Horses for course
Although it looks like I'm going back to the dark ages, (seeing how fast this thread is moving) I just thought I'd express my recent findings.
I finished my FE168Esigs and first listening tests were good but...well a bit muffled compared to really good speakers. I think I over-damped them (putting a single 3/4" sheet of recycled compressed wool felt from the top of the internal baffle to 1" under the driver, and another piece in the bottom of the cab).
Today I took it all out, just leaving a square behind the driver and a rectangle in the bottom of the box - nothing above the driver at all. Suddenly the detail is there and wow what detail these drivers give. Awesome. The most natural sounding speaker I have ever heard -and I own them!😀
Only tiny niggle is a slight bit of insistance in the mid voice range. Not so you'd notice instanly, but after 3 hours of listening quite load, you realise that this range has worn a bit on your senses if you know what I mean.
Is this quite normal for full range drivers or is there still a bit of tweaking to do?
Bass is there to about mid 30Htz but only just. I hope they will warm up a bit as the bass loosens, althoug I did a long run in period out of the boxes.
Will post pics when I have finished them (Danish oil and varnish to go yet).
Cheers chaps for all the advice
I'm off back to the Hifi!
Although it looks like I'm going back to the dark ages, (seeing how fast this thread is moving) I just thought I'd express my recent findings.
I finished my FE168Esigs and first listening tests were good but...well a bit muffled compared to really good speakers. I think I over-damped them (putting a single 3/4" sheet of recycled compressed wool felt from the top of the internal baffle to 1" under the driver, and another piece in the bottom of the cab).
Today I took it all out, just leaving a square behind the driver and a rectangle in the bottom of the box - nothing above the driver at all. Suddenly the detail is there and wow what detail these drivers give. Awesome. The most natural sounding speaker I have ever heard -and I own them!😀
Only tiny niggle is a slight bit of insistance in the mid voice range. Not so you'd notice instanly, but after 3 hours of listening quite load, you realise that this range has worn a bit on your senses if you know what I mean.
Is this quite normal for full range drivers or is there still a bit of tweaking to do?
Bass is there to about mid 30Htz but only just. I hope they will warm up a bit as the bass loosens, althoug I did a long run in period out of the boxes.
Will post pics when I have finished them (Danish oil and varnish to go yet).
Cheers chaps for all the advice
I'm off back to the Hifi!
Re: Horses for course
The sigmas seem to need quite a few hours on them to smooth out... at least a 100 hrs, and then a much slower rate of change for 100s of more.
dave
Martin Prothero said:
The sigmas seem to need quite a few hours on them to smooth out... at least a 100 hrs, and then a much slower rate of change for 100s of more.
dave
Hi Martin, I'm not surprised the 3/4" felt muffled the sound. I placed 1/2" felt from just
below the driver to near the point on the inner baffle and one side, and noticed the sound
a little muffled. I split the felt in half (now 1/4") and replaced it. I also took out the polyfil
in the bottom, teased it out and replaced it with about half as much. The improvement was
striking. But my cabs are made of 3.3cm thick particle board, and it's properties may be a
little different to ply. For what it's worth, I coated all the insides with many coats of black
shellac. Don't know if it helped, but I don't think it hurt, and it looks good when you look in.
Yes the 168s are ever improving.
John
below the driver to near the point on the inner baffle and one side, and noticed the sound
a little muffled. I split the felt in half (now 1/4") and replaced it. I also took out the polyfil
in the bottom, teased it out and replaced it with about half as much. The improvement was
striking. But my cabs are made of 3.3cm thick particle board, and it's properties may be a
little different to ply. For what it's worth, I coated all the insides with many coats of black
shellac. Don't know if it helped, but I don't think it hurt, and it looks good when you look in.
Yes the 168s are ever improving.
John
After having read most if not all of this huge thread I have decided to give a BIB FE206e build a try. I am currently running the Decware modified 206 in some HDT's. Does anyone have information on what I will gain or lose between a good BIB box and the HDT's with the same driver?
I don't know the HDTs other than what I've read on the Decware site, but the BIB should kill it in terms of dynamics and efficiency, and is likely to go a fair bit lower. Flip side is the response might not be as technically smooth.
