High end Audio, Summed up by the $1000 10 foot power cable ... plugged into the $3 AC outlet which is then fed by 100 feet of $0.40 a foot standard house wiring.
Cheers, Audiophools
Cheers, Audiophools
In reality, you can't know much about high end audio yet say things like that. There is something going on with power cables, most likely that they act as some kind of filters. That's not to say they aren't overpriced, often they are very overpriced.
Cheers,
Mark
In plenty of websites discussing audio, and audio qualities, I've seen the argument of....
"Unless you've tried it, you cannot say things".
Particularly when, for instance, talking about a particular brand/make/product.
Just because I've "never" heard a Koetsu Bloodstone phono cartridge costing $10,000, doesn't mean I don't know if it's worth the precious bloated price.
It's a damn phono cartridge for gods sakes!
You ain't gonna nut my brain with that esoteric "hi end" brand name crap!
My feet are firmly planted on the ground, and my brain isn't up in the clouds.
"Unless you've tried it, you cannot say things".
Particularly when, for instance, talking about a particular brand/make/product.
Just because I've "never" heard a Koetsu Bloodstone phono cartridge costing $10,000, doesn't mean I don't know if it's worth the precious bloated price.
It's a damn phono cartridge for gods sakes!
You ain't gonna nut my brain with that esoteric "hi end" brand name crap!
My feet are firmly planted on the ground, and my brain isn't up in the clouds.
"one mistaken belief - and a closed mind ever since."
That principle is something I have been becoming aware of increasingly over recnt years, and it applies to all beliefs, especially those formed in childhood often on the basis of some emotional experience.
"High end Audio, Summed up by the $1000 10 foot power cable"
What about the 2m one which was second hand at £14k on Ebay, and appeared to have ordinary insulating tape around it?
That principle is something I have been becoming aware of increasingly over recnt years, and it applies to all beliefs, especially those formed in childhood often on the basis of some emotional experience.
"High end Audio, Summed up by the $1000 10 foot power cable"
What about the 2m one which was second hand at £14k on Ebay, and appeared to have ordinary insulating tape around it?
You can't know that unless you have verified and proved it. Subjective listening impression doesn't count as a proof.
+1000!
We all have excess time to burn right now. Judging from the fact that my usually fast Comcast internet is now approaching dial up speed, most people are sitting in front of a streaming device or a computer.
It took me 4 hours last night to place a $94 order to Digikey. Time out error, or "the page you request is not available."
Judging from the fact that Digikey shipped the order before I placed it, and that Tubelab board sales are at an all time low, nobody is building squat!
My soldering iron has seen more on time in the last 10 days than it did all last year...….lets see some BUILT stuff! Isn't that what DIY is all about?
Nobody’s building squat because nobody’s got any money. Even if they do, they’d best hold on to it. I’ve put the brakes on all nonessential spending for the duration - until the full economic impact of the CV19 crisis is known. No idea if I’ll be forced into early retirement, several hundred $k short of the original goal. I suspect a lot of people are in the same boat or worse, with mortgages still to pay.
If you have the luxury of a well-stocked lab, audio building can go on or even accelerate without spending a penny. I’ve been fortunate enough to stockpile thru hole parts before they go away, and while the money was still coming in. It hasn’t stopped but it might depending on how long this drags on. May be working strictly from inventory for a while, perhaps permanently, depending on the fallout.
While still “working from home” I did manage to finish the “AC300A”. An old-school amp similar to the DC300A, but AC coupled input and output. Similar topology, same voltage and power level. The same kind of bulletproof, with no output relay required. A smaller version is in progress. I’ve needed these amps for my test bench for some time. I might even get to my 200 watt 6x 6550 tube amp that’s sitting half finished right now.
If you have the luxury of a well-stocked lab, audio building can go on or even accelerate without spending a penny. I’ve been fortunate enough to stockpile thru hole parts before they go away, and while the money was still coming in. It hasn’t stopped but it might depending on how long this drags on. May be working strictly from inventory for a while, perhaps permanently, depending on the fallout.
