Thank you for your very interesting observations. I was aware of some issues but by far not all.
Not that it makes any difference but from what i remember it was not the enable pins on the clocks that were commutated, but rather the PS ground return
The CPLD reclocking, i believe, is implemented in V3 of the board. My boards are older and use 74_574 D-ffs. Got to compare the new and old boards and decided against upgrading, but it wasn't a very straightforward decision.
I am in the process to finish my Andrea Mori - Setup and compare it with my Soekris Dam1941 setup...so, it will consist of fifo, dac-lite, exo and driscoll at 5.x crystal and later battery supply.
I wanted it as a learning experience, so starting with
I will start even intentially with crystek clocks 957 and than move to andreas exo and than to driscoll just to see what does what and report. once i see if driscoll or exo sound different, i will order the next batch of boards and give the 6.x crystal to the winner.
i will in parallel upgrade the power supply, so any thoughts on
For today, I seek advice on the usb to i2s input board:
what is the latest greatest if you only want pcm ? i use to like waveio quiet a bit, than dam1941 got the xmos included...now ten years passed by...i2soverusb is the latest greatest ?
I guess when you, Peter is on that board, its a pretty good sign...
I wanted it as a learning experience, so starting with
- 5V and 7V powered by Ultrabib
- 3.3V and 15V powered by DiyinHk lownoise modules
- xformer all potted el two chamber types
I will start even intentially with crystek clocks 957 and than move to andreas exo and than to driscoll just to see what does what and report. once i see if driscoll or exo sound different, i will order the next batch of boards and give the 6.x crystal to the winner.
i will in parallel upgrade the power supply, so any thoughts on
- powering of the usb board ? From the fifo power out or separate ?
- two chamber el types vs. r-core are appreciate
- ultrabib vs. r-reflektor or other regs
- ian's oven kit for Andreas clocks ?
For today, I seek advice on the usb to i2s input board:
what is the latest greatest if you only want pcm ? i use to like waveio quiet a bit, than dam1941 got the xmos included...now ten years passed by...i2soverusb is the latest greatest ?
I guess when you, Peter is on that board, its a pretty good sign...
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Some delicate solderingSligolad,
How did you connect the UFL cable at the Fifo input
The Fifo Lite has been installed since yesterday,I will also publish my impression,huge upgrade,
like Sligolad,beyond my expectations big big surprise.
Thank Andrea goal achieved.
just to get me up and running quickly rather than using the supplied connector, will use a more robust setup later before I move it to a case. Great to hear another pleased customer discovering the fruits of Andreas work Great write up Sligolad - thanks for taking the time.Another satisfied customer
Two questions if I may...
- Do you have a part number for the Uf.L adapters you've used on the I2s input of the FIFO board? Or, are they home-brew?
- Which USB to IS2 converter did you order?
All the best as ever,
Crom
Hi Crom, the cables from the SD player to the I2S inputs come on the player and I just soldered some of the little surface mount connectors on the pins, would not recommend it and cutting the normal terminated UFL cables and soldering direct might be a better long term solution, but anyway the connectors are listed below.
If you meant the adaptors and cables from the clocks to the FIFO then I have listed these also.
U,FL jack connectors from Mouser https://www.mouser.ie/ProductDetail/798-U.FL-R-SMT10
RF Adapters - Between Series SMA Plug to MHF/ U.FL Jack Adapter (expensive buggers) from Mouser https://www.mouser.ie/ProductDetail/712-ADP-SMAM-UFLF
SMA Male to U.FL Jack Cable Using 1.37mm Coax from superbat https://www.rfsupplier.com/sma-male-to-ufl-jack-cable-using-137mm-coax-rohs_p6425.html
L.K.S Audio USB-100 Audio Interface I2S-E I2S-H from AliExpress https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001417375743.html?spm=a2g0o.order_detail.0.0.3cfef19cMYSxG0
Thank you. I was talking about the uf.l sockets on top of the is2 input pins of the fifo. Hand soldered...a steady hand! I've chopped off the ends of Uf.l leads when I had a waveio card and soldered the cables to the pins. They always broke in the end but I might try again with thicker uf.l cables. Might have to ask Andrea to provide alternative input socketry if his board ever gets revised.
