I see you are surrounded by trees, is that why you are using metal to build your house? Like a lot of Europeans I couldn't believe that virtually all the houses built in heavily wooded land right through the West Coast were timber and all that was left was the stone/brick chimney breasts and will probably be built of the same material.
I also found it hard to believe that aercrete blocks are unknown in USA/Canada, invented by a Swedish architect in 1924. 1/3rd the weight of dense concrete, which are great for boundary/garden walls but crap for building houses etc. Fireproof/insect proof with superb thermal and acoustic insulation values and load bearing to three stories. First worked with these in 79/80 in the Netherlands, wouldn't consider building my own home with anything else.
First tried to move to France from the UK in 89 but had my father to think about, couldn't leave him with a sister who I couldn't describe on this forum. In a way it's good because in your 40s you don't realise
that you won't have the same physical capabilities when your in your 70s. I see your wife has the same problems as mine, again something I couldn't foresee just 4 years ago. Long distance walking was our thing and France has to be the very best country in Europe for that with it's superb Grand Randonnees. Like you I cannot leave her alone, your DNA/ADN will always find you out.
Always intended building a single story/bungalow type house, stairs aren't good for the elderly or for young families and make maintenance easy. €30-40K will buy the land with planning consents. Raft foundations were always part of my plans and in the Tarn, clay or marl clay is the norm. Lots of houses in France are built on clay and the climate change has exposed the stupidity and cheapskating of foundations - lots of modern houses have structural problems right across France. Lightweight aercrete blocks and raft foundations means my house will not have those problems long after I'm gone. Using a waterproofing compound in the concrete for foundations and building off the ground means zero damp problems. Reinforced concrete flooring plates dropped in by crane mean absolutely flat floors, battens with insulation added and oak flooring (if I splash out). internal walls of 15cm aercrete blocks will give privacy to all rooms. By not using a hard plaster finish to the walls (completely unnecessary) means quiet rooms with no ringing - skim coat any minor defects in the block construction, size and crossline with 1400 grade lining paper.
Not interested in using large picture windows. If there's any chance of violent storms and flying debris these can be destroyed and can literally create huge wind pressures in a house taking out ceilings and roofs ergo house collapse. All my south facing windows will have exterior double skinned polyester sun protection which I have designed myself, not cheap to have made but mean no a/c is required. No living accommodation will have north elevation. I would advised anyone living in Europe/Scandinavia to check out aercrete blocks using the 'thin joint' method of construction. In France builders are allowed to not use mortar on the perps/perpendicular face of blocks, totally outrageous and wouldn't be allowed anywhere in other European countries.
I don't want a big house, that just means more work. Along with my cousin and my friend Jean-Luc we will do all the blockwork and fitting out. Forgot to mention, A metal roof, much less weight and fireproof. Something that is never built into house designs, properly constructed dry and wet larders, food should never be kept in the kitchen. I have costed out my design and it should come in @ €80-90K - I couldn't buy a garage back where I lived for that in the UK - totally insane prices, the same as in Australia and New Zealand. The crash of 89/90 will be as nothing to whats' coming.
I also found it hard to believe that aercrete blocks are unknown in USA/Canada, invented by a Swedish architect in 1924. 1/3rd the weight of dense concrete, which are great for boundary/garden walls but crap for building houses etc. Fireproof/insect proof with superb thermal and acoustic insulation values and load bearing to three stories. First worked with these in 79/80 in the Netherlands, wouldn't consider building my own home with anything else.
First tried to move to France from the UK in 89 but had my father to think about, couldn't leave him with a sister who I couldn't describe on this forum. In a way it's good because in your 40s you don't realise
that you won't have the same physical capabilities when your in your 70s. I see your wife has the same problems as mine, again something I couldn't foresee just 4 years ago. Long distance walking was our thing and France has to be the very best country in Europe for that with it's superb Grand Randonnees. Like you I cannot leave her alone, your DNA/ADN will always find you out.
Always intended building a single story/bungalow type house, stairs aren't good for the elderly or for young families and make maintenance easy. €30-40K will buy the land with planning consents. Raft foundations were always part of my plans and in the Tarn, clay or marl clay is the norm. Lots of houses in France are built on clay and the climate change has exposed the stupidity and cheapskating of foundations - lots of modern houses have structural problems right across France. Lightweight aercrete blocks and raft foundations means my house will not have those problems long after I'm gone. Using a waterproofing compound in the concrete for foundations and building off the ground means zero damp problems. Reinforced concrete flooring plates dropped in by crane mean absolutely flat floors, battens with insulation added and oak flooring (if I splash out). internal walls of 15cm aercrete blocks will give privacy to all rooms. By not using a hard plaster finish to the walls (completely unnecessary) means quiet rooms with no ringing - skim coat any minor defects in the block construction, size and crossline with 1400 grade lining paper.