While still “working from home” I did manage to finish the “AC300A”. An old-school amp similar to the DC300A, but AC coupled input and output. Similar topology, same voltage and power level. The same kind of bulletproof, with no output relay required. A smaller version is in progress. I’ve needed these amps for my test bench for some time. I might even get to my 200 watt 6x 6550 tube amp that’s sitting half finished right now.
+1
Now's the time to go digging through the leftover bits and see what can be cooked up rather than buying new bits!
Now's the time to go digging through the leftover bits and see what can be cooked up rather than buying new bits!
That's basically my point.
I'm on the other side of that point. I got the "you are part of a target group" letter from the CEO ending my 41 year career at Motorola three days short of 6 years ago, and about 5 years ahead of my schedule.
The "retirement" also accelerated an orderly plan to move out of a high cost, high crime (and now high virus) area (South Florida), for a quiet location about 2 miles from a small town in the middle of nowhere. What would have been a 3 to 6 month organized move turned into a 3 week scramble when my house sold in less than a week despite listing it with a young "discount realtor" who had never actually sold a house before.
I have boxes full of unfinished mysteries that haven't been opened in over 5 years. I have ripped through about a dozen, discarded about half the stuff, and picked some interesting new projects that can be completed for minimum spend.
There are two completed amps now at the "needing chassis / cabinet" stage, but the relentless rain keeps me from running my outdoor "job site" folding table saw. That makes it soldering iron time!
As far as the overprices HiFi gear goes, does anybody really NEED a car that costs over $1 MILLION. NO, but that market keeps expanding. The new 330 MPH Koenigsegg Jesko Absolut will cost over $3M
For some, it IS about how much money you spend.
I'm going to build yet another amplifier. This one will be medium power (probably about 30W or so).
The thing with the Koenigsegg is that it's actually tangible. Paying 50,000$ for 0.0001% less THD than that one did 0.01% for 25$ on the other hand is just foolish IMHO.
I prefer the range of "Good enough"
I had an 86 VW Jetta Diesel with 52 HP that was "good enough" because it handled well and it was fast enough if you drove it using the gas pedal as a switch.
Fast forward to now. I have a 2011 328xi with 230HP and I rarely have to use more than 1/2 throttle. It handles much better, it's much faster, but somehow it's not as much "fun" to drive. I would never go rally racing on dirt roads in the country with this car. Too afraid of damaging it. That VW though? No worries! Besides, it had a parking brake that would promptly lock the rear wheels, the BMW parking brake is trash.
Similar to the car situation, with my "high end" (if they were a commercial product, I would think they would be listed for at least 5000$ a piece) monoblocs, I find myself turning them on once in a while when I want to really listen to music with that volume level and headroom. I don't want to wear out the tubes.
OTOH, my "on 24/7" amp is usually just a 10W cheap amp that still sounds great, just can't crank out the power, but the tubes are way less money.
With this virus and all the crap that comes with it, I would probably have a hard time giving away an amp for nothing! Never mind that everything has crawled to a halt. I have mail that is either flying around the planet in quarantine (for the last 2 weeks), or it's sitting somewhere on the back burner and Canada post will being it when CBSA bothers to clear it.
Oh well. I have nothing but time anyway. I guess I'll just go take a toke, have a sip of tequila, and "enjoy" the rainy day 🙂
Bonne Journée!
The thing with the Koenigsegg is that it's actually tangible. Paying 50,000$ for 0.0001% less THD than that one did 0.01% for 25$ on the other hand is just foolish IMHO.
I prefer the range of "Good enough"
I had an 86 VW Jetta Diesel with 52 HP that was "good enough" because it handled well and it was fast enough if you drove it using the gas pedal as a switch.
Fast forward to now. I have a 2011 328xi with 230HP and I rarely have to use more than 1/2 throttle. It handles much better, it's much faster, but somehow it's not as much "fun" to drive. I would never go rally racing on dirt roads in the country with this car. Too afraid of damaging it. That VW though? No worries! Besides, it had a parking brake that would promptly lock the rear wheels, the BMW parking brake is trash.
