The Biology and Immunology Corner

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Am I being over paranoid?

My mother, 86, has heart and lung conditions plus diabetes. She usually spends a couple of months a year in hospital and one of her scripts requires renewing. This requires taking her to the doctor and waiting around half an hour in the waiting room.

I don't like this idea because if she just happen to get COVID-19 it wouldn't be good! I know the risk is low ATM.
 
Just call your nurse and ask for renewal. Not paranoid at all.

The Medical Centre we use "officially" requires a face to face appointment.

They need to check on your condition to determine if you still require your drugs. Also the government pays for medication of the elderly so they need to keep check.

I suspect it is really because most of our medical centres are "bulk billed" meaning the government pays. So without an appointment, they don't get paid!

I have found once you get through the front desk, where they have polices for order and profitability, the doctors and nurses do what is right for the patient.

Back in the old days when you actually paid for a doctor out of your own pocket, they were more flexible.
 
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Hi Greg, We have used the Doctor service where they come to you. 13SICK National Home Doctor - After Hours Doctor It's strictly for afterhours, but you could ring them and check.

Normally you should be able to ring the Doctor and get a prescription posted, if it is a standard medication the patient has been having. You could ring the national number 1300 066 055 and ask for advice. (I suspect there is a long wait though).

Tony.
 
I have a question.

If you have gloves or some other form of protection and you use them outside, say you go to the market...talk to many different venders and exchange cash with different people.

Now you're at home, you've taken off your gloves but you don't want to toss them because you've only got a few. You're worried there might be virions on the gloves. Can you toss them in the freezer overnight? Virus's are sensitive to temperature...would that be enough to inactivate them? Would the gloves be sterile?
Thanks,
Glenn
Freezing does nothing, even less overnight.

I suggest you do same as me: I put a 10 liter (2.5 gallons?) bucket in the floor, in the entrance/exit path, almost full with water plus half a glass of Clorox or local equivalent.
Slightly on the "too strong" side, but hey .....

Every time I come back from the street, where I touched money - desktops - ATM screens - handrails of any kind - travelled in any public transport ... tou get it, whenever I touched any surface which is touched by somebody else, I open the door with my keys, touch NOTHING inside (if anything I close the door with my shoulder, etc.) and go straight to the bucket, where I submerge my hands and keys.
And if I used a shopping cart, a bicycle when I also touched "suspect surfaces", I keep a small sponve floating in thge bucket and wipe handles, also the door knobs.

I trust Chlorox much more than alcohol or anything else, because of its unsophisticated, brute force action, it just destroys anything organic.

To avoid losing 10% of my skin every time, after, say, 1 minute I wash my hands under tap water, simply to avoid bleach eating further through my skin, needlessly.

When/If using gloves, I´d use stronger bleach (one full glass per bucket) and leave them wet for a while.

I *think*they will be reasonably sterilized and reusable.

I thought about doing this, because I could buy a 100 surgical gloves box only (together with 2 x 50 masks) , both now utterly unavailable, and I always think about some kind of Plan B.

If the worst happens and I run out of surgical gloves, I will buy a dozen regular dishwashing type ones, and use them many times, disinfecting them as described.

By the same token, if I run out of masks (yes, I know they are of limited usefulness, but better than nothing), I´ll DIY some using the semi-official Hong Kong method, out of paper napkins, painter´s paper tape, bread bag type ties and rubber bands.

They also show how to turn regular glasses into full face shields.

What do you think Dr?
 
Hi Greg, We have used the Doctor service where they come to you. 13SICK National Home Doctor - After Hours Doctor It's strictly for afterhours, but you could ring them and check.

Normally you should be able to ring the Doctor and get a prescription posted, if it is a standard medication the patient has been having. You could ring the national number 1300 066 055 and ask for advice. (I suspect there is a long wait though).

Tony.

Thanks Tony,

I think it is a business decision by the Medical Centre to not write prescriptions without a consultation. As it is 100% bulk billing there is no process to get paid for the doctors time and P&H.

I just turned up at the doctors for my mums appointment. That means the Medical Centre can't charge the government for the visit. The doctor told them that he would forgo his fee.

We have used Home Doctors before. I feel it's a waste of the doctors time visiting just for a prescription, especially in a couple of weeks time when resources are going to be stretched. The last visit the doctor was shitty that she wasn't in hospital!

regards
 
...one of her scripts requires renewing. This requires taking her to the doctor and waiting around half an hour in the waiting room. I don't like this idea because if she just happen to get COVID-19 it wouldn't be good!...

Is it possible to sit outside the office, in your/her own car, tell the office to ring your cell-phone when they are ready to put you IN the exam room?
 
A lot of doctor's offices offer it around here. I was surprised when my oncologist suggested I get a shingles shot despite already having had it, apparently it can happen again. So on my list..

I got a flu shot this season for the first time in 30 years and can report no side effects of any sort at all.