I am in the process to integrate the i2soverusb with Andrea's fifo...I am a bit new to i2soverusb board, let me see if I got it right from here:
http://jlsounds.com/uploads/I2SoverUSB v.III.pdf
So, if I got it right the configuration is:
"I2S like protocols on board oscillators
AK4490, AK4493, AK4495, AK4497 and all DACs in I2S like protocols.
On MCLK_out_1 (H3.7) pin, one will have 22.5792MHz/ 24.576MHz MCLK."
...which leads to...fundamental I2S-Config is basicall Jumper B1 and Jumper B3, thats it. Powering of the clean side separately over H3.17 and H3.19. OK.
Connection scheme I2S (I2SOVERUSB-FIFO):
H3.11(BCLK_I2S) - BCK
H3.13(DATA_I2S) - DATA
H3.15(LR_CLK_I2S ) - LRCK
Two Questions:
http://jlsounds.com/uploads/I2SoverUSB v.III.pdf
So, if I got it right the configuration is:
"I2S like protocols on board oscillators
AK4490, AK4493, AK4495, AK4497 and all DACs in I2S like protocols.
On MCLK_out_1 (H3.7) pin, one will have 22.5792MHz/ 24.576MHz MCLK."
...which leads to...fundamental I2S-Config is basicall Jumper B1 and Jumper B3, thats it. Powering of the clean side separately over H3.17 and H3.19. OK.
Connection scheme I2S (I2SOVERUSB-FIFO):
H3.11(BCLK_I2S) - BCK
H3.13(DATA_I2S) - DATA
H3.15(LR_CLK_I2S ) - LRCK
Two Questions:
- What about MCK-Input for the Fifo ? Needed for the FIFO ? I guess if yes, it would be as written above: H3.7 (MCLK_out_1 Output General purpose for MCLK_1) of the ISOVERUSB ...?
- There are three Groundconnections / Cables at the connector of the FIFO...why three ? Is One connected to the I2SOverUSB card not enough ?
I was interested to try this board but not got around to ordering yet.
I wanted to try it because you can feed the mclk from the fifo. In the pdf you attached look at H3 header pin 3.
The FIFO does not need or use the USB board MCLK.
Also, I2S signals are RF. Each signal line should be paired with its own ground wire. One example of a reasonably good approach to wiring is attached below.
Attachments
Mark, thanks a lot...that helps...surprised about the grounding logic, i am always a bit scared for ground loops, but now I will try as you suggested.
Crom, At some point I might try as I am using currently the same crystek 22.x/24.x im the fifo...my approach is always to start with the most standard setup and than start to improve...but as I use im the end 5/6 mhz clocks, this is not a lomg term option really...
update...applied as suggested by Mark..no MCK connection to fifo and twisted pairs for the rest...
Crom, At some point I might try as I am using currently the same crystek 22.x/24.x im the fifo...my approach is always to start with the most standard setup and than start to improve...but as I use im the end 5/6 mhz clocks, this is not a lomg term option really...
update...applied as suggested by Mark..no MCK connection to fifo and twisted pairs for the rest...
Attachments
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OK, mine is up and running...I will let it burn in now for at least 24h...and than start to do listen more seriously...intentionally I start small with Crystek clocks and than improve the setup step by step. But the first 5 min from the cold start sounded already very promising...very analog, soft and high resolution...more on the warmer side but with hig resolution...very natural...but its too early to really judge...nothing is burned in.
I am as well curious if the magnitude of the Vref voltage level will make a difference in sound...right now I am at 5V to get the max amplitude out...might go down to 4V and see how that sounds (besides not as loud...). But if the hypothesis is true that the sound is highly dependant on the qualtiy of Vref...nice area to do experiments with...different regs...or even maybe pure passive LCLC ?
I am as well curious if the magnitude of the Vref voltage level will make a difference in sound...right now I am at 5V to get the max amplitude out...might go down to 4V and see how that sounds (besides not as loud...). But if the hypothesis is true that the sound is highly dependant on the qualtiy of Vref...nice area to do experiments with...different regs...or even maybe pure passive LCLC ?
