The new "My Ref" Rev C thread

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#602
madisonears said:
One thing I will state for sure: I like the Blackgate and even the Panny FM at C9 a lot more than the Silmic. The Silmic seemed to suffocate the highs and upper mids and even affect vocals. Sometimes I would walk into the room with music playing and wonder if my tweeters were working! Sorry, Dario, but I think it's a bad choice for this amp.
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Tom,

I don't have listened to BGs but for sure I've swapped FMs with Silmics a lot of times and, at least in my setup, results are different.

For sure Silmics are slightly warmer than FMs but they're a lot better in many ways: bass is tight and controlled, little or no harshness, sound has more body.

To my hears FMs have a bit too much highs... 😀

The exaggerated effect you describe is what I heard from 100nF MKS2 (and yours were 220nF!), couldn't be that you swapped Silmics and MKP2 at the same time? 😉

With a Wima FKP2 22nF bypass you gain a bit of highs that balance well Simics warmth, you also clean-up things and bass is even better 😎
 
#603
Dario,

My sympathies to your countrymen after the earthquake.

I knew there was a risk of misinterpreting the results after swapping both caps C9 and C21. No doubt they both had an effect. However, the change was so overwhelming that I just can't believe it was all caused by only changing the value of C21. That midrange coloration may have been caused by the larger C21, but the highs almost disappeared when I installed the Silmic, and they're back with the Blackgate. The Silmic was very sweet and smooth, but it really smothered the sound. If you enjoy that type of presentation and it works best in your system, then that is the best for you. The characteristics of all these individual components makes a combination to produce the overall final sound (good or bad) of the amp. I'm sure the Silmic is a very good cap and works well in many applications and sounds best to many listeners. My Marantz SACD player is full of Elna Cerafines, and I really like the sound of it, but some people don't like it.

I am not suggesting that you need relatively expensive Blackgates to get good sound from this amp, but it sure sounds better than either Panny FM or Silmic. In combination with the smaller value C21 (thanks for discovering that), it is better by a large margin.

With the Blackgates in place, it now becomes clear that the Mundorf SIO at C13 is far superior to the AudioCap Theta. I know that's an endorsement of another expensive, boutique part. I guess these things are expensive for a reason. It is not required that such precious parts be put into the circuit, but you will get better performance with them.

Peace,
Tom E
 
#604
I am hoping that when everyone is finished experimenting with substitutions and find a combination they like and WILL KEEP, that they post a list of components and parts swapped.

IE..

1) C19 = BlackGate NP 2uF
2) C21 = Wima 0.22uF

The above are an EXAMPLE!!


EDIT:

And MOST importantly, dito for me.

"Dario,

My sympathies to your countrymen after the earthquake."
 
#606
madisonears said:
I knew there was a risk of misinterpreting the results after swapping both caps C9 and C21. No doubt they both had an effect. However, the change was so overwhelming that I just can't believe it was all caused by only changing the value of C21. That midrange coloration may have been caused by the larger C21, but the highs almost disappeared when I installed the Silmic, and they're back with the Blackgate. The Silmic was very sweet and smooth, but it really smothered the sound.
...
I am not suggesting that you need relatively expensive Blackgates to get good sound from this amp, but it sure sounds better than either Panny FM or Silmic. In combination with the smaller value C21 (thanks for discovering that), it is better by a large margin.
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Tom, I'm happy that you like the sound that BGs and 22nF bypass give to the MyRef and I'm pretty sure that BGs could be better than Elnas.

At the same time I could assure you that what you described is Wima MKS2/MKP2 sound and their signature is overhelming if value is too high.

Since Silmics are a bit warmer than what is necessary a FKP2 22nF bypass helps and give a tonal balance that to my ears is simply right.

FMs in C9 are not good mainly for their muddy bass.

troystg said:
I am hoping that when everyone is finished experimenting with substitutions and find a combination they like and WILL KEEP, that they post a list of components and parts swapped.

IE..

1) C19 = BlackGate NP 2uF
2) C21 = Wima 0.22uF

The above are an EXAMPLE!!
Click to expand...

Obviously each one has its taste but from this and this post the only significative change is the value and type of C21 (thanks Tom and Uriah for the precious feedback):

C1, C2: Can't find better caps than FMs that fits.
C17, C18: void (no caps mounted) or, if you really want bypasses, 100 nF X7R ceramics
C9: Elna Silmics II 220uF 35V (tight fit)
C21:Wima FKP2 22nF 63V (to be mounted in the bottom side)
C6, C11: Elna Silmics II 100 uF 25V
C19, C20: void (no caps mounted)

This list, to my ears, confirms itself each time I try different parts.

For C13 my favourite is Mundorf MCap Zn 1.0uF 250V bypassed with a 10nF Wima FKP2 (Obbligatos sounds FANTASTIC but they colour the sound, in a very pleasant way)
 
#607
Hi All,

I have my LightSpeed soldered up and running and with the Oblagatos it sounds already great. Pity these caps are so huge.
A big thanks to Uriah and Troy.



Dario,

I am having difficulty sourcing the WIMA FKP2 22nF. Can you send me a link to a supplier?

Also I am interested in the mods you have kept on your Sony. I have a DVP-NS900V. Can you give me a link to the relevant site or perhaps PM me?

