I think PP is damped "soft cone" whereas thin treated paper is actually "hard cone" (with breakup resonance peak). I do use a Mission PP midwoofer straight-through (like some classic Missions), with "Alumina ceramic" (Al2O3) tweeter and woofer, to add some softness and bass bounce. Cheap inductor can cause trouble (so can capacitor and resistor). I've gotten great dynamics and transparency with aircore made from either old/recycled UK wire or new twisted-7-strand Litz, or just Jantzen (expensive). Cheap new local-wire aircore sounds like cheap 2.1 amp's LPF -- muffled.
In addition, when moving fast, cone, spider and border don't keep their format.
See illustration on this YT video.
And speakers are made of coils, which have inductance.
Speakers installed on boxes (sealed or ported) and coupled to the air may have equivalent capacitance behavior.
All these things shift phase and different phase for each frequency - I included them as "acoustic" phase shift.
In my experience I've found "audiophiles" to be highly opinionated and quite often inaccurate in their assessments. I do trust my own ears.
I would never place any audio for assessment and serious consideration on Youtube. Youtube compresses everything, and who knows what the internet does to the original recording. People who fuss about using pure silver cables, special connectors, and high data rate high resolution recordings have no room to say an amateur recording of a loudspeaker posted on youtube has any particular merit. You can't take an Air-recording of one loudspeaker playing music you don't own or even heard before with equipment you don't own in a room you can't access and compare it to another loudspeaker playing a different recording over different equipment in a different room and make a valid assessment. That's halatta baloney. It might get you in the ballpark, but the ballpark is still very big.
The iPhone microphone (and camera) is very good, but again, I don't care what your supposed 'audiophiles' say it isn't studio quality and who knows what processing apple does to the sound. I know they do massive processing to the audio output in their laptops and also in the video recording. I bet they process the audio as well. There is a lot of processing going on in the iPhone that no one seems to care about. Audiophiles fuss and complain about what compression, clocks, processing, and filters are used in their CD/SACD players but they never consider the same processes (or worse) are used in equipment bought from the lowest bidder used to host and transmit their internet data.
I am a big fan of the Fane 12-250TC triple cone.
I use a pair in a sealed cabinet and they sound good.
I use a pair in a sealed cabinet and they sound good.
Hi Arthur Jackson,
I understand your thoughts, thank you.
By the way, it is Japanese studio musicians who say “the iPhone's internal mic sounds better”. Please laugh at them.
Oh I'm not laughing, I think the iPhone microphone is really good and I use it to measure my speakers during prototyping. I understand that there are issues with the shape of the phone, if it has a case, etc. So I don't rely on it for design decisions.
It's worse than that because full range speakers aren't purely pistonic. For example point B can be out of phase with points C and A.
... is that you hear both the very low and the very high frequency. To achieve e this you usually need to divide the range between more then one speaker driver.
🙂
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🙂
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...now comes the guy who tells: hey ho guys, your so true! My speakers are ( insert variable magnet force ) full range assisted by two subs and two super tweeters!
Hi Arthur Jackson,
You're absolutely right.
Considering the shape and size of the diaphragm, it is impossible to adjust the physical phase.
It is meaningless to adjust the electrical phase.
I have stopped thinking about phase!
Hi picowallspeaker,
It would be good to use a full range as a midrange, a woofer below 100 Hz, and a tweeter above 10 kHz.
I have done a fair bit of experimenting on phase alignment and it is certainly possible, audible, and not at all like the depiction above. For example, the exact optimal relative offset positions between tweeter and midwoofer does not change at all -- whether playing doublebass, cello, or violin. A driver's acoustic center and phase thereof may depend on frequency but not detrimentally or intractibly. Please think about what it means to be a point source.
Hi everyone.
The smaller the diaphragm area and the fewer the number of drivers, the better the phase characteristics.
LCR networks and filters hinder sound extension and degrade three-dimensional localization.
These are what I have realized from my experience.
I'm sure you've all had different experiences, but I don't mean to dismiss your thoughts.
The choices are endless when quality, bandwidth balance, and other factors are taken into consideration.
The smaller the diaphragm area and the fewer the number of drivers, the better the phase characteristics.
LCR networks and filters hinder sound extension and degrade three-dimensional localization.
These are what I have realized from my experience.
I'm sure you've all had different experiences, but I don't mean to dismiss your thoughts.
The choices are endless when quality, bandwidth balance, and other factors are taken into consideration.
Drivers :
Fostex 206
Audio Nirvana Super 8
Markaudio Alpair 10p
PRV 5MR450-NDY
(thank god I stop here, i was planning to get Lowther PM6A)
Amplifiers :
mauro penasa gc,alephj, SIT 2SK82, M2, J2
above combinations failed to impress me, back to back trying to confince my self but my ears always "put them away".
i keep coming back with 3 way + sub.
Those FR in my collection now become my room decoration or to impress someone who visited me 😄
Fostex 206
Audio Nirvana Super 8
Markaudio Alpair 10p
PRV 5MR450-NDY
(thank god I stop here, i was planning to get Lowther PM6A)
Amplifiers :
mauro penasa gc,alephj, SIT 2SK82, M2, J2
above combinations failed to impress me, back to back trying to confince my self but my ears always "put them away".
i keep coming back with 3 way + sub.
Those FR in my collection now become my room decoration or to impress someone who visited me 😄
I'm surprised that no one has brought up my wife's number one reason for liking full range loudspeakers, the cost. For not too much money you can have a very good system.
Hi gadut,
I have not heard the PRV 5MR450-NDY, but the Fostex 206, Audio Nirvana Super 8, and Markaudio Alpair 10p are not my favorites.
I respect your choice of “3 way + sub”.
By the way, there is a Japanese saying "Whether we can listen to a full-range speaker at its best sound quality, depends on the enclosure."
Finding the best box for our drivers can be difficult.
Hi Arthur Jackson.
I think we all know about cost performance.
It would be difficult to get this sound from a multi-way at the same price.
E-Sound DXYD104W-60P-8A-F (4" Full-Range) : 5 USD
Enclosure : 20 USD
USB-DAC Amplifier Board (USB bus power) : 14 USD
Xperia8 (music playback & power supply to DAC amplifier) : 50 USD
“By the way, there is a Japanese saying "Whether we can listen to a full-range speaker at its best sound quality, depends on the enclosure."
Finding the best box for our drivers can be difficult!
In my humble experience this quoted comment is sooo true!
I have heard it said that the box for a single driver speaker is responsible for at least 1/2 of the sound..
I believe that this statement is also true!
People also say that MDF is not a good material for single driver speakers..
I also believe that to be true, but I’ve only ever made plywood boxes, so I can’t say that I have proof…
Finding the best box for our drivers can be difficult!
In my humble experience this quoted comment is sooo true!
I have heard it said that the box for a single driver speaker is responsible for at least 1/2 of the sound..
I believe that this statement is also true!
People also say that MDF is not a good material for single driver speakers..
I also believe that to be true, but I’ve only ever made plywood boxes, so I can’t say that I have proof…