Hey Terry,
Yea, the same speakers, but, as I think I emailed you after the meet, at the time you heard them each speaker had two blocks of wood from the CC that had fallen back into the horn and were rattling around. That's why they sounded so thin and lifeless; there was no horn! Quite embarassing really. I feel bad for the guys who really wanted to hear them, knowing they were disappointed, but I just didn't figure out what was wrong until I got them home. You will get a chance to hear them next summer if you have another competition, or, if you are in the area, you are more than welcome to drop by.
The putty I used is 'Painter's Putty' which I think I got at Lowes. It's similar to window glazing. You can roll it around in your hands and shape it. It seems pretty nontoxic and does not get hard. It's just what I had lying around.
As for your felt hat thing. What is that? Does it go over the magnet? I did try some felt-like material a long time ago on the back of the magnets but decided I liked the sound better without it. I'm always willing to try something different, though.
Doug
Yea, the same speakers, but, as I think I emailed you after the meet, at the time you heard them each speaker had two blocks of wood from the CC that had fallen back into the horn and were rattling around. That's why they sounded so thin and lifeless; there was no horn! Quite embarassing really. I feel bad for the guys who really wanted to hear them, knowing they were disappointed, but I just didn't figure out what was wrong until I got them home. You will get a chance to hear them next summer if you have another competition, or, if you are in the area, you are more than welcome to drop by.
The putty I used is 'Painter's Putty' which I think I got at Lowes. It's similar to window glazing. You can roll it around in your hands and shape it. It seems pretty nontoxic and does not get hard. It's just what I had lying around.
As for your felt hat thing. What is that? Does it go over the magnet? I did try some felt-like material a long time ago on the back of the magnets but decided I liked the sound better without it. I'm always willing to try something different, though.
Doug
Taperwood said:
Hi Doug,
Next Summer the Pacific Northwest Audio Society is again hosting "The Puget Sound! DIY Speaker Contest" again. No date has been set yet, as we want to avoid conflicts with the Vancouver Island DIY meet and VSAC. It looks like the best summer ever for DIY types!
I've never used plumber's putty on a driver, although I have used it for seating and sealing drivers during installation. For years I used oil-based modelling clay after Ed Heath, over on the the old Bass List, recommended it. The last couple of years I've tried Dave's "Super-Duper Planet 10 Duct Seal" (OK, I made that up)
Works well and frankly speaking, sticks better to driver frames.
The "felt hat" is just what you've guessed, although it's fitted to the back of the magnet and extends down enclosing the sides as well. Calls for some fitting (cutting "dart" out of the felt to make it wrap tightly around) before applying lots of Aleene's Original Tacky Glue to hold it in place. Following a belts and suspender approach, an Audiophile rubber band is then placed around the magnet to hold the felt in place until the Tacky Glue sets up.
I've got to go for now, the alarm goes off at 3:30
Best Regards,
TerryO
hi guys,
I should have my saw in just a few more weeks. I have finally managed to read this entire thread. Let me say that some of these builds are beautiful!
I do have one question. In one of the threads, I think it was Dave who said it might work to mount the driver behind the baffle and taper it as in a waveguide. I have had this idea bouncing around for a week or so. If I were to do it this way, I can stay away from the sB and the unacceptable WAF that causes. I could also do a very neat grill on the front either all the way down the front or just over the small space of the driver. It might look rather commercial, but I think it would be rather sexy personally (and my wife agrees).
Just wondering if you guys thought this would be a good idea? I am building the enclosure out of cabinet grade ply with 3/4 sides, top and front and would probably make this baffle out of a small piece of MDF. (internals from 1/2" ply according to plans.) That is another reason I am thinking of making the really small grille so as not to use any more MDF than necessary. That would be easier to get a smooth waveguide shape and I can finish it in a gloss black with the black grille cover. Likely only 5.5 x 5.5" of the stuff. Just enough to mount the driver in. Just thinking out loud.
Anyway, does it sound like a good idea?
Thanks,
Robert
I should have my saw in just a few more weeks. I have finally managed to read this entire thread. Let me say that some of these builds are beautiful!
I do have one question. In one of the threads, I think it was Dave who said it might work to mount the driver behind the baffle and taper it as in a waveguide. I have had this idea bouncing around for a week or so. If I were to do it this way, I can stay away from the sB and the unacceptable WAF that causes. I could also do a very neat grill on the front either all the way down the front or just over the small space of the driver. It might look rather commercial, but I think it would be rather sexy personally (and my wife agrees).
