Hi everyone, not much of listening the last week as I was experimenting with xover points and level matching for my FR/supertweeter speaker system. I had also changed the smoothing caps to 2 x 10,000uF KMGs and letting them to run in.
Yes, when I compare regulators this is one of the tests I do. It's almost magical to see that wiggly trace across the screen.
What do you mean by noise output?
I should add, at the end of the day it is still your own subjective impression of the sound that will matter to you. So best will be to listen to all of the alternatives that tickle your imagination, and decide what you like.
Regarding the output impedance of simulated models, I'm not as naive as to think that we'll see any such results in reality. Hopefully someone with good measuring equipment will do a shoot out of all these regulators one day.
What do you mean by noise output?
I should add, at the end of the day it is still your own subjective impression of the sound that will matter to you. So best will be to listen to all of the alternatives that tickle your imagination, and decide what you like.
Regarding the output impedance of simulated models, I'm not as naive as to think that we'll see any such results in reality. Hopefully someone with good measuring equipment will do a shoot out of all these regulators one day.
Iko, I meant the added or generated noise, I guess. Batteries have been shown to produce noise associated with generating current so I guess this would be what I'm wondering about but I'm thinking that it's not going to be too easy, so as you say listening is the final arbiter.
In no way I'm going to argue with professional results.
Using the same fixture as I described above, if you don't apply a sine to the load, i.e. if the load is constant, whatever ripple you see on the output will be noise. But that gets complicated, because on most oscilloscopes the most sensitive setting is 5mV/div. At that setting, I could see no ripple on the scope using salas' v1. I use an old tube scope with 100uV/div sensitivity. But at such noise levels it's hard to say what is picked from the environment and what is dut noise. There are some interesting application notes on this subject (look up app notes by Jim Williams from Linear Technology).
It's good that you're a skeptic, you'll learn a lot this way.
Edit: btw, the only reason why I ever do these tests is to satisfy my own curiousity. I don't claim my tests are worth a penny, and definitely I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything.
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Jkeny:
Will not the batteries add up impedance since you have to chain several of them in series to get up to about 13V for the T amp?
Will not the batteries add up impedance since you have to chain several of them in series to get up to about 13V for the T amp?
Yes, Salas, you're correct - 4 in series (13.2) will add the impedances - 16 to 32 mOhm which could be detrimental? (BTW, these are the batteries of choice being used in the electric vehicles, GM's Volt, etc. - just thought this might be interesting info)
Iko, it's not that I'm sceptical - I believe the great results attested to here - I'm just interested how it will fair against a great battery as it's ultimate test. As Salas said, it would be impressive if it matches or surpasses some of these better (expensive) ones - Soundcheck, I believe, runs all his kit on NorthStar NSB 90 batteries internal R of 2mohm.
As I said, don't mistake my questions as anti-regulators; I'm a user of John Swenson's high voltage series regulators based on Gary Pimm's self biasing CCS and believe it offers excellent sonics.
Iko, it's not that I'm sceptical - I believe the great results attested to here - I'm just interested how it will fair against a great battery as it's ultimate test. As Salas said, it would be impressive if it matches or surpasses some of these better (expensive) ones - Soundcheck, I believe, runs all his kit on NorthStar NSB 90 batteries internal R of 2mohm.
As I said, don't mistake my questions as anti-regulators; I'm a user of John Swenson's high voltage series regulators based on Gary Pimm's self biasing CCS and believe it offers excellent sonics.
I am actually much interested in comparisons with everything and subjective results. What is best goes, that is my motto. Ease of making, cost, reliability and functionality included in the mix. A member is using HV Swenson on tubes now that you mentioned, and he is experimenting with my HV simplistic as well, maybe soon he will tell us if there is any subjective gain or not comparing it.
One point favouring your reg is that it scales; the Swenson is only for high voltages & doesn't scale down. A sonic comparison between them would be excellent!
Not directly equivalent to what you gonna make for your T-Amp, its the ring of two, resistor Vref ultra simple HV.
