For Distortion look at the Frequencyresponse, they show in the same window:
http://www.beyma.de/fileadmin/seiten/download/pdf/Beyma_professional/6P200Nd.pdf
http://www.beyma.de/fileadmin/seiten/download/pdf/Beyma_professional/6P200Nd.pdf
Hi cuibono,
FWIW, the 6ND430 was USD 115 each in Australia (including freight from Italy).
With freight from Italy I don't know what that would make it in the states.
But it might make it feasible depending on the US mark-up? (or local distributor?).
David
FWIW, the 6ND430 was USD 115 each in Australia (including freight from Italy).
With freight from Italy I don't know what that would make it in the states.
But it might make it feasible depending on the US mark-up? (or local distributor?).
David
Interesting frequency range - a lot of music there!
For me a horn does this best, but on OB there should be some good choices. Seems like whatever you choose is going to have a very large influence on the overall sound.
I would put an old Hemp Acoustic 6.5 or even the 4.5 in there if I could get one. Failing that, an Eminence Alpha-6 with Gary Pimm's mods. Not sure if any of these meet your x-max demands, but they should play loud enough in that range and sound very nice. It's going to be tricky, right in the heart of the midrange.
For me a horn does this best, but on OB there should be some good choices. Seems like whatever you choose is going to have a very large influence on the overall sound.
I would put an old Hemp Acoustic 6.5 or even the 4.5 in there if I could get one. Failing that, an Eminence Alpha-6 with Gary Pimm's mods. Not sure if any of these meet your x-max demands, but they should play loud enough in that range and sound very nice. It's going to be tricky, right in the heart of the midrange.
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The only price I saw here in the US was $130. Nice looking driver though!
I'm interested in horns, but that will have to be another story for later. The Alpha6 may be a 'budget' pro driver, at $40. 93.5dBspl, 3.5mm Xmax. The FR is a little rough in the midrange. I wonder what Gary Pimm's mods did to the TS parameters and HD profile?
Thanks for the ideas!
Yesterday I tried adding rear-firing tweeters and making the midhorns open back. (a very crude set-up just for a trial )
(the 'cage' behind the midhorn was for holding the felt pads etc... )
The rear wave of the midhorn is several dB down compared to the front, so I also brought down the rear-firing tweeters a little. Quite natural and relatively fullrange sound is now available at the back of speakers.
The 'environments' of the back of both channels are quite different, left is a corner and right is flat wall. (and I can't do much about that🙁 ) However after re-adjusting the EQ to make them reasonably flat, they sounded pretty good.
The asymmetry of the rear reflections seemed not a problem actually, I didn't hear any real "asymmetric sounds". From the main seating area, the images seemed enlarged somewhat but not fuzzy or smeared. And the sounds are indeed very stable and natural everywhere in the room. (I though it was already very stable and natural in a quite large area, but not comparable with this! )
Previously I got obvious vertial lobing issue becuase as you can see the huge distance between mid and high. Sounds heard (and measured) from seated and standing position are quite different. I can't explain this properly, but the rear tweeter seems help a lot in filling the hole. Now the mid and high are merged much better. And yes! disconnecting the rear tweeter makes the sound muffled right away.
Overall, I like what I hear very much. I'll keep it this way for longer evaluation. Thanks a lot, guys😀
I use the Neo8 high passed at 500 Hz (6th order active LR), and have no problems with dynamics or distortion. They're driven by a ~12 watt 6V6 PP amp in a 14x25x30 L-shaped room. The amp "clips" before there are any signs of distress from the Neo8's.
...just an alternative idea, since you're already using the Neo3.
...just an alternative idea, since you're already using the Neo3.
Thanks, do like the idea of a driver that I could run from 500Hz all the way up. It would change the way I design things. I guess the only issue with drivers like the Neo8 is their larger vertical size will cause beaming at higher frequencies, and effect the regularity of the system's response. But I've never used one, so I don't really know if that would be an issue in reality. I'm going to give it a closer look.