Just wondering if you guys thought this would be a good idea? I am building the enclosure out of cabinet grade ply with 3/4 sides, top and front and would probably make this baffle out of a small piece of MDF. (internals from 1/2" ply according to plans.) That is another reason I am thinking of making the really small grille so as not to use any more MDF than necessary. That would be easier to get a smooth waveguide shape and I can finish it in a gloss black with the black grille cover. Likely only 5.5 x 5.5" of the stuff. Just enough to mount the driver in. Just thinking out loud.
Anyway, does it sound like a good idea?
Thanks,
Robert
Wow.
Lots of stuff happening and the interest in the frugal grows! Mine are settled into " I am happy zone".
The felt hat, the Super Duper Daves Duct Seal ( SDDS ) are all things that are in use with mine. I have also left the back chamber open but tightly stuffed with dacron as well as lined the first chamber with a cotton felt.
I feel that I may need to make changes if I move them to another location, but that is not an issue yet.
I am very happy with Daves modded 126's. And still pleased with the sound the frugals provide. As much as I like to build as listen I just never seem to get around to it somehow.
Looks like I need to spend some time going back on this thread, could be fun!
Happy building everyone
Gexter
Lots of stuff happening and the interest in the frugal grows! Mine are settled into " I am happy zone".
The felt hat, the Super Duper Daves Duct Seal ( SDDS )
are all things that are in use with mine. I have also left the back chamber open but tightly stuffed with dacron as well as lined the first chamber with a cotton felt.I feel that I may need to make changes if I move them to another location, but that is not an issue yet.
I am very happy with Daves modded 126's. And still pleased with the sound the frugals provide. As much as I like to build as listen I just never seem to get around to it somehow.
Looks like I need to spend some time going back on this thread, could be fun!
Happy building everyone
Gexter
Hiya Gex!
and Thanks Dave,
That's pretty much what I expected as the waveguide does something different than what the sB would do. I like the idea of what the sB does, and I certainly have the skills to do it, but I just can't get past the idea that I can't make them look sleek. John's look terrific, but limited material and just plain stubbornness won't let me make this tiny little thing that much bigger.
I will try the waveguide front for three reasons:
1: The baffle itself will be removable making adjusting the chamber size and stuffing very easy to do. IE I am going to use bolts that go into metal braces to hold it in place with saddle tape. Also I will be able to swap the baffle and change the shape and taper and even drivers if I want to without screwing new holes.
2. It will look really good finished with a small black insert at the top of the speaker which really improves the WAF (and overall aesthetic IMHO)
3. I don't think it can hurt anything as far as the sound goes. It might even prove to help just a little with the size of the soundstage?
I have a pair of 126 that I am going to try with no mods first. Then I will do the basket tweaks and finally the cone mods. I have another pair of these drivers coming my way soon so it won't be a big loss if I trash em. Besides, even if I ruin two pair, I will likely be ordering another set from Dave just to be able to have a comparison. That and it will give me three sets of drivers to try different enclosures with.
I am excited and waiting on that bonus check is killing me! lol
See you guys later,
Thanks for the feedback!
Robert
and Thanks Dave,
That's pretty much what I expected as the waveguide does something different than what the sB would do. I like the idea of what the sB does, and I certainly have the skills to do it, but I just can't get past the idea that I can't make them look sleek. John's look terrific, but limited material and just plain stubbornness won't let me make this tiny little thing that much bigger.
I will try the waveguide front for three reasons:
1: The baffle itself will be removable making adjusting the chamber size and stuffing very easy to do. IE I am going to use bolts that go into metal braces to hold it in place with saddle tape. Also I will be able to swap the baffle and change the shape and taper and even drivers if I want to without screwing new holes.
2. It will look really good finished with a small black insert at the top of the speaker which really improves the WAF (and overall aesthetic IMHO)
3. I don't think it can hurt anything as far as the sound goes. It might even prove to help just a little with the size of the soundstage?
I have a pair of 126 that I am going to try with no mods first. Then I will do the basket tweaks and finally the cone mods. I have another pair of these drivers coming my way soon so it won't be a big loss if I trash em. Besides, even if I ruin two pair, I will likely be ordering another set from Dave just to be able to have a comparison. That and it will give me three sets of drivers to try different enclosures with.