Steve Deckert very much believes in the tweako Decware-job 206, so this might really work well. Good luck. Full ahead.
Meantime, we are listening to Genesis, and Dire Straits with the FF165K BIB's with almost no damping, save the usual, one side, fluffy the cat stuffed into the bottom, and hotrodded T2020 batTery amp with Jensen coupling caps, Joule Electra LA150 6SN7 pre amp, and the Sony Playstation, and MAAAAN what gorilla? V. nice. Also, once again, octal triode driver tubes with T amps are killy!
Meantime, we are listening to Genesis, and Dire Straits with the FF165K BIB's with almost no damping, save the usual, one side, fluffy the cat stuffed into the bottom, and hotrodded T2020 batTery amp with Jensen coupling caps, Joule Electra LA150 6SN7 pre amp, and the Sony Playstation, and MAAAAN what gorilla? V. nice. Also, once again, octal triode driver tubes with T amps are killy!
BiB for Hemp fr8
Hey guys
I need dims for Hemp fr8 in BiB
I not sure how to break down
size from godzillas site.
can someone give me HxWxD
also baffle distance from bottom of cab.
and speaker placement from top.
Scott
Hey guys
I need dims for Hemp fr8 in BiB
I not sure how to break down
size from godzillas site.
can someone give me HxWxD
also baffle distance from bottom of cab.
and speaker placement from top.
Scott
Bib vs. Tapped horn
After browsing the subwoofer forum, in particular the collaborative tapped horn project, I noticed how similar that tapped horn is to the Bib! An FE166E or FF165k is most likely in my future (just a few more honey-do's first). BUT, after looking at William Cowan's Tapped horns, I plugged in an FE206 into his 30Hz design. I was able to get the "peaks around the dip" to within 1.5 dbs. He claims the tap "evens out" the response which would place the average spl of the low end at about 100 dbs. I guess my question is, would this tapped horn be a viable slightly more efficient option to a bib? Or would putting the driver inside the box with walls alongside screw everything all up??
http://diy.cowanaudio.com/ tapped horns on the left
After browsing the subwoofer forum, in particular the collaborative tapped horn project, I noticed how similar that tapped horn is to the Bib! An FE166E or FF165k is most likely in my future (just a few more honey-do's first). BUT, after looking at William Cowan's Tapped horns, I plugged in an FE206 into his 30Hz design. I was able to get the "peaks around the dip" to within 1.5 dbs. He claims the tap "evens out" the response which would place the average spl of the low end at about 100 dbs. I guess my question is, would this tapped horn be a viable slightly more efficient option to a bib? Or would putting the driver inside the box with walls alongside screw everything all up??
http://diy.cowanaudio.com/ tapped horns on the left
If you search this thread or the Zilla pages you'll find how to do it. It's not hard. Make life easy and just use length /2 = cabinet height. It'll get you close enough. WxD ratio = 1:1.4142. Terminate the internal baffle equidistant from the front & rear walls and the floor of the cabinet. Zdriver distance is centre of the driver to the top of the cabinet.
Er yes. Putting the driver inside would mess things up in a sense. You could add tweeters etc to give you some of the HF back so you end up with a semi-omni. Not a bad idea, but not the easiest to implement
Er yes. Putting the driver inside would mess things up in a sense. You could add tweeters etc to give you some of the HF back so you end up with a semi-omni. Not a bad idea, but not the easiest to implement
Guys, I got back from London last night. I was on the front row of Loreena McKennitt's concert Tuesday evening in the Barbican centre. I was incredibly lucky, because I was in direct line of vision with her. Her group were stunning, amongst the best musicians I've ever heard, bar none -and yet I quite literally couldn't take my eyes off her.
If anyone else has heard Loreena's albums, and wonders, is she really as good as that on stage, the answer is an unqualified 'she's better.' I knew that if anyone had a chance of knocking my previous number one concert off the top peg, it was her. And she did. But I didn't realise in advance just how conclusively she'd do it. I'm now in the situation for live music that I am for theatre. 18 years ago, I saw Jeremy Brett on stage as Sherlock Holmes in a 2 hander with Edward Hardwicke. I walked out (aged 10) swearing I would never see anything that good in theatrical terms again. And I haven't. Fast forward nearly two decades, I left the Barbican on Tuesday, with Loreena's autographed picture (God, she's a lovely person) clamped in hand, knowing full well I'll never see any live music that good again, period, whatever the genre.
