A big change for me has been that with a new speaker which is extremely good on pure choral opera, which I regard as a substantial test which many fail, much other genre music often sounds bad.
So in conclusion I am coming to realise that the latter probably never really was all that good, and that fact was previously masked by speaker failings, hidden from perception.
So in conclusion I am coming to realise that the latter probably never really was all that good, and that fact was previously masked by speaker failings, hidden from perception.
Yep. Good for you for not being so over-certain that you could not see the problem.
A lot of music has been poorly recorded over the years. And some great music that is decidedly lofi. But the greatness still shines through!
If you really think about it, our speakers have the hardest job of all. The actual conversion of one form of energy into another. Consider all those Stradivarius violins making music that could never be repeated again, that energy of the music lost in the past.
It was only much later with the mastery of electricity that we were able to preserve the event. The technology is on three fronts, microphones to convert sound pressure to this new-fangled electricity, a storage medium to preserve it, amplification to raise the electrical levels to a level whereby the fourth & final element can revert the electricity back to its original form.
Considering todays technology, the final stage should be our main focus, as the three proceeding stages are merely splitting hairs.
----------------------------------------------------------------------Rick......
It was only much later with the mastery of electricity that we were able to preserve the event. The technology is on three fronts, microphones to convert sound pressure to this new-fangled electricity, a storage medium to preserve it, amplification to raise the electrical levels to a level whereby the fourth & final element can revert the electricity back to its original form.
Considering todays technology, the final stage should be our main focus, as the three proceeding stages are merely splitting hairs.
----------------------------------------------------------------------Rick......
* Somebodies gotta do it, might as well be me!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------Rick............
It might seem that way to some. Personally, I have heard problems with dacs while using Yamaha NS-10 speakers, JBL M2 speakers, and Sound Lab electrostat speakers (headphones too). The dac sound is always audibly there.
Of course, better speakers are nice too, but the point is that everything matters for audio sound quality to some of us. For others, its just one area of audio like speakers/rooms. I tend to focus on dacs. It never has been the speakers that I found most objectionable.
Also, I'm not alone in my point of view. I know people who don't think digital audio has ever been as good as phono or tape. Something about it they still don't like the sound of, although they admit its slowly getting better. A clue is that they tend to like DSD better than PCM, its worth more investigation I think.
Last edited:
I love reading these threads - I always say take your ears shopping when buying something that you are going to listen to.
This topic is so subjective - if you like the sound then buy it.
What I like to hear may be very different to what you like.
This topic is so subjective - if you like the sound then buy it.
What I like to hear may be very different to what you like.
If I may suggest a modification to your advice: If you like the sound of it constantly for several hours straight without wanting to go do something else instead, then buy it.
Mark, there was no time line to my comment. I agree that it is lovely to listen to music for hours at a time.
In none level matched and bias uncontrolled listening session as RN Marsh admitted. Subjective listening impression is not a supporting evidence.
Good for you for not being so sensitive to the speakers and room acoustics weakness.
You aren't alone to discredit the value of DBT due to "false negative" and "false positive".
I think that Mark was alluding to listening fatigue.
To me loudspeakers are the obvious flawed weak link, 1930s technology worked at and worked at with no massive breakthroughs, just incremental changes to a primitive arrangement.
The failings of the electronics are there, and audible in some cases, but we have our own 'inner filters' and we are selective in our attention.
Consider ten pairs of 'no holds barred' speakers, top notch, even the array of drivers will give very different presentations, and even if the drivers were perfect this would probably be so.
With equipment I treat it like trying a new food, taste it, try a little more, mull over it, and if it seems OK then see how it works in the diet and its effect on the body.
To me loudspeakers are the obvious flawed weak link, 1930s technology worked at and worked at with no massive breakthroughs, just incremental changes to a primitive arrangement.
The failings of the electronics are there, and audible in some cases, but we have our own 'inner filters' and we are selective in our attention.
Consider ten pairs of 'no holds barred' speakers, top notch, even the array of drivers will give very different presentations, and even if the drivers were perfect this would probably be so.
With equipment I treat it like trying a new food, taste it, try a little more, mull over it, and if it seems OK then see how it works in the diet and its effect on the body.
That depends on the type of listening. Many people I know listen to background music for hours everyday. Now if you do critical listening for hours everyday, it may get on your nerves one way or another no matter the price of DAC. 😉
Someone here has the signature that goes something like "The measure of something's value is the satisfaction it gives you - there is no other measure".
So if a purchase doesnt give you satisfaction, simply return it in this "free shipping / free returns" economy. However, it's presumptuous to judge something as "what a joke" while never even had tried it yourself. I realize there's only so much time in a day - or a life.
My more recent "try something new";
- Various FR speakers. Satisfaction. Keep.
- Aune T1. Satisfaction. Keep.
- Asus U7 USB. Dis-satisfaction. Sell.
- 2X4 miniDSP. Dis-satisfaction. Sell.
- Zoudio Amp. Satisfaction. Keep.
- Jolida jd1301. Satisfaction. Keep.
Certainly it behooves us to try new things, as was already pointed out, unless we experience what we're missing - we can easily trod along not knowing - for decades.
This happened to me with FR speakers. I had judged them incorrectly as a kid (Apparently I heard too much IM distortion in just one example - when cranked) and lost the opportunity to hear the beauty of what they can do for at least another 40+ years. All those years when my ears were "better than" they are today; one mistaken belief - and a closed mind ever since.
So if a purchase doesnt give you satisfaction, simply return it in this "free shipping / free returns" economy. However, it's presumptuous to judge something as "what a joke" while never even had tried it yourself. I realize there's only so much time in a day - or a life.
My more recent "try something new";
- Various FR speakers. Satisfaction. Keep.
- Aune T1. Satisfaction. Keep.
- Asus U7 USB. Dis-satisfaction. Sell.
- 2X4 miniDSP. Dis-satisfaction. Sell.
- Zoudio Amp. Satisfaction. Keep.
- Jolida jd1301. Satisfaction. Keep.
Certainly it behooves us to try new things, as was already pointed out, unless we experience what we're missing - we can easily trod along not knowing - for decades.
This happened to me with FR speakers. I had judged them incorrectly as a kid (Apparently I heard too much IM distortion in just one example - when cranked) and lost the opportunity to hear the beauty of what they can do for at least another 40+ years. All those years when my ears were "better than" they are today; one mistaken belief - and a closed mind ever since.
Last edited:
That's the old worn out mantra used by audio businessmen for decades. For the protection against sucker-ism, what needs to face that is the understanding of technicalities. For example, DAC technology has already been matured to the point of providing audible transparency even at entry level price and yet there are those touting "improved", "better" sound even further beyond audible range from a $5K DAC and try to push it by saying unless you tried it, you don't know what you're missing.
A simpler example, you already know that you shouldn't put your hand in boiling water because you understand the basic physics. Then there comes a salesman touting some liquid that you can put in the boiling water that makes it safe to put your hand in and retrieve the food you are cooking. Would you even bother to take him seriously when he says "unless you tried it, you don't know what you're missing"?