Not interested in using large picture windows. If there's any chance of violent storms and flying debris these can be destroyed and can literally create huge wind pressures in a house taking out ceilings and roofs ergo house collapse. All my south facing windows will have exterior double skinned polyester sun protection which I have designed myself, not cheap to have made but mean no a/c is required. No living accommodation will have north elevation. I would advised anyone living in Europe/Scandinavia to check out aercrete blocks using the 'thin joint' method of construction. In France builders are allowed to not use mortar on the perps/perpendicular face of blocks, totally outrageous and wouldn't be allowed anywhere in other European countries.
I don't want a big house, that just means more work. Along with my cousin and my friend Jean-Luc we will do all the blockwork and fitting out. Forgot to mention, A metal roof, much less weight and fireproof. Something that is never built into house designs, properly constructed dry and wet larders, food should never be kept in the kitchen. I have costed out my design and it should come in @ €80-90K - I couldn't buy a garage back where I lived for that in the UK - totally insane prices, the same as in Australia and New Zealand. The crash of 89/90 will be as nothing to whats' coming.
“Being surrounded by trees” was pretty much to ensure that the place is out of view from the highway. Keeps noise down, and unwanted “guests” to a minimum. I’ll have to resist the temptation to put up a Christmas light display that can be seen from space, though.
The metal “barndominuim“ is just a more DIY-friendly approach to building. With conventional construction, almost nobody does “shell” projects - where the contractor does all the heavy lifting and leave all that expen$$ive finish work for the owner to do himself. But that’s how barndo’s were intended to be - you get an empty metal building that’s completely dried in and you can camp out in it as long as it takes to finish. Nowadays many Barndo builders don‘t even do that - they have so much work lined up all they want to do are high profit margin turn keys. The outfit that originally sold up the mobile home hooked us up with the local guys who do all the commercial buildings, and they were willing to play ball. I just didn’t have the three quarter mill up front it would have taken to do a turn key. Not without selling the old place first, but I need some place to go before doing that. I already had some experience with metal buildings - there is one there now at my old place (the shop).
There is still plenty of wood inside one when it’s done. All the internal framing. You end up double framing the outside walls - 4” red iron, with 4” of spray foam insulation and the typical 2x4’s inside. With another 4” of fiberglass between those. 2x10’s for ceiling joists - and plenty of attic space because the cost to go to 12 ft high walls in steel is trivially more than only 8 or 10. I think you end up spending the same money in the end, but you don’t have to come up with the whole sum all at once and you get a more energy efficient product. It can be done on the CHEAP if you absolutely have to. Some people do the metal building kits themselves too - one of our neighbors did that with his shop. It took him and his people a year to do, though. The inside is still ongoing. Handling several-ton I-beams isn’t something you’d catch me doing. I can deal with 20 foot SYP 2x10’s but that’s about as far as it goes.
The metal “barndominuim“ is just a more DIY-friendly approach to building. With conventional construction, almost nobody does “shell” projects - where the contractor does all the heavy lifting and leave all that expen$$ive finish work for the owner to do himself. But that’s how barndo’s were intended to be - you get an empty metal building that’s completely dried in and you can camp out in it as long as it takes to finish. Nowadays many Barndo builders don‘t even do that - they have so much work lined up all they want to do are high profit margin turn keys. The outfit that originally sold up the mobile home hooked us up with the local guys who do all the commercial buildings, and they were willing to play ball. I just didn’t have the three quarter mill up front it would have taken to do a turn key. Not without selling the old place first, but I need some place to go before doing that. I already had some experience with metal buildings - there is one there now at my old place (the shop).
There is still plenty of wood inside one when it’s done. All the internal framing. You end up double framing the outside walls - 4” red iron, with 4” of spray foam insulation and the typical 2x4’s inside. With another 4” of fiberglass between those. 2x10’s for ceiling joists - and plenty of attic space because the cost to go to 12 ft high walls in steel is trivially more than only 8 or 10. I think you end up spending the same money in the end, but you don’t have to come up with the whole sum all at once and you get a more energy efficient product. It can be done on the CHEAP if you absolutely have to. Some people do the metal building kits themselves too - one of our neighbors did that with his shop. It took him and his people a year to do, though. The inside is still ongoing. Handling several-ton I-beams isn’t something you’d catch me doing. I can deal with 20 foot SYP 2x10’s but that’s about as far as it goes.