The FIFO Lite is installed in the DAC (Audio GD-PCM 1704K), The source is a Odroid C2/Volumio,the Fifo is powered by 1 Reflektor-D for the 7V and 2 Reflektor/ UcConditioner for the 3,3V, Modulus 386 Amplifier - Bryston BHA 1 Preamp, F.H Speaker, Sennheiser HD 800.
The Fifo exploit all the potential of the clock board TWTMC-DRIXO-11/12 MHz, I now have a quality source,
I was surprised by the quality of the Andrea Fifo, I did not expect such an improvement,I rediscover discs that I have known for dozens of years,The cymbals are super well defined,The medium is ample never aggressive,The bass is like on a master's band,super dynamic.
Andrea you succeeded in your bet with FIFO LITE,thank you.
The Fifo exploit all the potential of the clock board TWTMC-DRIXO-11/12 MHz, I now have a quality source,
I was surprised by the quality of the Andrea Fifo, I did not expect such an improvement,I rediscover discs that I have known for dozens of years,The cymbals are super well defined,The medium is ample never aggressive,The bass is like on a master's band,super dynamic.
Andrea you succeeded in your bet with FIFO LITE,thank you.
That looks like a very nice, clean build...congratulations...! Mine is still on a breadboard and burning in...one question: I used ultrabib nearly everywhere as I had them on hand...Reflektor vs ultrabib in this application...any opinions /advises ?
it is interesting to see how Andrea's Fifo/Dac will compare once its burned in to the Soekris dam1941 (no, it did not surpassed Soekriś DAC yet...lack of bass and some rough edges in the trebles, but very nice transparency in a natural way, deep room and lots microdetails)...For sure its a bit like two sisters of the same family, not saying they sound the same at all, but they have a similar character in reproduction of dynamics and I am pretty sure that Andreas version is very sensitive to the power supply you give it as no regs on board...which is great in my view as this gives us a playground to learn.
I will for sure give it in the end a LC raw supply at least, maybe even try pasive lclc...Lt4320 and germanium diodes like with the Soekris and see how transparent Andreas DAC reacts to it...
...and I might order the dam1021 kit from Andrea and a latest version dam1021 from soekris as I suspect it might be that I do like the flexibilty of the Soekris filter banks and TNTs filter work...in the beginning i asked myself why anyone would order this as the DAC board of Andrea is not that prohibitive expensive and you could go straight from the Dam1021 to Andreas DAC, but i think now it could be very interesting.
it is interesting to see how Andrea's Fifo/Dac will compare once its burned in to the Soekris dam1941 (no, it did not surpassed Soekriś DAC yet...lack of bass and some rough edges in the trebles, but very nice transparency in a natural way, deep room and lots microdetails)...For sure its a bit like two sisters of the same family, not saying they sound the same at all, but they have a similar character in reproduction of dynamics and I am pretty sure that Andreas version is very sensitive to the power supply you give it as no regs on board...which is great in my view as this gives us a playground to learn.
I will for sure give it in the end a LC raw supply at least, maybe even try pasive lclc...Lt4320 and germanium diodes like with the Soekris and see how transparent Andreas DAC reacts to it...
...and I might order the dam1021 kit from Andrea and a latest version dam1021 from soekris as I suspect it might be that I do like the flexibilty of the Soekris filter banks and TNTs filter work...in the beginning i asked myself why anyone would order this as the DAC board of Andrea is not that prohibitive expensive and you could go straight from the Dam1021 to Andreas DAC, but i think now it could be very interesting.
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Thanks Sligolad for your feed back. Kind of a milestone in digital audio. Finally, someone with a well known and respected audio system comparing digital playback to well known analogue sources and reporting parity or even preference in subjective SQ for the digital source.Another satisfied customer
The result….well incredible, beyond my expectations!
I have been skeptical that digital audio could ever match my reference Studer A812 with master tape copies and also a good vinyl setup with UHQR 45 rpm vinyl, but what I am hearing now has laid to rest that skepticism.
That rich midrange that ¼ inch 30 IPS master tape copies adds is now matched and even added to in the higher frequencies with this digital setup.
I have gotten close with Lampizator and Meitner DACs and more recently on several group DAC builds with various incarnations of your clocks and Lifepo4 / Supercap supplies, but I could never match that rich midrange when compared to Tape.