Hi,
Thanks for the kind words. The xover points are 200 & 3kHz or so... They are shallow 6dB/oct. in electrics, while I can't measure the real acoustical ones.
Thanks for the kind words. The xover points are 200 & 3kHz or so... They are shallow 6dB/oct. in electrics, while I can't measure the real acoustical ones.
The Alpha-6 seems like a no brainer to me.
It's inexpensive, fits the bill, the mods are cheap and easy and actually work. It could at least be a great place holder until you find something "fancier." just my 2 cents.
It's inexpensive, fits the bill, the mods are cheap and easy and actually work. It could at least be a great place holder until you find something "fancier." just my 2 cents.
A pair of these (in parallel) would net you an average close to 96db - 8 ohms net.
http://www.gr-research.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=111
The only problem here is combing at higher freq.s.
http://www.gr-research.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=111
The only problem here is combing at higher freq.s.
An interesting looking driver at a good price. I'm pretty sure I'm going to try 2x HiVi DMB-A, back to back - it should be a very interesting combo.
I've been examining the Dayton PK-165 driver - it is a cheap ($24) 6" pro driver (rated 92dBSPL). It is very close to what I want, just the non-linear distortion is a little high below 700Hz or so. I'm going to get an Alpha 6c ($40, rated 93dBSPL) and look at it too - I suspect it will work perfectly for a 'budget high-sensitivity' system. I'll post the info I get on them. But this thread has unearthed a lot of other good suggestions. Lots to consider!
BTW, I did some reading, and redid my measurements of the Neo3PDRW - and I got 90dBSPL/2.83Vrms/1m at 3000Hz. A good confirmation. (the two things I had to change - to convert from Vrms to Vpp, multiply by 2.828 (and visa versa, divide) - and second, use the Vrms value of the mic's output, not the Vpp)
I've been examining the Dayton PK-165 driver - it is a cheap ($24) 6" pro driver (rated 92dBSPL). It is very close to what I want, just the non-linear distortion is a little high below 700Hz or so. I'm going to get an Alpha 6c ($40, rated 93dBSPL) and look at it too - I suspect it will work perfectly for a 'budget high-sensitivity' system. I'll post the info I get on them. But this thread has unearthed a lot of other good suggestions. Lots to consider!
BTW, I did some reading, and redid my measurements of the Neo3PDRW - and I got 90dBSPL/2.83Vrms/1m at 3000Hz. A good confirmation. (the two things I had to change - to convert from Vrms to Vpp, multiply by 2.828 (and visa versa, divide) - and second, use the Vrms value of the mic's output, not the Vpp)
Open back (dipole), or closed back (sealed)? (..I realize the the PDRW is a sealed design, but a few have chosen to cut the backs off..)
Anyway - good to hear that you've made some choices. I hope they work well. 🙂
Yeah, thanks for your input. I have a few really good designs drawn up.
The Neo3 was open back, with no baffle. Below 3000Hz, the driver rolls off - I posted a graph somewhere, I'll link to it if your interested.
The Neo3 was open back, with no baffle. Below 3000Hz, the driver rolls off - I posted a graph somewhere, I'll link to it if your interested.
You're welcome! 🙂 (..the HiVi's low mms should be a good match for the planar; ..prob. take a fair bit of work with the crossover though.)
Sure lets see the link. It will be interesting to compare to the measurements in the link I provided earlier.
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Graci!
Your measurements look better! 😱 😀
Parallel the HiVi's and then add resistance - should work. Might have to cut into the face-plate for the HiVi's though.
It will be interesting to see how you work it. 😎
Cool! Let us know what you think. Also, you might want to get the Alpha-6A as it's the 8 ohm version. The 6C is the 4 ohm. But whatever fits your system best.
You should be able to do a lot of midrange driver rolling now!
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