We rebuilt our house from '97 to '00. Took down walls, dug foundations, it was a rebuild, not a remodel. Phew. We rode the NASDAQ and finished before the crash of 00.
I offered my wife that we move out, two kids, one dog and two adults to a nearby two bedroom apartment but she thought it was wasted money.
Hmmm..
So we did it in three phases... moving within the house. The last "move" was when we redid the kitchen. I had the contractor "build"
a kitchen in the garage... double sinks, dishwasher, large fridge/freezer, four big burner propane camping stove, garbage disposal, microwave, "island", the old kitchen cabinets... you name it. My wife was upset but I got my two neighbor to convince her that it was a lot better than washing dishes in the tub as they had done when their kitchens were rebuilt. I mean, we had a dishwasher for cryin' out loud.. a Bosch.
Any how, it cost more to build in three phases, but it brought the family together. Even as it almost killed me once when I was driven to my doctor's office with a 105 fever ( The day before I had the flu, but that night a pesky rain was leaking onto the brand new floor of the kitchen... and I was outdoors tearing old stucco to patch the hole.... needless to say, I got really wet and cold..). He sent me to ER.
We did put our good stuff and furniture into storage for three years. My "closet" was two feet wide.
The kids had a great time, for them it was an adventure. They were under 10.
Not moving out, cost us more time and money as we had to work around the living quarters and redo and undo stuff ( the garage kitchen was not cheap ).
But the end result is a house that is built specifically for our needs and wants. At 2700 sq feet, 5b/3ba it feels larger than my sister's 3400 sq foot home. We have no wasted spaces. I won't bother with the details, but we spent tons of money on quality framing, insulation, plumbing, electrical, networking, HVAC, etc. Overkill.
And we framed it with a 600 sq foot second story deck that holds a pool.... one of the above ground... 10 foot round x 32 inches tall. Don't ask the design details, but it was fun working with the engineer and see the structure being built. The contractor thought I was nuts until he saw the final product. After all, we only got a 5500 sq foot with a view... so every square foot is precious.
It helps to have a mind for architecture, mechanics, electrical... scientists and engineers will have a field day.
And above all, having lots of humor and a very healthy relationship with all of your family.
Started out with an 18 month plan, ended up in three years, three building permits, three sets of blueprints and three inches of work orders.
We got really good at "moving"...
...
I keep thinking of buying a nice lot and building another house.
Oh, I did get my homeruns for the stereo, home theater and network data closet.
Very nice. Are you going to tell them what it used to 'ahem' be used for?
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Yes, you've mentioned that before and it's equally surprising to us that you don't get it. It has been explained that we make use of what's readily available for construction especially when it's relatively inexpensive and deals with things like tectonic plate movement better than so many other materials.
True.... timber framed homes will sway in a quake... a very good thing. I won't say you get used to it, but at least you don't freak out. Eventually you can tell real-time between a roller and a shaker.
Just make sure to have them engineered with sheer walls and bolt them to the foundation and take care of the termites.
Here in SoCal we survive 7s that kill millions in other parts of the world.
Oh, my mom's house up in the Puget Sound was built over 110 years ago. You ought to see the floor joists... they used to cut down big trees then to build small houses. Those joists are easily 24x8.... 20" on center. It was massive and cheap as they used the trees the cut down to clear the lot for the house.
In the same county, many people. like my sister's house, have homes that were built with wood that was milled in situ when they cut the trees. I personally have been looking at 3 acre lots... if I get my wife to agree to move North.
Every location I have visited or lived in tends to use the most suitable materials. Here it happens to be stick framing. Thankfully we are now steering away from wood exterior finishes and relying mostly on synthetics and engineered products.
I tell my friends buy a stick framed house with vinyl siding and an asphalt shingle roof. It's the best combo for our environment.
I tell my friends buy a stick framed house with vinyl siding and an asphalt shingle roof. It's the best combo for our environment.
It's interesting.. . South of the Siskiyou Pass it's stucco... North, it's wood siding. And if you got a bit East, towards the deserts they use tile roofs. The materials tend to be local and suited for the weather.. A home with wood siding with our termites would be a nightmare.
Asphalt singles work really well. Down here we are using those 80% "COOL" shingles... they reflect 20% of the sun's energy so they keep the house cool.
Asphalt singles work really well. Down here we are using those 80% "COOL" shingles... they reflect 20% of the sun's energy so they keep the house cool.
Stucco: Only good if it's installed rain screen fashion and/or you have huge overhangs. Went out of style here 30 years ago.
Wood siding: Prone to failure, requires solid watershedding back-up and is expensive. Went out of style here 30 years ago.
Tile roofs: Until they mandate a proper underlay system it will be high maintenance and high initial cost. Went out of style here 20 years ago.
