Hi Cobra 2,
Just had a look at the links you provided. I wouldn't buy these. I would rather build my own. The satisfaction of the sound when you have built and tried them out is great you also learn a lot. I would recomend building your own. But I am biased as I have built several amps of all descriptions :- SE, P/P, PSE, TRANSFORMERLESS, SE WITH CHOKES USING P/P OPT's, KIT AMP, ALSO SPEAKERS IB, TRANSMISSION LINE, UNDERFLOOR LOADED, SEVERAL PLANAR FULL RANGE WITHOUT CROSSOVERS (these are my favourite speakers), I hope this helps.
PS You can find plenty of simple circuits on the internet, that is where I got most of my schematics from.
Just had a look at the links you provided. I wouldn't buy these. I would rather build my own. The satisfaction of the sound when you have built and tried them out is great you also learn a lot. I would recomend building your own. But I am biased as I have built several amps of all descriptions :- SE, P/P, PSE, TRANSFORMERLESS, SE WITH CHOKES USING P/P OPT's, KIT AMP, ALSO SPEAKERS IB, TRANSMISSION LINE, UNDERFLOOR LOADED, SEVERAL PLANAR FULL RANGE WITHOUT CROSSOVERS (these are my favourite speakers), I hope this helps.
PS You can find plenty of simple circuits on the internet, that is where I got most of my schematics from.
I don't think you can build something as cheap as you can buy a slightly used piece of equipment. The Citation was mentioned and it is clearly a good amp. Another good buy would be a pair of 8417 Quicksilver amps modified to use 6550's or KT88's.
I was always using amplifiers in the 200-250 watt range on my system until I bought the Quicksilvers. They have more than enough power and if one wanted to make a slight modification the bass will end up being very tight and quick like a SS amplifier.
I don't know if its been mentioned or not but usually a tube amplifier is equal to a SS amplifier of 4 times its size. You don't hear the tube amp clip and the tube amp sounds cleaner.
I had a Dynaco that I modified with a different power supply and different driver board and wasn't really satisfied because it lacked the grunt of the larger amplifier. The Dynaco has great sounding iron and sounds very smooth in triode.
Do you really need 100-120 tube watts? Personally I think its gross overkill unless you have very cheap speakers needing a ton of power.
I was always using amplifiers in the 200-250 watt range on my system until I bought the Quicksilvers. They have more than enough power and if one wanted to make a slight modification the bass will end up being very tight and quick like a SS amplifier.
I don't know if its been mentioned or not but usually a tube amplifier is equal to a SS amplifier of 4 times its size. You don't hear the tube amp clip and the tube amp sounds cleaner.
I had a Dynaco that I modified with a different power supply and different driver board and wasn't really satisfied because it lacked the grunt of the larger amplifier. The Dynaco has great sounding iron and sounds very smooth in triode.
Do you really need 100-120 tube watts? Personally I think its gross overkill unless you have very cheap speakers needing a ton of power.
I have a cheap EL34 (x4) amp(rated 2 x 35W), and it is too small...
I have a strong suspision that the power & output trafos are too small and the circuit simple...
The best Dynaco I have seen, build & price, is here:
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstube&1173822896
(I'm tempted...)
Trouble (as I see it) is that quality trafos (that are less thaught of than original) cost 1,5-2 times a complete old amp...(of quality, like Dyna & Cit).
Arne K
I have a strong suspision that the power & output trafos are too small and the circuit simple...
The best Dynaco I have seen, build & price, is here:
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstube&1173822896
(I'm tempted...)
Trouble (as I see it) is that quality trafos (that are less thaught of than original) cost 1,5-2 times a complete old amp...(of quality, like Dyna & Cit).
Arne K
amplifier sound comparisons.
Hi M,
What a difficult question, but here goes.
It depends
1) On the circuit and valves used.
2) How solid your chassis is.
3) The quality of your parts, layout and a single earth point.
4) How good your soldering is.
All things being equal from these points
I used DIY full range planar speakers size 21" x 24" x 2.5" at 8ohms with the following amps ranked in order for sound:-
1)SE Universal amp which canbe used with these valves in order of merit EL38,KT66,EL34R,KT88,12E1EL356550C,7581A,EL35,S11E12,
5881.
2)SE DA42 AMP
3) PSE DA42 AMP
4) P/P 6CH6 AMP
5) SE 300B AMP-PLUMMY AND HUMMY
6) SE 6AU5GT SOUNDS GREAT WITH QUAD 33 NOT ENOGH POWER FOR PLANAR SPEAKERS. My favourite is the SE Universal amp which uses p/p opt's with chokes. I use meters on most of my amps to keep a check on the bias.EL38's are the loudest on the Universal amps. Regards Henry.
Hi M,
What a difficult question, but here goes.
It depends
1) On the circuit and valves used.
2) How solid your chassis is.
3) The quality of your parts, layout and a single earth point.
4) How good your soldering is.
All things being equal from these points
I used DIY full range planar speakers size 21" x 24" x 2.5" at 8ohms with the following amps ranked in order for sound:-
1)SE Universal amp which canbe used with these valves in order of merit EL38,KT66,EL34R,KT88,12E1EL356550C,7581A,EL35,S11E12,
5881.
