How can i get the designs for these? (how far of is the final design?) They are probly better then anything i have now anyway, although my room isnt set up to load them in a coorner.
Also are all the tests with modified Fostex?
I am almost done my latest project and the wife wants to know what i want for father day sooo...... 😀
Dave what do you charge for the modified fostex that is best suited for this project? (if you dont mind me asking)
Sam
Also love the void.....
Also are all the tests with modified Fostex?
I am almost done my latest project and the wife wants to know what i want for father day sooo...... 😀
Dave what do you charge for the modified fostex that is best suited for this project? (if you dont mind me asking)
Sam
Also love the void.....
bostonswoop said:
Request plans from the link on this page http://www.planet10-hifi.com/FH-plans.html
We are really only at the 3rd rev of the design, but already have something quite decent. The next rev will be fairly radical (and may fall flat on its fave 🙂)
I've got the 1st data from Ron wrt a new rear treatment and a deflector. The deflector will mean that the horn will work away from a corner (it should still be near a wall). This detail is significant enuff -- Ron figures greater then 10 Hz extension on the bottom, and there should be less ripple from reflections off the wall/corner -- to warrant an alpha 1.3.1 version. I'm just confirming things with Ron now, It should be possible to retrofit builds already done.
We have been testing with unmodified FE126 & FE108 as well as modified FE126. Modified FE126 is closer to FE108 than to unmodded FE126 (and 3 dB more efficient to boot). I just placed an order for 20 FE126 and i'll be selling all these modified. Target price will be Canadian retail (ie whatever Solen sells unmodified FE126 for to end users in Canada).
standard will be with no color in the treatment, but you'll be able to order up whatever color you want (and get however close i can get to that color using food color added to the mix -- red, blue, purple?)
dave
Thanks Dave, I rifled of a request. I look forward to trying my hand at a horn/full range project. I need a more musical speaker then my current Kef's Coda's. Also need a new project for the garage.
My room i use is 14x22-7' high (drop ceiling basement room) and use it width wise so i can put em against a wall for sure, corners...... well lets say id have to remodel to do that....
So the Alpha 1.3.0 has been designed not to have to corner load it i take? Also did you guys use baltic birtch or standard mdf? like a 1/2 to 3/4 inch pieces?
Sam
Oh think they will sound alrite on my dennon reciever? or am i going to have to build a gain clone or tube amp also? 😉 (wife would love that)
My room i use is 14x22-7' high (drop ceiling basement room) and use it width wise so i can put em against a wall for sure, corners...... well lets say id have to remodel to do that....
So the Alpha 1.3.0 has been designed not to have to corner load it i take? Also did you guys use baltic birtch or standard mdf? like a 1/2 to 3/4 inch pieces?
Sam
Oh think they will sound alrite on my dennon reciever? or am i going to have to build a gain clone or tube amp also? 😉 (wife would love that)
bostonswoop said:Thanks Dave, I rifled of a request. I look forward to trying my hand at a horn/full range project. I need a more musical speaker then my current Kef's Coda's. Also need a new project for the garage.
My room i use is 14x22-7' high (drop ceiling basement room) and use it width wise so i can put em against a wall for sure, corners...... well lets say id have to remodel to do that....
So the Alpha 1.3.0 has been designed not to have to corner load it i take? Also did you guys use baltic birtch or standard mdf? like a 1/2 to 3/4 inch pieces?
Sam
Oh think they will sound alrite on my dennon reciever? or am i going to have to build a gain clone or tube amp also? 😉 (wife would love that)
1.3 hasn't been built yet (I don't think the ink's even dry on the plans), so "modelling" aside it's too soon to tell how they'll perform in the real world without the corners. You could always devise a "portable" second corner - sand filled MDF L-shaped pony wall.
Baltic birch definitely - for at least the last year or so, we've been using MDF only for HT subs.
With either the FE126 or 108ESigma, there's no dumbing down of the amp's sonics, so for my money the only question is which tube amp to build. Having tried 2 or 3 gain clones and the mini-aleph, I'll take my RH84 monoblocks any day.
chrisb said:
The version being distributed is 1.3 and is a minor revision of 1.2.1 (that chris & i built) it only differs in a couple places where we decided buildability could be improved. The modified mouth and deflectors will be added and it will be 1.4.0. Alpha Version 2.0 is still bouncing around in my head (with some sketches on paper). It will be influenced by Ron's rear treatment & deflector
dave
bostonswoop said:
Let's say that the FE126 or FE108 are not going to hide how your Denon sounds. You may find it acceptable, but you will find that they also telegraph improvements in your amplification, and every time you improve your amplification your whole system will be better. And once you are spoiled by a better amp it will really be hard to go back 🙂 (ie Chris is already really spoiled)
dave
Portable corners
I have, behind the Buschhorns (FE108ESigma), two portable corners (i.e., one per speaker). They are just 3/4" MDF panels, app. 3' x 3', piano-hinged together. I wouldn't claim that this is the best possible solution but the speakers weren't really listenable without and now they verge on good; and the WAF-factor is slightly higher than solid pony-walls, perhaps.