Wood siding: Prone to failure, requires solid watershedding back-up and is expensive. Went out of style here 30 years ago.
Tile roofs: Until they mandate a proper underlay system it will be high maintenance and high initial cost. Went out of style here 20 years ago.
My house has 1936 poplar shingle siding. It is termite & rot resistant. I paint it every 30 years. Sherwin William SWP paint in 1983, now banned by California. My grandmother's house, still occupied, has poplar shingle siding salvaged from abandoned mine camps in 1911. The last lumberyard I saw selling poplar siding closed in 1987. My house breathes gently, insulated with blown cellulose but no vapor barrier. My heat bills are under $120 a month in a place that gets to 9 F in January.
I tried to plant some tulip poplar trees on my 23 acre summer camp, but couldn't find seeds to buy. Too late now, I'm age 73.
I get a big laugh out of seeing vinyl sided houses on the news that look like leprosy after a big hailstorm.
I refuse to live in a particle board sided house. My 1976 trailer on the summer camp is built of that ****. The aluminum siding is fine, but the particle board is not. People spend $350000 to buy those trash boxes built with "engineered siding".
Crap siding - don’t get me started. I’ll take anodized steel any day over any of it. My shop has been through Hell and survived - the old house has had the roof replaced three times and the upstairs siding twice because of the effing hail. The Hardie board siding we used last time was better (and isn’t rotting) , but it’s NOT a DIY product. You need two guys holding it and one running the nailer or you end up with more broken pieces than good ones installed. Gotta hire labor even if “doing it yourself”.
Asphalt shingles have come a long way but hail destroys, they are stupid heavy, them and they’re still too damn hot. Which brings up another thing - why does everybody always want the darkest color roof they can get? You see steel roofing around here on high-end homes (and barndos of course), but always in DARK colors. What do you want, an oven? I went with the bright silver “galvalume” finish - for the same reason you paint your propane tank that color.
I remember this expensive posh subdivision that went in north of Tampa when I was at University. Everybody wanted to live there. Far enough away from the ghettos, gated planned community, a few minutes from I-275. Built on a filled in swamp. Fast forward 5 years and every single house was getting termites.
Asphalt shingles have come a long way but hail destroys, they are stupid heavy, them and they’re still too damn hot. Which brings up another thing - why does everybody always want the darkest color roof they can get? You see steel roofing around here on high-end homes (and barndos of course), but always in DARK colors. What do you want, an oven? I went with the bright silver “galvalume” finish - for the same reason you paint your propane tank that color.
Yes, the above two posts are perfect examples of why there is no best and why every location has it's own preferred materials.
The last time we had hail larger than dinner peas, I was only a twinkle in my Fathers' eye. Maybe it's never happened, I don't know.
Vinyl siding is cheap, very effective and lasts 50 years or more.
Asphalt shingles are cheap, easy to source, easy to install and replace, and are on the lighter side of roofing materials, requiring only 2x4 truss chords. They are only hot when the attic cavity lacks proper ventilation. The problem is the product itself. It doesn't like heat, nor cold over extended periods. It's also not terribly wind resistant. None of those are a real concern here.
By particle board I assume Joe means OSB (actually a much different product) and fine for this and many locations.
Aluminum siding was last seen here in the 60's. Too expensive and unnecessary.
Hardie board is quite popular.
The last time we had hail larger than dinner peas, I was only a twinkle in my Fathers' eye. Maybe it's never happened, I don't know.
Vinyl siding is cheap, very effective and lasts 50 years or more.
Asphalt shingles are cheap, easy to source, easy to install and replace, and are on the lighter side of roofing materials, requiring only 2x4 truss chords. They are only hot when the attic cavity lacks proper ventilation. The problem is the product itself. It doesn't like heat, nor cold over extended periods. It's also not terribly wind resistant. None of those are a real concern here.
By particle board I assume Joe means OSB (actually a much different product) and fine for this and many locations.
Aluminum siding was last seen here in the 60's. Too expensive and unnecessary.
Hardie board is quite popular.
There are some siding/trim materials in use around here that sort of resemble particle board. Sort of a very thick wafer board, that of course, dissolves in water. Little chips and cracks in the paint quickly become big problems. And hail goes right through it like it’s not even there.
OSB is everywhere - and is on the “better” side of the material spectrum. What they use for residential sheathing now isn’t much thicker than 3 or 4 sheets of construction paper or poster board. We used that **** in kindergarten - and cut it with blunt tip scissors.
OSB is everywhere - and is on the “better” side of the material spectrum. What they use for residential sheathing now isn’t much thicker than 3 or 4 sheets of construction paper or poster board. We used that **** in kindergarten - and cut it with blunt tip scissors.