The end of my playback chain has the DAC lite feeding direct into a Gryphon Essence Preamplifier then to Gryphon Essence Mono’s into Wilson Audio Alexia 2’s with no buffer or caps for low pass filtering on the DAC output.
Sad to say the Tape and Vinyl will now take a back seat for those reference listening sessions when you want to be transported to other places but I am sure they will get occasional outings for the sake of nostalgia.
Many thanks again Andrea.
Thanks for listing out your playback chain and experience with previous sources. It provides a useful perspective. And congratulations on building a great audio system. I look forward to your impressions as your new source matures.
Thats cool. Not something I've seen, but I don't get around much.
For me I often hear someone saying their thing beats this or that. And that's fine. What I have not heard is someone with electronics at the level of Griffen and speakers in the realm of Alexia 2's compare Lampizator or Metrum vs Studer or vinyl and say the digital side was more pleasurable. Often hear it's really good in this dpt or that but still for critical listening back to analogue. I don't challenge your knowledge just expressing my appreciation to Sligolad for sharing details of his setup that led to this subjective impression.
For me I often hear someone saying their thing beats this or that. And that's fine. What I have not heard is someone with electronics at the level of Griffen and speakers in the realm of Alexia 2's compare Lampizator or Metrum vs Studer or vinyl and say the digital side was more pleasurable. Often hear it's really good in this dpt or that but still for critical listening back to analogue. I don't challenge your knowledge just expressing my appreciation to Sligolad for sharing details of his setup that led to this subjective impression.
Thanks Blitz,
My construction is not over,Sma bulkhead/coax cable,power wiring in the DAC.
To take full advantage of FIFO I advise you to add the best clocks to him,DRIXO would be ideal.
It seems to me that Andréa has removed the dam1021 kit.........!!!!!
For the preference between Reflektor and UltraBib,I share the comment from Merlin El Mago that I had kept in my notes,
Originally Posted by merlin el mago
With IRF610 the SQ is a lot less better than with Reflektor-D or BiB, powering Chronus 5V re-clocker, it's interesting the sound signature between Reflektor-D (more air, transparent and better highs) vs BiB (more mids & bass) depending your taste you can chose your poison.
Changed the IRF610 for IRF530, now is sounding wonderful so is the keeper powering the Chronus re-clocker, about SQ have the strong bass with transparency, mids are perfect and better than BiB & Reflektor-D, the highs it's near near the Reflektor-D, it's the most musical of the 3 regulators.
My construction is not over,Sma bulkhead/coax cable,power wiring in the DAC.
To take full advantage of FIFO I advise you to add the best clocks to him,DRIXO would be ideal.
It seems to me that Andréa has removed the dam1021 kit.........!!!!!
For the preference between Reflektor and UltraBib,I share the comment from Merlin El Mago that I had kept in my notes,
Originally Posted by merlin el mago
With IRF610 the SQ is a lot less better than with Reflektor-D or BiB, powering Chronus 5V re-clocker, it's interesting the sound signature between Reflektor-D (more air, transparent and better highs) vs BiB (more mids & bass) depending your taste you can chose your poison.
Changed the IRF610 for IRF530, now is sounding wonderful so is the keeper powering the Chronus re-clocker, about SQ have the strong bass with transparency, mids are perfect and better than BiB & Reflektor-D, the highs it's near near the Reflektor-D, it's the most musical of the 3 regulators.
Sounds great...but what was exactly the third option after BiB and Reflektor-D ?
The burni in process is fully happening...now getting more and more to Soekris level...I guess I let it play for a week or two and than really go back to DAM1941 for comparison and than upgrade the clock...just finished the Drixo 5.x this weekend...btw...can i substitute the lnd150 smd with a to-93 part for Andreas Regs ? Lnd150 in Smd is not available anywhere...
The burni in process is fully happening...now getting more and more to Soekris level...I guess I let it play for a week or two and than really go back to DAM1941 for comparison and than upgrade the clock...just finished the Drixo 5.x this weekend...btw...can i substitute the lnd150 smd with a to-93 part for Andreas Regs ? Lnd150 in Smd is not available anywhere...