2)SE DA42 AMP
3) PSE DA42 AMP
4) P/P 6CH6 AMP
5) SE 300B AMP-PLUMMY AND HUMMY
6) SE 6AU5GT SOUNDS GREAT WITH QUAD 33 NOT ENOGH POWER FOR PLANAR SPEAKERS. My favourite is the SE Universal amp which uses p/p opt's with chokes. I use meters on most of my amps to keep a check on the bias.EL38's are the loudest on the Universal amps. Regards Henry.
I beleave that all.
But the question I tried to ask was.
You build all of these types of amplifiers in good quality , and if you connect them to a switch to one set of speakers. Th same music is tranfered to all amplifiers, and the volume is set equal also the tone controle.
Is then a difference hearable between the amplifiers. Say all amp's give 2 watts to the speakers the same music is there.
Then you switch from one amp to another with no volume difference.
Can you say after that test. That type of amplifiers gives the best sound.
But the question I tried to ask was.
You build all of these types of amplifiers in good quality , and if you connect them to a switch to one set of speakers. Th same music is tranfered to all amplifiers, and the volume is set equal also the tone controle.
Is then a difference hearable between the amplifiers. Say all amp's give 2 watts to the speakers the same music is there.
Then you switch from one amp to another with no volume difference.
Can you say after that test. That type of amplifiers gives the best sound.
mississippi said:
I'd say you can, and for a very simple reason - output impedance. SE amplifiers traditionally don't have any global feedback, so they typically have an output resistance of half the load resistance. Further, it's much harder to make a good SE output transformer than a PP, so the output impedance of the SE amplifier rises significantly with frequency due to the higher leakage inductance of the output transformer. Add a non-zero source impedance to a load impedance that changes with frequency and you can expect a non-flat frequency response at the amplifier terminals. You can also expect the Thiele/Small bass alignment of box loudspeakers to be considerably different to what the designer intended.
And another thing. Very few SE amplifiers have a big enough output transformer to allow full power at 20Hz with the same distortion as at 1kHz.
But a good PP will have an open midrange that stays open even when the music becomes complex and can cope equally well with Beethoven, Led Zeppelin, Thomas Tallis, or Joan Armatrading.
When sound goes threw any thing (even a wire) it adds it's own variation to that sound (I call it flavor).
I listen to Jazz on a SE amp with EL84's and I love it. I am in the middle of testing different tubes.
For more of a rock sound I use my JLH. For general sound I have a modded Marrantz 2238b.
And then there is speakers and cables.
I have built gain clones and class d amps and hate the sound other people like them.
Part of the DIY thing is that you will throw things you bild away ( or hide them in closest as i do).
That is the great thing about DIY you are only limited buy money and skill.
Do you have a tube amp now?
I listen to Jazz on a SE amp with EL84's and I love it. I am in the middle of testing different tubes.
For more of a rock sound I use my JLH. For general sound I have a modded Marrantz 2238b.
And then there is speakers and cables.
I have built gain clones and class d amps and hate the sound other people like them.
Part of the DIY thing is that you will throw things you bild away ( or hide them in closest as i do).
That is the great thing about DIY you are only limited buy money and skill.
Do you have a tube amp now?
For the price I paid, the chinese amps sound ok. But I did not say I liked them. The only tube-amp I really liked...was a Rogue Zeus
http://www.rogueaudio.com/Products_Zeus.htm
A bit too big, and much too expensive for me...
I have listened to several EL34 & KT66 PP amps that have appealed...
Arne K
http://www.rogueaudio.com/Products_Zeus.htm
A bit too big, and much too expensive for me...
I have listened to several EL34 & KT66 PP amps that have appealed...
Arne K
Can you build the ones that you did like. Even if they didn't have the power you wanted.
The reason I ask is that if you have heard somthing that you really liked but it did't have the power you wanted you could bi amp your speakers.
My little 4 watt SE didn't make me happy with power just sound. So i built 2 more and now i have 8 watts per side.
So if you have seen somthing you like in the 20 to 40 watt range. Build more of them.
The reason I ask is that if you have heard somthing that you really liked but it did't have the power you wanted you could bi amp your speakers.
My little 4 watt SE didn't make me happy with power just sound. So i built 2 more and now i have 8 watts per side.
So if you have seen somthing you like in the 20 to 40 watt range. Build more of them.
Problem is; the few good I have heard, are new(er) production-units. Can't get schematics...or they would be even more expensive to DIY, atleast in this remote corner ot fhe world.
I have never had the chance to listen to a Dyna.. or Cit..,
(the chinese amps have zilch, zero, null bass...and attack is unknown. Even edgy/sharp treble).
Arne K
I have never had the chance to listen to a Dyna.. or Cit..,
(the chinese amps have zilch, zero, null bass...and attack is unknown. Even edgy/sharp treble).
Arne K
I agree with you on the Chinese amps.
A couple of weeks back I was at the used audio place and they had a Mcintosh 240 (old but in good condition) the bass was fantastic. It's a tried and true component.
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstube&1173460415
Like this one.
http://www.drtube.com/audioamp.htm#McIntosh
The only high dollar parts would be finding transformors and a case everything else is pretty much basic parts.
A couple of weeks back I was at the used audio place and they had a Mcintosh 240 (old but in good condition) the bass was fantastic. It's a tried and true component.
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstube&1173460415
Like this one.
http://www.drtube.com/audioamp.htm#McIntosh
The only high dollar parts would be finding transformors and a case everything else is pretty much basic parts.
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