My asphalt shingles have withstood 2" hail and 90 mph winds. Owens Corning Supreme; there is a difference. Old brittle asphalt tabs used to blow off before seal-tab was invented, but my 1983 roof remainder has has withstood 90 mph winds this spring. The shingles are fine, but the 1983 nails are rusting through. When one blows off, the nails are rusted through under the head. The 1936 nails in the bottom layer, not removed by the 1958 and 1983 pros but now by me, are great. I'm reusing those that are straight, you can't get real galvanized nails anymore. I'm 7/8 around the roof with new Supreme shingles, but I don't roof in July & August. I don't use an air nailer; I'm not strong enough in the arms to wrestle one around.
I bought white Supreme asphalt shingles for my garage, but they were discontinued in the 90's. Shame, since some rotting plywood sheet has allowed some to blow off. I can buy brown, grey or black. My 1936 house doesn't have plywood roof sheet, it is 1" poplar. Doesn't rot. I don't trust the 13/32 CDX board they sell now to hold me up in 20 years, I'm replacing shredded poplar boards with 1" (haha!) pine, over a 1/8" flooring piece to get the new **** to be level with the 1936 real dimension boards. Poplar doesn't rot but sometimes the resin holding the fibers together evaporates & it disintegrates to shards. I've patched 5 bad wood spots on a 33' x 33' roof.
2” hail… Hell, that’s a regular occurrence. Wait till you get, 3, 4 inch - where each stone looks like a mace. I got caught in that some years ago riding my bike home from work - yould have seen how fast I got behind the nearest 7-11 to ride it out. Needless to say my roof was history - but some of the “newer” construction with 7/16” OSB roof decking had holes right through it and hailstones in their living rooms.
We just had 100 mph straight winds in a storm last month. For nearly half an hour. Many of the old growth trees in town flattened - and a complete collapse of the local bank’s drive-through. And a lot of clean up. In 90+ degree heat with 80+% humidity. That made for some nasty sweaty work. And it dropped enough damn rain to delay my build at the new place (only 70 miles away) about 3 weeks.
We just had 100 mph straight winds in a storm last month. For nearly half an hour. Many of the old growth trees in town flattened - and a complete collapse of the local bank’s drive-through. And a lot of clean up. In 90+ degree heat with 80+% humidity. That made for some nasty sweaty work. And it dropped enough damn rain to delay my build at the new place (only 70 miles away) about 3 weeks.
(1) The "cool" asphalt tiles don't get so hot. Besides, most of our homes have some attic space or the roofs themselves have lots of insulation and built in venting so the heat doesn't come through so much. Our roof is typical... 2x12s with plywood on top, tar paper and the shingles. Venting channels and thick insulation for the cathedral ceiling areas. The areas with attic have an attic floor (unique to my custom design) and the insulation is between the floor and the interior drywall. Attic is fully vented.
(2) I like darker roofs, most our our roofs are dark. There's even one house with a black roof, looks awesome. Most of the area uses the thicker 30/35 year shingles, light concrete tiles or tiles. There are very few metal roofs. Our homeowner's association (*) allows the thick asphalt and the concrete tiles, no tiles. I think one house got a metal roof but that's very uncommon. Our designs are nominally mid-century with a few California bungalows.
(3) We don't have issue with hail, only quakes... Roofs tend to be pretty stiff... the walls are where the energy of the quake is dissipated. But I wonder if the asphalt and concrete tiles are lighter and move resilient during a quake?
(4) No propane or septic tanks. We live in the original planned community. Even our water processing plant serves many purposes... an excellent place to hike.
https://www.irwd.com/san-joaquin-marsh/sanjoaquinmarsh
(5) Termites are endemic in Coastal SoCal.
(*) Please don't start on that. There are benefits to having a Homeowner's Association. We have single family homes and our CCR are reasonable and the fees are low and reasonable ( parks, pools, tennis courts..). Many of us have rebuilt (doubled) our homes (we did)... working with the neighbors to make sure we don't steal their sun light, privacy, etc... when the neighbor across the street wanted to build a second story, many of us worked with him to ensure a harmonious design. Consequently his house works well and we supported him with the Board and the City to get the permits.
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No gated or planned communities out where we’re going - doesn’t mix with the wife having horses and me having speakers. Big speakers and a place to work on them. Planned communities going in all around now, and the old neighborhoods are technically “grandfathered” but we are one of the last few hold-outs inside city limits. I’m sure they’ll be glad to see us go, so they can jack up the value to 7 or 800k, and grab more money from the next occupants.