The "Elsinore Project" Thread

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#6,161
Joe,

I was pleasantly surprised and honored to see pictures my ULD build at the top of the gallery, though note that the discussion from 2019 is from my original Mk6 build. Just a minor comment.

I wanted to add (and the purpose of this posting) is my recent experience with Miflex capacitors in amplifier coupling cap applications (I have used them in several amplifiers for myself and customers) gives me some pause about using these. I do have them in my ULD build on the tweeter, based on your good report on the sound. First, as you may have heard, Miflex is out of business, so what is out in the market is existing stock with no prospect of future availability. I doubt that is much of an issue where it is just as easy to select a different capacitor for the tweeter (such as Duelund). The more serious issue is that I have seen multiple instances of oil leaking from the end seals on the 0.22uF/600V KPCU-01 Series. I don't know if it is a problem with just this production run, or is a defect in the overall design of these caps. It may not be an issue with the KPCU-03 series, or with a different value. I don't think this affects the cap electrically, I tested one cap that was leaking at rated voltage and there was no DC leakage, tested same as a known good cap. And it is possible to repair these by de-greasing and resealing the ends with epoxy. It could be there was no problem because the leak was caught early enough. So it may be good to inspect these after a time, and if found, resealing or replacing them.

David
 
#6,162
A follow-up concerning Miflex capacitors. Talked with a US distributor of these, and the oil leakage apparently is a benign issue with the caps, it does not impact them electrically, and is an artifact of the manufacturing process (wet vs dry oil, and apparently the phenolic cases are also oiled, and, according to the importer, oil is often present in the packaging as received). Thermal heating can be an issue in the context of a tube amp coupling cap with respect to oil residue. Speaker crossover application is much less of a problem (and is the majority of the usage).

Also, I was told by the same distributor that Miflex is still a going concern, just under corporate restructuring. I was told by another distributor that they were in bankruptcy. So somewhat confusing. However the AudioMiflex website still is active and appears to be taking orders.

David
 
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#6,163
Hope that Miflex sorts things out, but yes we do have the Duelund option. As for the 0.22uF I have used quite a few of them and not seen any oil, but good to know that it is a benign issue.

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#6,164
dmcgown said:
I don't think this affects the cap electrically, I tested one cap that was leaking at rated voltage and there was no DC leakage, tested same as a known good cap.
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For members who are not familiar, ordinary capacitor leakage is nothing to do with fluid. It is about parasitic current that flows through the dielectric (leaks) in a manner similar to a large value resistor placed in parallel with the capacitance.
 
#6,166
My understanding is with "wet" type oil capacitors (AC types), the oil is present for cooling given the heat generated by the large voltage swing. I suppose there will be a problem if the oil leaks out so that it can no longer handle the thermal stress. Also, my understanding the oiled paper used in PIO capacitors is the dielectric, not the oil. I have opened up a metal cased hermitically sealed PIO signal cap and the oiled paper is very thin and translucent, almost like a plastic film or waxed paper, and is dry. There are some that are wet, though. But I am no expert.
 
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#6,168
Just a note, neither of the Miflex capacitors listed are the copper foil PIO (KPCU), the Aluminum version (KPAL) listed does run about 1/2 the price.I have made the same mistake, but with a smaller value and therefore less expensive mistake. The KPAL caps are good, but not a good as the copper.

David
 
#6,169
skyraider said:
Hi, just to share my recently completed Elsinore. This build is version MFC, mainly because I collected the parts since 2017 but I only managed to complete it recently. It uses the earlier waveguide sourced from Joe, made from what could be HDPE (I stand corrected), the material is dense, sonically inert and the throat fits the tweeter perfectly. I highly recommended getting this!

I made a few deviations, for example the crossover is mounted on the rear baffle. Initially the crossover is wired p2p, but I eventually made a custom PCB for aesthetic reason. The baffle is veneered instead of ‘the standard’ gloss paint. I believe this does alter the character a bit however the matte veneer finish is easier to maintain. I’ve also added protection screen which is normally not mounted.

What I find the most interesting aspect of the design is Joe’s philosophy to crossover design, this is refreshing but regretfully many debates I believe are coming from keyboard warriors. I adopt hands on approach-just build it and try. First I omitted the resonant compensation for the woofers, it sounds like any normal bass reflex, warm round notes, the port tuning is not sluggish or distorted but pleasant enough to be enjoyed. When the compensation network is wired up the bass is tighter controlled, each notes have dynamic contrast which is most discerning on acoustic bass like ‘Spanish Harlem’.

By mistake I initially wired the tweeter with wrong polarity, nothing sounds discerningly wrong except a bit dark sound. However after correcting this, there is better low level details at low volumes and a deeper soundstage. I can give my thumbs up to the ‘Renegade Tweeter’ theory.

From my subjective comparison with commercial speakers, the Elsinore can stand heads on with 10-20K USD range. But where this design stands unique in a class of its own, is the true ability to produce deep bass and control from low powered tube amp. To my knowledge no high end speakers are made for tube amps anymore (aside from the horn, but that is another direction in sound). This puppies have no problem producing bass notes from Metallica with speed and musically.

I’ve been reading on the design since day 1, only to lose track on the more recent upgrades to Purifi drivers. Special thanks to Joe for generously sharing the fantastic design and making it accessible, and his tireless decade of refinement from the original design concept! Joe, if you are ever in KL Malaysia please drop me a message for free beer.
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Amazing!! Can you advise as to where you sourced the feet?
 
#6,170
Somebody local has a set of the SB drivers for this build going at a reasonable cost. I'm unsure about the bass from these but the price they are asking is so low I may take a chance. I like deep bass do I need to incorporate a sub into my costs? Two or three subs actually as I nearly always do stereo or triple subs if smaller than 250/300mm
 
#6,172
dmcgown said:
Just a note, neither of the Miflex capacitors listed are the copper foil PIO (KPCU), the Aluminum version (KPAL) listed does run about 1/2 the price.I have made the same mistake, but with a smaller value and therefore less expensive mistake. The KPAL caps are good, but not a good as the copper.

David
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Somehow I missed that and thanks for pointing it out. I guess I will have to settle for what I have and try a bypass cap in the future.
 
#6,180
Moondog55 said:
Somebody local has a set of the SB drivers for this build going at a reasonable cost. I'm unsure about the bass from these but the price they are asking is so low I may take a chance. I like deep bass do I need to incorporate a sub into my costs? Two or three subs actually as I nearly always do stereo or triple subs if smaller than 250/300mm
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You don’t have a link to the drivers for sale if available by chance?

Edit: only if they offer shipping (bummer)
 
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