Similar to the car situation, with my "high end" (if they were a commercial product, I would think they would be listed for at least 5000$ a piece) monoblocs, I find myself turning them on once in a while when I want to really listen to music with that volume level and headroom. I don't want to wear out the tubes.
OTOH, my "on 24/7" amp is usually just a 10W cheap amp that still sounds great, just can't crank out the power, but the tubes are way less money.
With this virus and all the crap that comes with it, I would probably have a hard time giving away an amp for nothing! Never mind that everything has crawled to a halt. I have mail that is either flying around the planet in quarantine (for the last 2 weeks), or it's sitting somewhere on the back burner and Canada post will being it when CBSA bothers to clear it.
Oh well. I have nothing but time anyway. I guess I'll just go take a toke, have a sip of tequila, and "enjoy" the rainy day 🙂
Bonne Journée!
Here is the idle RTA in-car measurement of a 1998 modern high quality (performance) turbo-diesel sedan car :
You should notice that all manufacturers measurements are given with the "A" weighting :
The REAL high end is everything that occur under 100Hz, totally out of scope of the normal uneducated consumer.
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Sometime around 2010, myself and 3 other guys were walking out of the plant for lunch one day when a coworker pulls up in his new car and offered us a ride. Once we were underway he asked us if anyone noticed anything unusual about his new ride. After a moment of silence, I replied that it was a Diesel, and he asked how I could tell. I replied that the tach only went up to 4500 RPM. It was a quiet and totally clatter free car a VW sedan of some sort, Jetta maybe.
I had plenty of fast cars in my lifetime, many with DIY improvements, but when It started taking me longer to drive to work that it did to walk, I learned to drive a POS, since it's going to get banged up anyway.
Several years back we had a Hundred Buck Amp Challenge, where the trick was to design and build a playable vacuum tube guitar amp for less than $100 in parts content. It got ugly with half of the thread spent arguing about the definition of "tube amp." Maybe it's time for a Zero Buck Amp Challenge.....no money spent, and anything goes. Tube, transistor, or chip....HiFi or guitar, clean and pretty, or ugly but functional. What can you make with what you have?
I have been going through boxes and I found a bunch of old chips that the National Semi sales engineer gave me to make some MIDI guitar amps in the 1980's. Ever hear of an LMC835 digitally controlled graphic equalizer chip? I also found about 20 really old LM3886 chips. How many of them can you wire in parallel before they turn on each other?
Tubes, I have plenty, including a big box full of 1940's style metal tubes......time for the MetallicAmp, all tubes, no glass! What could have Leo Fender built in 1950 if cost wasn't the main design criteria.
I had plenty of fast cars in my lifetime, many with DIY improvements, but when It started taking me longer to drive to work that it did to walk, I learned to drive a POS, since it's going to get banged up anyway.
Several years back we had a Hundred Buck Amp Challenge, where the trick was to design and build a playable vacuum tube guitar amp for less than $100 in parts content. It got ugly with half of the thread spent arguing about the definition of "tube amp." Maybe it's time for a Zero Buck Amp Challenge.....no money spent, and anything goes. Tube, transistor, or chip....HiFi or guitar, clean and pretty, or ugly but functional. What can you make with what you have?
I have been going through boxes and I found a bunch of old chips that the National Semi sales engineer gave me to make some MIDI guitar amps in the 1980's. Ever hear of an LMC835 digitally controlled graphic equalizer chip? I also found about 20 really old LM3886 chips. How many of them can you wire in parallel before they turn on each other?
Tubes, I have plenty, including a big box full of 1940's style metal tubes......time for the MetallicAmp, all tubes, no glass! What could have Leo Fender built in 1950 if cost wasn't the main design criteria.
Tubelab_com
Old parts, other old parts, . . . Decisions, decisions.
My college professor described his move to the midwest.
It was his first day to go to the new job; it was very icy outside.
He said goodby to his wife, got in the car and started to drive, but the car slid badly.
He went back inside, told his wife it was not safe to drive, he was going to walk.