I am excited and waiting on that bonus check is killing me! lol
See you guys later,
Thanks for the feedback!
Robert
Well it's no photo, but after discussing it with the other half, it looks like this is what I after. We are contemplating a base for it too. No kids in the house, so it doesn't really need to be more stable. Just trying to decide if 1.5" more height would help or hurt and if it would be aesthetically worth it, lol.
Hey guys,
I just read a post from Steve about why the "general" forums were updated and moved. It kinda sounds like he is encouraging discussions like this even if they are related to a possibly "competitive" product. I don't know about the political implications and I certainly haven't talked to him or Ed, but I thought I would make note of it in case anyone has been avoiding the forums over there and might want to have a look around.
I like all of these guys, I have spent time with both Ed and Bob and I even had some lengthy discussions with Steve back when I owned my own shop. I didn't get the feeling any of them were out to make a buck on every little thing so maybe that whole thing was more political than financial?
Anyways, just thought I would throw that out there since Steve appears to have made an effort to open up the floor recently.
Thanks for the help again guys. I am going today to buy some more clamps. I was looking at the flat packs and thinking how nice it would be to make all of my joints dado like that, but it is something I have never done. I have always used brad nails and butt joints or miter joints. Either way, it's a flat wood to wood joint where the dado seems a lot better. How much trouble would you say that is without a CNC? I have the router and bits and the new saw could be used to make the cuts for the edges, but I am pretty sure I don't want to experiment on this new set of speakers unless it looks pretty easy.
Thanks guys,
Robert
I just read a post from Steve about why the "general" forums were updated and moved. It kinda sounds like he is encouraging discussions like this even if they are related to a possibly "competitive" product. I don't know about the political implications and I certainly haven't talked to him or Ed, but I thought I would make note of it in case anyone has been avoiding the forums over there and might want to have a look around.
I like all of these guys, I have spent time with both Ed and Bob and I even had some lengthy discussions with Steve back when I owned my own shop. I didn't get the feeling any of them were out to make a buck on every little thing so maybe that whole thing was more political than financial?
Anyways, just thought I would throw that out there since Steve appears to have made an effort to open up the floor recently.
Thanks for the help again guys. I am going today to buy some more clamps. I was looking at the flat packs and thinking how nice it would be to make all of my joints dado like that, but it is something I have never done. I have always used brad nails and butt joints or miter joints. Either way, it's a flat wood to wood joint where the dado seems a lot better. How much trouble would you say that is without a CNC? I have the router and bits and the new saw could be used to make the cuts for the edges, but I am pretty sure I don't want to experiment on this new set of speakers unless it looks pretty easy.
Thanks guys,
Robert
Nice.
Would that be a recessed black cloth grill?
Really nice touch, it gives it a solid appearance of a speaker. Mine tend to disappear into a room of wood, Or clutter. depends on how you look at it.
Mine flank a custom oak aquarium stand for my 66 gal and although frugals are maple and baltic birch with just tung oil they blend into the room. My Grills are small and light biege, they were a temporary fix to keep pencils and fingers out but have stayed until I make some nice ones. I do have some some nice pen doodles on them so they need to stay on for a bit longer.
Thanks for the concept picture Robert, it says it all.
Your speaker builds are about four times as fast as mine so I know I do not have to wait over 6 months ( or longer ) for a review.
Hmm should have read farther back before posting before.
I bought a dado set a couple months back. I plan on getting some heavy use out of it. It is going to change many aspects of my wood work in all areas.
Nothing beats a CNC machine but a dado blade and some creativity puts me in the running for some much nicer and easier work.
As far as the Change in the forum I do not know the advantage or disadvantage. I noticed that a frugal thread started up again and maybe that sparked some changes as it did once before. I have not talked with Bob or anyone for long time so I have no idea. I do however stand behind any decision because of their level of professionalism.
It must have been tough for Dave to have a discussion going on a project that he headed up and having to tread lightly around it as well.
Lets hope things work out for the DIY'ers. My rash of builds a couple years ago kept me going through some tough times. These communities mean a lot to me.
Guy
Would that be a recessed black cloth grill?
Really nice touch, it gives it a solid appearance of a speaker. Mine tend to disappear into a room of wood, Or clutter. depends on how you look at it.