Slightly OT: they still have a persistent honk which tends to render female treble voice difficult to understand. This could be:
- room placement
- the fact that one of the side panels on each speaker is still (!)clamped on while I slowly mess about with internal damping to try to get rid of the honk [current status: bit of long-hair wool in throat; self-stick felt circle on back of driver]
- since side is not glued, the two major voids are still, um, void; no sand filling
- and, of course, they're made of MDF except for the Baltic-birch front panel
Any suggestions? Dave, do you think a phase-plug would resolve this particular problem?
[edit] Additional diagnostic information: the sound improves quite a bit off-axis and I now have them toed-in so they cross about 1 1/2 metres in front of the listening position.
I have, behind the Buschhorns (FE108ESigma), two portable corners (i.e., one per speaker). They are just 3/4" MDF panels, app. 3' x 3', piano-hinged together. I wouldn't claim that this is the best possible solution but the speakers weren't really listenable without and now they verge on good; and the WAF-factor is slightly higher than solid pony-walls, perhaps.
Slightly OT: they still have a persistent honk which tends to render female treble voice difficult to understand. This could be:
- room placement
- the fact that one of the side panels on each speaker is still (!)clamped on while I slowly mess about with internal damping to try to get rid of the honk [current status: bit of long-hair wool in throat; self-stick felt circle on back of driver]
- since side is not glued, the two major voids are still, um, void; no sand filling
- and, of course, they're made of MDF except for the Baltic-birch front panel
Any suggestions? Dave, do you think a phase-plug would resolve this particular problem?
[edit] Additional diagnostic information: the sound improves quite a bit off-axis and I now have them toed-in so they cross about 1 1/2 metres in front of the listening position.
Aengus, a couple of initial questions:
which Buschorn version are you running, MKI or MKII?
How many hours playing time on the drivers?
maybe we could arrange a comparative listening session
which Buschorn version are you running, MKI or MKII?
How many hours playing time on the drivers?
maybe we could arrange a comparative listening session
Aengus,
Did you shrink the CC to the small size recommended by some? (we found that that size brought on the honk).
And my other recommend -- mdf burns nicely 🙂
That's what happened to the pair of B-Horn IIs we made with MDF.
As Chris intimates, we could arrange a comparo for your B-Horns, modified B-Horn 1s and the current build of the Frugel-Horns. Chris has set up a room specificallt for testing/developing these little corner horns. Still needs some taming, but is doing the job.
dave
Did you shrink the CC to the small size recommended by some? (we found that that size brought on the honk).
And my other recommend -- mdf burns nicely 🙂
That's what happened to the pair of B-Horn IIs we made with MDF.
As Chris intimates, we could arrange a comparo for your B-Horns, modified B-Horn 1s and the current build of the Frugel-Horns. Chris has set up a room specificallt for testing/developing these little corner horns. Still needs some taming, but is doing the job.
dave
Fahrenheit 451 (apologies to the Metric folk)
Hi
It's the Mark II with a sloping "roof" variant. Photos: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=51726&perpage=10&pagenumber=7 Lots of hours on them now; in fact they're my current speakers, and they are listenable; just not great.
I did - and foolishly built it right in, so it will take major surgery to expand it. Which may lead to the next point...
...but I'd love to do the comparative listening session. I'm swamped up to the 19th but maybe we can set something up for after that.
If nothing else, perhaps they could serve as an example of how-not-to-do-it at the VIdiyFest
BTW, Dave, Chris - thanks for your willingness to help. This board is an invaluable resource for those as ignorant as I am just because of people like you.
Hi
It's the Mark II with a sloping "roof" variant. Photos: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=51726&perpage=10&pagenumber=7 Lots of hours on them now; in fact they're my current speakers, and they are listenable; just not great.
I did - and foolishly built it right in, so it will take major surgery to expand it. Which may lead to the next point...
