Hi !
Thanks for those informations, I'm learning a bit every day 🙂
I would love to give a try to the speaker, just to see what we can get from it, it would one of the cheapest suitable driver for the Othorn if it was able to survive and if the motor has enough power (I imagine we can't really know without a real try ?).
Otherwise I'm gonna watch out the Oberton 18XB1500.
- 310€ (+50€ compared to the FaitalPRO 18HP1030-4)
- 11mm xmax / 7.5mm
- 126dB@30hz@600W
- 188.9 N*s/m / 161.2 N*s/m loaded
Quite close to the 18sw115 but 80€ cheaper for the price of a lower Xmax and a bit less SPL output.
Those 80€ are definitly not negligible when you have to get 2.
FaitalPRO 18HP1030 would be the better solution if it could handle the Othorn but if it can't I will head on to the Oberton 18XB1500.
If it can interest someone, I asked Roy of Royal Loudspeakers (Turbomaxx) about the TS parameters of their speakers.
Especially designed for scoops and horns, they have high BL, nice Xmax, nice MMS and interesting prices.
They both seems interesting, they do not have that dip at 40hz-50hz.
The 1500 M4 is almost flat until 70hz.
The Royal 1800 curve is the exact opposite of the B&C 18SW115, quite funny.
Here are the results :
---------------------------------------- 1500 M4 (£346.80 ~ 389€) : ----------------------------------------
2.83V - left / right - Xmax@750W
---------------------------------------- 1800 M4 (£382.32 ~ 429€) : ----------------------------------------
2.83V - left / right - Xmax@650W (sim is 750W)
Especially designed for scoops and horns, they have high BL, nice Xmax, nice MMS and interesting prices.
They both seems interesting, they do not have that dip at 40hz-50hz.
The 1500 M4 is almost flat until 70hz.
The Royal 1800 curve is the exact opposite of the B&C 18SW115, quite funny.
Here are the results :
---------------------------------------- 1500 M4 (£346.80 ~ 389€) : ----------------------------------------
2.83V - left / right - Xmax@750W
---------------------------------------- 1800 M4 (£382.32 ~ 429€) : ----------------------------------------
2.83V - left / right - Xmax@650W (sim is 750W)
For pro use I would stay away from LF-drivers with a high inductance. The higher the inductance the less stable its value becomes during displacement and the more losses in the form of Eddy currents. Hornresp allows you to compensate for the high inductance by clicking on "Le" (turns into red). This tool doesn't compensate for the Eddy current losses.
Sim of the LaVoce SAN214.50 in Othorn.
- 500€ driver
- 8ohm
- 1700W AES / 3400W Program
- Bl factor : 38
- SD : 1680 cm²
- Vas : 210 l
- Mms : 410 g
- Xmax : 15,5mm / Calculated : 12mm
Sim 2.83V :
Sim 1500W@Xmax :
Sim 3400W@Xmech (2mm below) :
- 500€ driver
- 8ohm
- 1700W AES / 3400W Program
- Bl factor : 38
- SD : 1680 cm²
- Vas : 210 l
- Mms : 410 g
- Xmax : 15,5mm / Calculated : 12mm
Sim 2.83V :
Sim 1500W@Xmax :
Sim 3400W@Xmech (2mm below) :
Hey just out of curiosity did you have any particular design of scoops in mind before going with the othorns? I'm looking into different designs to build and dnb/dub will be high up on the playlist to come through them.
Thanks
Have you considered Hog scoops? They really excel for dub / d&b, better overall sound quality than standard scoops and drops lower. Stack of 4+ goes down to 30Hz with proper drivers. No wonder why hogs are so popular nowadays.
Sure there are horn subs giving even more max SPL, HOG is just pretty good compromise of everything. We had lots of fun with 6 hogs together 🙂
i agree with tonskulus.
4 of them with good drivers wil dig deep and gives you over 140db.@ 30hz
4 of them with good drivers wil dig deep and gives you over 140db.@ 30hz
What about that? As you can see, hog drops a bit lower. It has longer horn path and larger mouth.
There you go (if my params are good) :
1x Hog loaded with 18LW2400 @1W/2pi
4x Hog loaded with 18LW2400 @1W/2pi
Be careful, if the sims are fine, you'll reach the Xmax of the 18LW2400 with 500W (they are 1200 AES) !
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That's true. But compared to the bigger Neodym 18" from 18S (18NLW..), it has much less xmax capability (9,x mm vs. 14mm). Keep this in mind when going for low-end capacity.
EPA post #4,
"here is an example of a hog scoop.
hog scoop is sort of th.
if you want to go lower you can go the "othorn th."