The simplistic LV's scaled from 10V on DC B1 to 250V on Iko's HV high bandwidth version, and from 70mA to 2.5A by now on actual builds.
The simplistic LV's scaled from 10V on DC B1 to 250V on Iko's HV high bandwidth version, and from 70mA to 2.5A by now on actual builds.
So what he's using wouldn't be a fair comparison then with the SWenson HV?
That's quiet a range, Salas and goes to show that it doesn't rely on a particular device's performance in a limited range for it's operation - something to commend it highly!
You know the saying, all's fair in love and war 😀 (just kidding).
The topology scales nicely, but of course some parts need to be changed for the different versions (HV for instance).
So, what do we have presently: 😎
* easy to build: check
* high performance design: check
* all discrete parts: check
* favourable reports by independent builders: check
* not prone to oscillation (with reasonable care): check
* with some changes able to accommodate various operating parameters (voltage, current): check
* designed for low output impedance and low phase shift across the audio range and beyond: check
* freely available schematic and advice for diy purposes: check
Highly speculative possible future plans:
* kits for those who don't feel like getting their hands dirty
* micro-controller smarts for more efficiency (high current versions)
* ...
Have I missed anything?
P.S. Wow, does this ever sound like an infomercial
With Swenson yes, with what you are going to build for your T-Amp not truly indicative, a different enough circuit. Does not have an output capacitor for instance.
Kewl, where do I sign Seriously, an excellent project - full credit Salas & Ikoflexer for advancing it onwards & upwards. Maybe we should rename you Buzz Lightyear (to infinity & beyond) 🙂
So the T-amp version (V1 or V1.5) would be superior to the ring of two version, OK! But is there a high voltage version of V1 or V1.5 from ikoflexer which could be compared against Swenson HV (apples with apples)?
Sorry for all the Q's guys - I'm probably coming late to this party & haven't been introduced around yet
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Yes there is. The one he supplies his headphone DHT amp.
The ring of two is not technically highly targeted but it is well voiced and we maybe have some outsider favorite. We will see.
The ring of two is not technically highly targeted but it is well voiced and we maybe have some outsider favorite. We will see.
Thanks 🙂
There is a HV prototype of v1.5 which I built and seems to work fine. Have a look in the other thread at post 412
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1898022&postcount=412
and pics in post 442
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1898733&postcount=442
I wanted regulated 150V at around 100mA, so that's what the prototype does. Post there if you want a specific voltage and current output because some parts may need to be changed.
Some people might find this interesting; shunt regulator with self-controlled shunt current level, US patent 5260644
Nope, the ideas in it are pretty much like we've talked about it here; what it really means for me is that the mechanism is patented and I won't be building one for sale, but I'll still try work on a version for diy and share it, as usual.
So, let's laugh together at another one of my simulated fantasies. Here's the psrr of a new regulator I'm working on, possibly v4. There is a RC filter before the regulator (R=60R, C=4700uF). The output impedance is not affected by the filter.
OK, we all know reality is not so, but hey, it's nice have a target.
OK, we all know reality is not so, but hey, it's nice have a target.
Attachments
Shala Shunt 5V
Hi Salas and Ikoflexer !
I want use shal shunt for my DAC, out put +5v and -5v, but In my contry I dont fine 2SK170 and Bc550 in you cricuit Q2, Q5, Q6 = 2SK170, Q3 = BC550.
Aloso What transitor I can replaced 22SK170 and BC550???
Can you show for mee. Thank you very much
Dia thien thai
Best regarder
You can see in cricuit
Hi Salas and Ikoflexer !
I want use shal shunt for my DAC, out put +5v and -5v, but In my contry I dont fine 2SK170 and Bc550 in you cricuit Q2, Q5, Q6 = 2SK170, Q3 = BC550.
Aloso What transitor I can replaced 22SK170 and BC550???
Can you show for mee. Thank you very much
Dia thien thai
Best regarder
You can see in cricuit
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