After falling down a few times, he went back inside, and told his wife that he was going to drive.
Old parts, other old parts, . . . Decisions, decisions.
My college professor described his move to the midwest.
It was his first day to go to the new job; it was very icy outside.
He said goodby to his wife, got in the car and started to drive, but the car slid badly.
He went back inside, told his wife it was not safe to drive, he was going to walk.
After falling down a few times, he went back inside, and told his wife that he was going to drive.
The integrated stereo amp that I made last year cost me next to nothing.
A Hammond chassis from Mouser, some aluminum trim from Home Depot, control pots from Parts Express,... the rest I had laying around....(wood, HK amp board, trans, caps, etc.
It belts out smooth clear sound into a pair of hungry AR LST's to window rattling volume.
Here it is at my next door neighbor's house for an audition.... (sitting on top the left LST speaker)
I dare anyone to critisize its performance.
A Hammond chassis from Mouser, some aluminum trim from Home Depot, control pots from Parts Express,... the rest I had laying around....(wood, HK amp board, trans, caps, etc.
It belts out smooth clear sound into a pair of hungry AR LST's to window rattling volume.
Here it is at my next door neighbor's house for an audition.... (sitting on top the left LST speaker)
I dare anyone to critisize its performance.
Attachments
From Tubelab;
"As far as the overprices HiFi gear goes, does anybody really NEED a car that costs over $1 MILLION. NO, but that market keeps expanding. The new 330 MPH Koenigsegg Jesko Absolut will cost over $3M
For some, it IS about how much money you spend."
With a car there are obvious measurable and supposedly 'beneficial' performance benefits to a greater spend - a better performance that is tangible.
The diminishing returns in Hi-Fi make spending a lot seem ridiculous to most of us, and only the really rich can do so without concerns; they may well just want to show it off with their Cezannes and other opulence in their mansions.
Given my low financial status I have spent a lot on my Hi-Fi because I think that teams of well qualified guys can do better with their resources than I can at home.
When I was younger and poorer, and when Hi-Fi was in its infancy, it was possible to beat many commercial products cheaply using personal skills, and I do not think that that applies now.
"As far as the overprices HiFi gear goes, does anybody really NEED a car that costs over $1 MILLION. NO, but that market keeps expanding. The new 330 MPH Koenigsegg Jesko Absolut will cost over $3M
For some, it IS about how much money you spend."
With a car there are obvious measurable and supposedly 'beneficial' performance benefits to a greater spend - a better performance that is tangible.
The diminishing returns in Hi-Fi make spending a lot seem ridiculous to most of us, and only the really rich can do so without concerns; they may well just want to show it off with their Cezannes and other opulence in their mansions.
Given my low financial status I have spent a lot on my Hi-Fi because I think that teams of well qualified guys can do better with their resources than I can at home.
When I was younger and poorer, and when Hi-Fi was in its infancy, it was possible to beat many commercial products cheaply using personal skills, and I do not think that that applies now.
Sometimes I think it is the fun of the chase. Mulling over the various DIY plans, ordering parts, building it, trouble shooting if needed, casing it and finally sitting down for a listen.
As a teenager with a ham license, the Drake and Collins gear was out of my reach. Heathkits on the other end of prices was something I could work towards buying.
All this to say I have been building various electronics since those teen years. Discovering this forum six years ago was a delight for me.
As a teenager with a ham license, the Drake and Collins gear was out of my reach. Heathkits on the other end of prices was something I could work towards buying.
All this to say I have been building various electronics since those teen years. Discovering this forum six years ago was a delight for me.
Some of us find little gems cast off as junk around here...but I'm afraid there are those around who already know this.
I'm constantly on the lookout for trashed TVs' that show up from time to time on the corners of vacant lots around here. These corner lots are regularly "cleaned" of the accumulated stuff...sort of a dumpster thing in other countries.
If I get a "first look" at something, more & more likely they are getting stripped of the audio portion of the boards. As it stands I have obtained several amp-chips that I have reworked, repackaged & put into service.
Zero cost...
-------------------------------------------------------------------Rick..........-