I always thought hogs or scoops with angled speakers plates look like TH's with a compression chamber.
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handles and such
I'm in the process of building a pair of Othorns (thanks Josh!) and I want to put wheels and handles on them. An obvious place would be at the back, handles at top edge and wheels at bottom edge, but looking at the driver position I am wondering if that will not work so well, I can see the cabinet wanting to tip away from the person pushing it, forcing them to crouch down while moving to keep the CG over the wheels and aggravating the back.
Anyone have any experience here? I don't want to cut up my nice cabinets and install hardware only to find out I've done it wrong.
Also, what is the issue with "weakness" in the hatch design? Is it the half-lap rabbet only allowing 9mm of ply to hold a screw? The panel flexing from lack of bracing? Why not glue a stiffener fin or three onto the back of the hatch? These fins could butt against the magnet of the driver and brace it too...
Thanks!
I'm in the process of building a pair of Othorns (thanks Josh!) and I want to put wheels and handles on them. An obvious place would be at the back, handles at top edge and wheels at bottom edge, but looking at the driver position I am wondering if that will not work so well, I can see the cabinet wanting to tip away from the person pushing it, forcing them to crouch down while moving to keep the CG over the wheels and aggravating the back.
Anyone have any experience here? I don't want to cut up my nice cabinets and install hardware only to find out I've done it wrong.
Also, what is the issue with "weakness" in the hatch design? Is it the half-lap rabbet only allowing 9mm of ply to hold a screw? The panel flexing from lack of bracing? Why not glue a stiffener fin or three onto the back of the hatch? These fins could butt against the magnet of the driver and brace it too...
Thanks!
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you are correct on both pionts.
the box is not tall enough ,i'd use a dolly instead.
you can use fin's no problem,put some rubber between the driver and fin.
some have placed aluminium strips instead of the half-lap rabbet.
the box is not tall enough ,i'd use a dolly instead.
you can use fin's no problem,put some rubber between the driver and fin.
some have placed aluminium strips instead of the half-lap rabbet.
In reference to the 18 Sound 21NLW9601c
Planning to build four Othorns with one of these three drivers, any advice in driver selection would be much appreciated! I can get the 18 Sound drivers at a better price than the B&C...
Any thoughts on the 18 Sound 21NTLW5000 for the Othorn? Compared to the 21NLW9601 and the SW152-4?
Planning to build four Othorns with one of these three drivers, any advice in driver selection would be much appreciated! I can get the 18 Sound drivers at a better price than the B&C...
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Looks like the 21NTLW5000 should be a useful match with this cab. Note that the specs say preliminary though. If they change significantly it might be something else entirely. Also that is a really deep motor. It should clear inside the cab but it might be close. Can you get this driver?
Thanks for the reply, also much gratitude and thanks for releasing the plans of this design and the others you have created - more quality bass in the world equals many happy people!
Sounds like a short wait on the 21" Tetracoil drivers from 18 Sound so not available immediately but not too far away... Would ask directly for some official specs before ordering. Do you think the dual coil arrangement will allow for better long term power handling and control than the 21SW152? The clearance when mounted in the Othorn looks to be less than a 1/4 inch from the hatch, do you think that will cause any issue in response due to its position in the horn?
With the 21NLW9601 I noticed the Fs is 37hz, is that a disadvantage in this cabinet? What is your preference between this driver and the 21SW152 in terms of suitability in this cabinet?
Apologies for all the questions, it seems all three drivers are likely to be very suitable in this design, just trying to gauge whether the 18 Sound drivers are up to the standard of the B&C which has already been proven a a great match!
Keen to try something other than the B&C in the name of experimentation and cash saving but also happy to run with the 21SW152 if need be...
Sounds like a short wait on the 21" Tetracoil drivers from 18 Sound so not available immediately but not too far away... Would ask directly for some official specs before ordering. Do you think the dual coil arrangement will allow for better long term power handling and control than the 21SW152? The clearance when mounted in the Othorn looks to be less than a 1/4 inch from the hatch, do you think that will cause any issue in response due to its position in the horn?
With the 21NLW9601 I noticed the Fs is 37hz, is that a disadvantage in this cabinet? What is your preference between this driver and the 21SW152 in terms of suitability in this cabinet?
Apologies for all the questions, it seems all three drivers are likely to be very suitable in this design, just trying to gauge whether the 18 Sound drivers are up to the standard of the B&C which has already been proven a a great match!
Keen to try something other than the B&C in the name of experimentation and cash saving but also happy to run with the 21SW152 if need be...