Thanks
 
#608
Tony X said:
Dario,

I am having difficulty sourcing the WIMA FKP2 22nF. Can you send me a link to a supplier?

Also I am interested in the mods you have kept on your Sony. I have a DVP-NS900V. Can you give me a link to the relevant site or perhaps PM me?
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Hi Tony,

I've bought Silmics, Mundorf and Wimas here

Regarding the Sony, can you specify?

Mine is SCD555-ES and what I've done is simply swapping the film caps used in the signal path with Wimas FKP2 of the same value, replaced output caps (that were Silmics) with 4,7 uF Mundorf MCap Zn and swapped OpAmps PS caps with others of greater value (from 10uf to 47uF, both the old and new ones are Silmics).

Well, not completely true, I've done also others minor mods 😉

I will PM you...
 
#609
A little bit off topic but interesting...

After the C13 test I've found that the Mundorf MCap Zn bypassed by a 10nF FKP2 is, among caps tested, the one that most preserve the DC coupled sound and transparence.

In my SACD player I've had also, as output cap, a 4.7 uF MCap Zn that is the bypass of a 10 uF Evox-Rifa MMK furher bypassed by a 10 nF MKP1837. 🙄

Thanks to MyRef I've identified something that always bothered me in my player.

Someway it missed PRAT, the tonal balance was somewhat 'strange' and lacked a bit of bass, after the test I've recognized MKP1837 and MMK sound as the culprits! :judge:

So today I've removed the MMKs and swapped MKP1837s with 10nF Wimas FKP2 and I've had same results of the C13 test: more and better bass, that tonal 'strangeness' disappeared and PRAT is there 😎

A great result!!!

With the current configuration my MyRef sounds great (Wimas, Silmics and so on) but I think that now I'll have to retest all elcos to confirm previous results... :smash:
 
#610
ClaveFremen said:

Someway it missed PRAT, the tonal balance was somewhat 'strange' and lacked a bit of bass, after the test I've recognized MKP1837 and MMK sound as the culprits! :judge:

So today I've removed the MMKs and swapped MKP1837s with 10nF Wimas FKP2 and I've had same results of the C13 test: more and better bass, that tonal 'strangeness' disappeared and PRAT is there 😎
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what's "PRAT"?
 
#612
ClaveFremen said:
With the current configuration my MyRef sounds great (Wimas, Silmics and so on) but I think that now I'll have to retest all elcos to confirm previous results... :smash:
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Well, things changed a bit but final result is, IMHO, that I confirm my previous results.

With the player's new output caps differences between FMs and Silmics are more subtle and someway different from previous config but I still prefer the latters.

FMs sounds very good, with a lot of presence and a nice tonal balance but their bass is somewaht muddy and they steal a bit of emotion from the music.

Silmics have a warmer tonal balance with good presence (but less than FMs), a much better bass, reverb is better and their emotional effect is very good.

In C9 position Silmics, bypassed by FKP2s (which compensate well presence and wamness), are my choice.

In C6, C11 positions is more a matter of personal taste, Silmics have better bass, dinamic and air but the better presence of FMs could be preferred by others.
 
#613
I will send my pair of used 220uF, 50v Elna Silmic II's to anyone who wants them, for only the cost of postage, if you promise to install them in your My Ref amps at position C9 within 5 days and report the results to the group. Important note: these do not fit the standard component spacing because they are larger diameter. You will need to move either C21 or C13, or possibly both, in order to make enough space for them.

I don't have any other use for them, so I will give mine away. Send me an e-mail with your address and paypal me a couple bucks and I'll mail them to you immediately.

Dario, I respect your testing abilities, but I want to know someone else's opinion of this cap in this circuit. Uriah has already mentioned that he didn't care for them, and I think they're not good, regardless of what you use for a bypass. I don't want everyone to get the idea that these are a good choice based on only your recommendation. A lot of people here, including me, respect your capabilities and value your opinion, but I think the Silmic is a poor selection. Please understand, I'm not trying to prove anyone right or wrong; I only want another opinion.

Peace,
Tom E
 
#614
madisonears said:
Dario, I respect your testing abilities, but I want to know someone else's opinion of this cap in this circuit. Uriah has already mentioned that he didn't care for them, and I think they're not good, regardless of what you use for a bypass. I don't want everyone to get the idea that these are a good choice based on only your recommendation. A lot of people here, including me, respect your capabilities and value your opinion, but I think the Silmic is a poor selection. Please understand, I'm not trying to prove anyone right or wrong; I only want another opinion.
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Tom,

no problem at all!

I want too that someone else try Silmics so we could have another opinion 😉

To anyone brave that want to try them, bypass Silmics with a 22nF WimaFKP2!
 
#615
I agree that the FKP2 is a very nice little film and foil cap. I wish it was available in larger values, but 22nF seems sufficient for C21, and the lead spacing is correct. Whatever cap is used at C9, the FKP2 is the appropriate bypass, far superior to the Avex kit part, and for just a few cents each.

Peace,
Tom E
 
#619
pinkfloyd4ever said:
All the resistors in the relay circuit are completely out of the signal path, correct? That would be
R15
R16
R19
R20
R21
R22
R23
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Yes and no. Those resistors are in parallel with the output of the amp. They "help" sense DC on the output to kick in the relay for speaker protection.

They are not in series with the output but they are "on" the output circuit.

Why?
 
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