...but I'd love to do the comparative listening session. I'm swamped up to the 19th but maybe we can set something up for after that.
If nothing else, perhaps they could serve as an example of how-not-to-do-it at the VIdiyFest
BTW, Dave, Chris - thanks for your willingness to help. This board is an invaluable resource for those as ignorant as I am just because of people like you.
Aengus - if you're game to reconsider enclosures, I think either the MKI or Frugelhorns would probably be more satisfying in terms of the midrange colorations you describe.
Try to wait 'til you get a chance to hear them for yourself before undertaking any "extreme makeover"; it would likely take less time to build a new pair of boxes than to modify existing. (ask me how I know that?)
I wouldn't actually burn the MDF, but we certainly have room in our dumpster.
The supra baffle (stop sign or square) is not mandatory (and certainly not particularly wife-friendly)
Try to wait 'til you get a chance to hear them for yourself before undertaking any "extreme makeover"; it would likely take less time to build a new pair of boxes than to modify existing. (ask me how I know that?)
I wouldn't actually burn the MDF, but we certainly have room in our dumpster.
The supra baffle (stop sign or square) is not mandatory (and certainly not particularly wife-friendly)
Well, since my wife has been living (almost) uncomplainingly about the clamps all winter, she is pretty tolerant. But I myself prefer the design minus the supra baffle from the standpoint of visual esthetics. I do like the cutout, nice piece of design that.
I will wait to compare, though, before deciding what direction to head in; and I do agree about rebuild - I will likely even go for birch ply this time. Thanks again.
I will wait to compare, though, before deciding what direction to head in; and I do agree about rebuild - I will likely even go for birch ply this time. Thanks again.
Aengus: I've built a pair of B'horns, very similar to yours in terms of the CC size and shape, mine being a bit larger. With both the 108EZ's and the 126's, mine too have a bit of midrange honk.
Methinks the "Frugel-Horns" are worth building!
Good Luck, Don
Methinks the "Frugel-Horns" are worth building!
Good Luck, Don
Re: Fahrenheit 451 (apologies to the Metric folk)
Aengus I totally agree, there are so many good people on these forums willing to help out and give advice it's just awesome. I'd take Dave and Chris's offer to come over for a listen and bring your B-horns to compare. I think you will be very impressed with the sound of the Frugels. Dave
🙂
Aengus I totally agree, there are so many good people on these forums willing to help out and give advice it's just awesome. I'd take Dave and Chris's offer to come over for a listen and bring your B-horns to compare. I think you will be very impressed with the sound of the Frugels. Dave
🙂
When do you think revision 1.4 will be out. I am interested in the development of the deflector.
My other post seemed to disappear so I am posting again.
My other post seemed to disappear so I am posting again.
gexter said:
Later this week... Ron & i have finally found a way to communicate & we are just detailing the deflector.
dave
So your computers have worked out their differances and are talking again?
Sorry could not resist
thanks you guys, looking forward to it
Sorry could not resist
thanks you guys, looking forward to it
Dave,
I understand the goal creating a DIY design of similar proportions to Ed's The Horn, and as I understand his is quite finicky about placement. Builders are going to know whether they have corner or wall placement, so it seems that instead of a separate deflector shaping and directing the rear wave should be an integral part of the design. Couldn't this be easily accomplished with 2 or 3 variations of the final segment(s) and horn mouth, making the cab a complete speaker?
I understand the goal creating a DIY design of similar proportions to Ed's The Horn, and as I understand his is quite finicky about placement. Builders are going to know whether they have corner or wall placement, so it seems that instead of a separate deflector shaping and directing the rear wave should be an integral part of the design. Couldn't this be easily accomplished with 2 or 3 variations of the final segment(s) and horn mouth, making the cab a complete speaker?
johninCR said:
There will be 2 or 3 versions* but all will still be optimally placed in a corner. To do a wall supported horn you really need to go all the way to the throat which means a whole different horn -- and Ron has already provided us with the A126.
*(basic horn in rectangular box, and then that box with add supra-baffle or add curved rear mouth or add deflector or a combination of these options)
With the deflector in place, placement will likely still be finicky, but liekly a bit less.... B
dave
update: Ron has OKed my take on his rear treatment -- i just need to get the drawings banged into shipable form. Note this alpha 1.4.0 version will not invalidate the 1.3.0 many of you have (WAF), but it will improve on it (Ron estimates "around 10-12 Hz lower Fc as well as a much cleaner low and mid bass response."). I'll try to get a teaser up today.
