to think that they are still another form 'steady state' or average-over-time measurement and might not catch some very complex, real time effects and behaviours when jittery signal enters the FIFO, jitter that is likely to be constantly morphing and changing depending on activity in the pc, noise on supply and so on.
SD card is an absolute PITA to use in all aspects, if FIFO lite can eliminate the majority of source influence using PC the rest can be forgiven.
I imagine seperating source with a long toslink cable should help make FIFOs job somewhat easier.
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I have suspected even with optical isolation, and galvanically isolated mains (no earthing), that disturbances on mains AC caused by the PC could still make it way through the power transformers in FIFO/DAC and influence it on some level, laptop on battery would obviously address that.
You still have unrelated mains disturbances and for consistent peak performance in FIFO/DAC you probably need batteries there aswell.
I have always noticed major changes in how all systems sound depending on time, day etc.
always hard to tell how much of if it psychological and real but the difference can be pretty extreme sometimes and there is a clear pattern of better sound at very late or very early hours, times when you'd expect activity on national grid to be lowest.
With enough care and filtering in mains supply I would hope the effect could be made insignificant enough not to have deal with hassle of batteries
You still have unrelated mains disturbances and for consistent peak performance in FIFO/DAC you probably need batteries there aswell.
I have always noticed major changes in how all systems sound depending on time, day etc.
always hard to tell how much of if it psychological and real but the difference can be pretty extreme sometimes and there is a clear pattern of better sound at very late or very early hours, times when you'd expect activity on national grid to be lowest.
With enough care and filtering in mains supply I would hope the effect could be made insignificant enough not to have deal with hassle of batteries
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@lasercut: Hi ... interesting comments & thoughts you share.
As it is I have actually been wondering why an FIFO would/should have such a positive effect ... While I recognise that an FIFO may shift the incoming data stream to another point in time on the output (like e.g. in the TWTMC FIFO, as I understand it) as I see it this may mainly cause the input data to be time-wise uncorrelated with the output data.
However, if there somehow is an "electrical influence/coupling" between the input & the output of the FIFO (or the FIFO for some reason adds its own processing noise structure) then one may - due to this time shift - have a point(s) in time where the input data are noisy (e.g. many data level transitions) and the output data experience less data transitions. I reckon this could be unfeasible due to PCB GND disturbances, increased PSU noise etc. ...
On the other hand if there is not an "electrical influence/coupling" between the input & output of the FIFO (or the FIFO for some reason does not add its own processing noise structure) then increasing or decreasing the time distance between the incoming data (the FIFO "buffer") should not cause any SQ difference. I.e. the different buffer lengths in e.g. the TWTMC FIFO should not lead to different SQ impressions ...
Which leads me to my point which is that if the electrical isolation between the incoming clock & data (from the PC/data player) really is efficient (e.g. well-designed optical isolation and re-clocking) then I cannot see that the FIFO would necessarily add isolation ..? It may change the structure of the "input data to output data" electrical coupling but since an FIFO necessarily also in practice contains ICs with a small size (i.e. crosstalk, PCB trace currents influencing eachother, and IC inter-pin crosstalk) then such ICs may also couple signal from input to output - as other ICs do.
With this in mind: My guess would be that what really may matter is to isolate the data input from the data output, phase noise & other noise-wise, - using ICs and PSU structures that make this happen. And in this context an FIFO would be equally vulnerable to such a design not being executed "feasibly" - as is a more "common" isolation and re-clocking design.
I have had these thoughts as well, yet have not remembered them when communicating with Andrea. Would be interesting to have some light shed on this ...
Cheers,
Jesper
... interesting comments & thoughts you share.As it is I have actually been wondering why an FIFO would/should have such a positive effect ... While I recognise that an FIFO may shift the incoming data stream to another point in time on the output (like e.g. in the TWTMC FIFO, as I understand it) as I see it this may mainly cause the input data to be time-wise uncorrelated with the output data.
However, if there somehow is an "electrical influence/coupling" between the input & the output of the FIFO (or the FIFO for some reason adds its own processing noise structure) then one may - due to this time shift - have a point(s) in time where the input data are noisy (e.g. many data level transitions) and the output data experience less data transitions. I reckon this could be unfeasible due to PCB GND disturbances, increased PSU noise etc. ...
On the other hand if there is not an "electrical influence/coupling" between the input & output of the FIFO (or the FIFO for some reason does not add its own processing noise structure) then increasing or decreasing the time distance between the incoming data (the FIFO "buffer") should not cause any SQ difference. I.e. the different buffer lengths in e.g. the TWTMC FIFO should not lead to different SQ impressions ...
Which leads me to my point which is that if the electrical isolation between the incoming clock & data (from the PC/data player) really is efficient (e.g. well-designed optical isolation and re-clocking) then I cannot see that the FIFO would necessarily add isolation ..? It may change the structure of the "input data to output data" electrical coupling but since an FIFO necessarily also in practice contains ICs with a small size (i.e. crosstalk, PCB trace currents influencing eachother, and IC inter-pin crosstalk) then such ICs may also couple signal from input to output - as other ICs do.
With this in mind: My guess would be that what really may matter is to isolate the data input from the data output, phase noise & other noise-wise, - using ICs and PSU structures that make this happen. And in this context an FIFO would be equally vulnerable to such a design not being executed "feasibly" - as is a more "common" isolation and re-clocking design.
I have had these thoughts as well, yet have not remembered them when communicating with Andrea. Would be interesting to have some light shed on this ...
Cheers,
Jesper
Boys,It would be more constructive to post your Technical reviews and suggestions On the Andréa forum ,In fact the designer could participate