Mine flank a custom oak aquarium stand for my 66 gal and although frugals are maple and baltic birch with just tung oil they blend into the room. My Grills are small and light biege, they were a temporary fix to keep pencils and fingers out but have stayed until I make some nice ones. I do have some some nice pen doodles on them so they need to stay on for a bit longer.
Thanks for the concept picture Robert, it says it all.
Your speaker builds are about four times as fast as mine so I know I do not have to wait over 6 months ( or longer ) for a review.
Hmm should have read farther back before posting before.
I bought a dado set a couple months back. I plan on getting some heavy use out of it. It is going to change many aspects of my wood work in all areas.
Nothing beats a CNC machine but a dado blade and some creativity puts me in the running for some much nicer and easier work.
As far as the Change in the forum I do not know the advantage or disadvantage. I noticed that a frugal thread started up again and maybe that sparked some changes as it did once before. I have not talked with Bob or anyone for long time so I have no idea. I do however stand behind any decision because of their level of professionalism.
It must have been tough for Dave to have a discussion going on a project that he headed up and having to tread lightly around it as well.
Lets hope things work out for the DIY'ers. My rash of builds a couple years ago kept me going through some tough times. These communities mean a lot to me.
Guy
Nothing beats a CNC machine
Amen! Even at my age i am getting into DXF to Gcode conversion and the design of CNC.Its amazing that with the inexpensive kits avaliable on the market and even free software that so many mfgs of CNC equipment have been able to "pull the wool" over so many companies eyes out there.
A home built CNC router(2 axis or3) for speakers is not that difficult/complicated/expensive as the companies would have you think.
ron
Amen! Even at my age i am getting into DXF to Gcode conversion and the design of CNC.Its amazing that with the inexpensive kits avaliable on the market and even free software that so many mfgs of CNC equipment have been able to "pull the wool" over so many companies eyes out there.
A home built CNC router(2 axis or3) for speakers is not that difficult/complicated/expensive as the companies would have you think.
ron
Greetings Ron.
You are mentioning that a person can make their own CNC machine and although I am a DIYer in many ways beside speakers it seems rather daunting.
If you have some examples or guidance on a DIY CNC machine I would not mind hearing them here or a PM.
It a thought that keeps crossing my mind.
If you say that it is within the grasp of many of us then I would happy to hear what you have come across over the years of your experience.
When I come across your posts I always have an open ear and a ready mind!
Thanks,
Gex
You are mentioning that a person can make their own CNC machine and although I am a DIYer in many ways beside speakers it seems rather daunting.
If you have some examples or guidance on a DIY CNC machine I would not mind hearing them here or a PM.
It a thought that keeps crossing my mind.
If you say that it is within the grasp of many of us then I would happy to hear what you have come across over the years of your experience.
When I come across your posts I always have an open ear and a ready mind!
Thanks,
Gex
That's true. I can see now I am going to have to invest in a table for my router and some time spent to make a jig or two.
I agree Gex,
The last few years (as you know) have been tough for me and these online communities are what have kept me together during a time when I had nothing to play with (and less to listen to). Music was (and is) my life and I love building as much as listening. I think it's the concepts and ideas that keep me motivated. It was the business of making my customers happy with it that kept me glued for over a decade. I don't think the personal satisfaction came as much from building or listening as it did from hearing "good job" from those people whom I worked for.
But for now it's a hobby and one I love so let's see what we can do over the next year or so.
OH and yeah, it is a recessed grille. I thought to do it just at the top over the driver, but somehow the full length one just seems to set it off and identify it as a speaker. It won't be an sB, but I hope the look will overcome whatever I lose by not having the sB, lol,
Catch you guys later,
Robert
I agree Gex,
The last few years (as you know) have been tough for me and these online communities are what have kept me together during a time when I had nothing to play with (and less to listen to). Music was (and is) my life and I love building as much as listening. I think it's the concepts and ideas that keep me motivated. It was the business of making my customers happy with it that kept me glued for over a decade. I don't think the personal satisfaction came as much from building or listening as it did from hearing "good job" from those people whom I worked for.
But for now it's a hobby and one I love so let's see what we can do over the next year or so.
OH and yeah, it is a recessed grille. I thought to do it just at the top over the driver, but somehow the full length one just seems to set it off and identify it as a speaker. It won't be an sB, but I hope the look will overcome whatever I lose by not having the sB, lol,
Catch you guys later,
Robert
http://www.probotix.com/3_axis_stepper_motor_driver_kits/
Here is the typical drive units. Add a puter a DXF(converts CAD to code) to G code software (try ACE 2000 its free) make a X,Y (2 axis) gear track and table.and thats about it. Yes it takes some learning and some design work or go to the links for DIY examples. A router may take the 400oz/in motors, at least i would.
