The Official HORNLESS Compression Driver Thread

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#181
Greets!

For sure! Consider the real world improvement when land speed record cars are finished to a high degree of 'slickness'. Most improvement I attained was when I milled flat a horn's mounting flange to the point where a wax paper gasket sealed it, then align honed them as an assembly. The > ~3.5 kHz BW was a 'night n' day' difference.
 
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#182
HI! I tried to fill the horn with open cell foam as several people advise to reduce OHMs (and maybe some diffraction problem?). This resulted in a need for a small additional eq (reduction of high frequencies of few db). The sound is improved by a slight margin. This seems to confirm the report from other experimenters.
 
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#186
I've got a pair of JBL2484s - these are phenolic diaphragms so will happily run without a horn.
The internals of these large 2" throat CDs are long throated anyway..
Got me curious.

Above them, at 800Hz'ish, I run a pair of rather expensive to blow up 1.5" throated Vitavox S2s.
They can be crossed on horn as low as 500Hz. As used in Vitavox's systems, and I believe the Vox Olympians.
They also have a long throat section internal to the CD.

I can only run up to 48dB/oct slopes though.. perhaps a show stopper?

I only ever listen at below 90dB!

Below the JBLs I have a 12" driver in a 1.2m Exp mid bass horn. Modelled at 110dB/W,
Below that 105dB/W tapped horns.

Wada you think?
 
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#187
I think I would like to hear your system!
Do you use DSP/active?

My idea was to have passive compact BR box with hornless CD and 8 or 10" with my A class, and from 80Hz and below to go with my active subwoofers.
At the moment listening to Faital 6rs140/sth100+cp385nd and Falcon ls3/5a both of them suported with mentioned subs. Was happy with ls3/5a until I heard faitals...they do some things better like increased dynamics and bass kick, but falcon are so smooth and tonally addictive with nice sound stage.
 
#188
chakija said:
I think I would like to hear your system!
Do you use DSP/active?
Click to expand...
Yes, I use a modded WAF Najda DSP for gain control, X/O, phase alignment and DACs to the amps.

Removing these 4 horns would reduce the size of system a lot!

Do you then run the compression drivers etc closer together?

How does a hornless CD emit the sound, integrating it in to the room / compared to a horn?

I can hear the differences between Tractrix and Le Cléac'h 550Hz cutoff horns.
I put that down to the wave front integration with the room. The tractrix is more direct (less fast opening) and has quite a bit less of a mouth round off.

How do bare CDs fair?
 
#191
GM said:
Spot on, you can't fool 'Mother Nature' in that we either 'dance to her tune' or we pay the price in various distorted ways, leaving our 'job' to finding the best way to 'fool' ourselves while otherwise meeting the needs of the app. :headbash: :cuss:
Click to expand...
Frankx said:
I don’t understant what you mean.
Although a little extra distortion without using the horn is there, my measurements show that at these listening volumes the difference in thd and imd is negligible. If there is a price to pay and of course there will be because, as you say you can't fool nature, that price at these listening levels is not particularly big. I, however, would like to think in scientific terms and not stay exclusively on dogmatic arguments. The horn+driver system was developed for different uses and for those uses extract the most out of the system. Here, however, we are talking about completely different uses, and different sound levels and needs in terms of long-distance sound projection that are completely antithetical to my setup.
It follows that although no one doubts that these systems were developed to work together and that the person who designed them is a person of great ability, nonstandard use in situations different from those for which driver+horn were designed may not be heretical.
I would suggest thinking with as much freedom of mind as possible, while remaining firmly planted on the ground in a scientific approach. No one would dream of denying that a fig plant serves to produce figs, nevertheless if I cut a stick of it I can also use it to help me walk.
Click to expand...
Hmm, missed this. :sigh:

Just that we're stuck with the physics that governs a good reproduction/performance and when we 'cheat'/compromise the design it won't perform optimally that it was designed for, so it will be distorted in some way or other that we will ideally need to account for in some way, though not necessarily in a bad way.

WRT 'dogmatic' Vs 'scientific', they are one and the same to me, so guessing you were 'reading' too much into what I wrote, but considering the language barrier and me normally trying to 'inject' as much information as I can within my limited time, I can indeed be a tough 'read'.

Yes, we agree on the rest of your post and my response was not meant to limit horn drivers to specific designs. I used nearly as many 1" drivers as (super) tweeters and 1.4" drivers as mids as wide range horn loaded, so you're 'preaching to the choir' with me. 😉
 
#193
I remembered way back as a 3 way I tried this..

Screenshot_20231224_131511_com.microsoft.skydrive~2.jpg


Was just a plonk down.
JBL adapters probably didn't do much for the effect?

Pre refurb too.
 
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#195
You can
superlian said:
If i remove the back, turn it around, and direct the dome to the listening position, then i can use it as a supertweeter from f ex 10K?
Click to expand...
You can, assuming the driver has useful response that high.
The diaphragm surround ridge will cause some peaks in the response and diffraction, and the diameter of the diaphragm will determine the dispersion, it will "beam" above the wavelength of the diameter.
You would want to put felt or some other type of damping material in the back and cover the throat with it, unless you wanted to hear radiation from both sides.

For a 1.75" diaphragm diameter, around 100-102 dB at 1000 Hz at 1 meter would be the excursion limit (under .5 mm Xmax/Xmech is typical), which may be under one watt.
At 10kHz the power rating of the driver will be fairly accurate.
 
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#199
Any recommendations on decent affordable drivers? I need 4. Hoping to avoid any harsh or overly bright resonances as well. And what was the talk of removing the compression cap?

I would love to run one of these with an 8-10" driver in an open baffle setup. All thoughts/recommendations welcome
 
#200
For max dispersion, then the smaller the throat the better.

weltersys

Post in thread 'The Official HORNLESS Compression Driver Thread'

You can
superlian said:
If i remove the back, turn it around, and direct the dome to the listening position, then i can use it as a supertweeter from f ex 10K?
Click to expand...
You can, assuming the driver has useful response that high.
The diaphragm surround ridge will cause some peaks in the response and diffraction, and the diameter of the diaphragm will determine the dispersion, it will "beam" above the wavelength of the diameter.
You would want to put felt or some other type of damping material in the back and cover the throat with it, unless you wanted to hear radiation from both sides.

For a 1.75"...
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