They're finding that shingles is one of the viruses you lose immunity to over time; my parents are around the age of many of the posters here (mid 60's) and they've been getting a couple boosters, and definitely shingles.

Interesting topic to have here! I'm still definitely an EE but work in a research hospital, so a lot of these topics flow through the ether around here.
 
As requested by unpopular demand, a lounge talk dedicated to biology Q&A and discussion.

I unintentionally contributed to the hijacking of the, still very relevant, supply chain thread in regards to SARS-CoV-2. So here is a thread specifically for the discussion of biology, immunology, virology, and general science as it relates to the current outbreak and larger issues.

Feel free to ask questions (I'll do my best to accurately answer), provide your own thoughts, complain about response, or argue against panic and media coverage. It's all good! That said, I do reserve the right to call you out for misinformation or science rejection in as respectful a manner as possible.

Of the current drugs being trialed in patients with SARS-CoV-2, do you have any thoughts on what is going to be the most effective?

I see that lopinavir + ritonavir, remdesivir, and chloroquine/hydroxychloroquine seem to be good candidates. I wonder if a triple therapy would help and mitigate resistance.
 
For UK residents, you can get Shingles vaccine on the NHS - just talk to your local GP.

I can’t recall if I had Chickenpox as a kid (mumps and measles yes) so seeing as I am 63, might be a good idea. It’s not a nice disease from what I’ve heard and plenty of side and long term effects etc.

Re Corvid- 19, many supermarkets in the UK are out of toilet paper. I’m trying to understand why that’s on the list of things folk want to stockpile. Maybe another Facebook rumor. Problem is if a few people do it, everyone does it.

Might have to consider getting one of those butt washers fitted - take me back to my days in Japan- always squeaky clean 😀

Have a read here re chickenpox and shingles, perhaps not what you thought? Shingles vaccine overview - NHS
 
Of the current drugs being trialed in patients with SARS-CoV-2, do you have any thoughts on what is going to be the most effective?

I see that lopinavir + ritonavir, remdesivir, and chloroquine/hydroxychloroquine seem to be good candidates. I wonder if a triple therapy would help and mitigate resistance.

So, the current drug trials aren't really drug trials in the traditional sense. These are all drugs that weren't really designed with this use in mind and have widely differing mechanisms of action. So, if these drugs work, it is more luck and serendipity than anything else.

Lopinavir and ritonavir are both anti-HIV drugs in the "protease inhibitor" class; as in they were designed to stop the ability of the HIV-1 protease (protein cutter) from maturing the virus particles. Coronaviruses have a similar requirement to "pre-cut" all of the virus proteins before they are mature and have their own protease that does this. If, by chance, the proteases between HIV-1 and coronaviruses are similar enough so that the drugs can fit inside the protein, then they could be effective at preventing the virus from maturing.
PDB-101: Molecule of the Month: Coronavirus Proteases

Remdesivir is a new version of our oldest class of anti-retroviral drugs. Specifically it is a "nucleotide analogue" which is a fancy term for a molecule that is similar to single RNA nucleotides and will be mistakenly incorporated into an RNA chain by the viral replication machinery (but not ours thankfully). Once part of the viral RNA genomic sequence, it is poison that prevents the virus from using that RNA properly. However, just like the anti-protease drugs, it has to fit inside the viral RNA copy machinery to work. As it wasn't intended for that, it's a bit of a crapshoot if it does.

Chloroquine is the oddest of the bunch. It is actually the oldest anti-malaria drug we have. As malaria is a parasite, it is also the most surprising candidate. However, it works via limiting "endosomal acidification". Without getting mercilessly technical, the virus needs to enter cells via endosomes (small bubbles cells use to transport stuff around) and requires that those endosomes become acidic in pH. Apparently, by luck really, Chloroquine is able to hinder viral entry by preventing this acidic transition.

As for drug resistance, I like the way you think. I could go on for hours on drug resistance; however, in this particular scenario, it's not as necessary to worry about resistance. SARS-CoV-2 genome is surprisingly stable and we have not seen a very large number of mutations in its sequence since the start of the outbreak. Far fewer than we would with HIV-1, influenza, or even some other coronaviruses. So, until we have a good idea on exactly how well each drug works and what it does to the virus, I would argue it's probably not a great idea to combine drugs yet.
 
Am I being over paranoid?

My mother, 86, has heart and lung conditions plus diabetes. She usually spends a couple of months a year in hospital and one of her scripts requires renewing. This requires taking her to the doctor and waiting around half an hour in the waiting room.

I don't like this idea because if she just happen to get COVID-19 it wouldn't be good! I know the risk is low ATM.

Paranoia is only a problem when it adversely affects your decision making. You are right to be concerned about hospitals, or any crowded place with sick people. Following the obvious rules, stay 6 feet away, wash hands often, don't touch face, don't touch people, wash hands again, is the best defense. Unfortunately, that is most difficult in hospitals, so if you can get the medication brought out, that would be the best option by far.
 
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