If i was going into the speaker building business this is the only way i would go. You will never accomplish the repeatability or the accuracy doing it by hand than this method .
Check the links please. This is not that complicated/expensive. Opens up a whole new field of DIY.
ron
Here is the typical drive units. Add a puter a DXF(converts CAD to code) to G code software (try ACE 2000 its free) make a X,Y (2 axis) gear track and table.and thats about it. Yes it takes some learning and some design work or go to the links for DIY examples. A router may take the 400oz/in motors, at least i would.
If i was going into the speaker building business this is the only way i would go. You will never accomplish the repeatability or the accuracy doing it by hand than this method .
Check the links please. This is not that complicated/expensive. Opens up a whole new field of DIY.
ron
Thanks Ron. looks like I have some follow up work. Hopefully I will be able to get internet at work again so I can put my coffee breaks to good use. I am already on top of the PC side and need to understand how to program. PC hardware and wiring are not a problem.
Material for the rig and programming are going to take some time to figure out.
Hey Robert! wanna race to a completed CNC machine, Hmm never mind you'll beat me.
Gex
Material for the rig and programming are going to take some time to figure out.
Hey Robert! wanna race to a completed CNC machine, Hmm never mind you'll beat me.
Gex
Ron That's awesome!
If I hadn't just spent $300 on the router I have, I would probably be getting started right now. Gex you will probably beat me to that one. I like the idea. Can someone start a thread just for this project? I am not sure where to put it.
While we are on the subject. What would be the benefits of the dado fitting or other possible joint structures for this horn? Stiffness improved? Other possible sonic benefits?
I played with my router some last night and realized just how little I know about using it. This horn will have a learning curve. I hope my wallet can take it, lol
Take care,
Robert
If I hadn't just spent $300 on the router I have, I would probably be getting started right now. Gex you will probably beat me to that one. I like the idea. Can someone start a thread just for this project? I am not sure where to put it.
While we are on the subject. What would be the benefits of the dado fitting or other possible joint structures for this horn? Stiffness improved? Other possible sonic benefits?
I played with my router some last night and realized just how little I know about using it. This horn will have a learning curve. I hope my wallet can take it, lol
Take care,
Robert
Can someone start a thread just for this project? I am not sure where to put it.
If someone started a thread i would post as i go about the project.
Long story short. The company purchased a CNC flame/plasma cutting unit from a Chinese company at 120K US$. I oversaw the installation. This was a terrible assingment, they were very un-professional and the language barrier was impossible. The unit did not have a 3rd axis so there was no automatic Z adjustment for wavy plate. All in all it totally failed.
My boss comes to me and asks what it would take to make a portable one man cutting system to cut shapes from steel plate.I investigated and found that the actual mechanics were quite simple and very cost effective.
What i found out is companies that are selling this type equipment are way overcharging and sell their product as if its some mystical ultra scientific process. Its not.
Exmple, the software has been around since the mid 70s. The companies are selling the unit with their own software as if its something new and developed by them. Its all based on the original software.
This is so very adaptable to cutting wood its simple. Again, if i was in the speaker business this is the only way to go. You could cut 20 panels/shapes in less time than one cutting by hand.
ron
If someone started a thread i would post as i go about the project.
Long story short. The company purchased a CNC flame/plasma cutting unit from a Chinese company at 120K US$. I oversaw the installation. This was a terrible assingment, they were very un-professional and the language barrier was impossible. The unit did not have a 3rd axis so there was no automatic Z adjustment for wavy plate. All in all it totally failed.
My boss comes to me and asks what it would take to make a portable one man cutting system to cut shapes from steel plate.I investigated and found that the actual mechanics were quite simple and very cost effective.
What i found out is companies that are selling this type equipment are way overcharging and sell their product as if its some mystical ultra scientific process. Its not.
Exmple, the software has been around since the mid 70s. The companies are selling the unit with their own software as if its something new and developed by them. Its all based on the original software.
This is so very adaptable to cutting wood its simple. Again, if i was in the speaker business this is the only way to go. You could cut 20 panels/shapes in less time than one cutting by hand.
ron