Suggestion: have a look at her website, www.quinlanroad.com and find out if she's anywhere near you as she tours over the next month. And go. I don't care if it's not normally your sort of music, I don't care if you've never heard of her before: believe me, you will not regret it for one instant. Half the people on Tuesday (2,000 of us -it was a total sell-out) left at the end, shell-shocked, or in tears, self included. And everyone had lost their hearts to her, musically speaking. That's how she can affect her audience. The sheer joy of that performance is something you will never experience again.
Can't do that? I beg, beseech and implore you, go out, and buy her latest album, An Ancient Muse. I won't need to advise those who see her live to do this, because they'll have already opened their wallets, and probably be asking if they can pay double the asking price. I've had it since it was released -the recording is reference quality (done at Peter Gabriel's Real World by people who love what they do), the music is as good as it gets by stunningly talented people. It's full-range, synths in the 20Hz regions, blends of Celtic, African, Islamic and other textures and rhythms, and Loreena's glorious, mystic soprano vocals floating through the centre. Perfect horn material. You need to hear this album, and you need to hear it through BIBs, other more advanced horn designs, or dipoles. Nothing else will do it justice. I defy anyone not to hear Beneath A Phrygian Sky (track 8) and not feel every hair stand on end. Loreena has picked up where she had to leave off 8 years ago with The Book of Secrets; the changes and progressions are subtle, but it's a more advanced piece all round, with a far wider scope (as if Book of Secrets wasn't wide / advanced enough already). I'm understating rather than exaggerating here by the way. You'll understand when you hear it though. Trust me -this will be amongst the best few pounds / dollars / whatever you'll ever spend on music.
If anyone else has heard Loreena's albums, and wonders, is she really as good as that on stage, the answer is an unqualified 'she's better.' I knew that if anyone had a chance of knocking my previous number one concert off the top peg, it was her. And she did. But I didn't realise in advance just how conclusively she'd do it. I'm now in the situation for live music that I am for theatre. 18 years ago, I saw Jeremy Brett on stage as Sherlock Holmes in a 2 hander with Edward Hardwicke. I walked out (aged 10) swearing I would never see anything that good in theatrical terms again. And I haven't. Fast forward nearly two decades, I left the Barbican on Tuesday, with Loreena's autographed picture (God, she's a lovely person) clamped in hand, knowing full well I'll never see any live music that good again, period, whatever the genre.
Suggestion: have a look at her website, www.quinlanroad.com and find out if she's anywhere near you as she tours over the next month. And go. I don't care if it's not normally your sort of music, I don't care if you've never heard of her before: believe me, you will not regret it for one instant. Half the people on Tuesday (2,000 of us -it was a total sell-out) left at the end, shell-shocked, or in tears, self included. And everyone had lost their hearts to her, musically speaking. That's how she can affect her audience. The sheer joy of that performance is something you will never experience again.
Can't do that? I beg, beseech and implore you, go out, and buy her latest album, An Ancient Muse. I won't need to advise those who see her live to do this, because they'll have already opened their wallets, and probably be asking if they can pay double the asking price. I've had it since it was released -the recording is reference quality (done at Peter Gabriel's Real World by people who love what they do), the music is as good as it gets by stunningly talented people. It's full-range, synths in the 20Hz regions, blends of Celtic, African, Islamic and other textures and rhythms, and Loreena's glorious, mystic soprano vocals floating through the centre. Perfect horn material. You need to hear this album, and you need to hear it through BIBs, other more advanced horn designs, or dipoles. Nothing else will do it justice. I defy anyone not to hear Beneath A Phrygian Sky (track 8) and not feel every hair stand on end. Loreena has picked up where she had to leave off 8 years ago with The Book of Secrets; the changes and progressions are subtle, but it's a more advanced piece all round, with a far wider scope (as if Book of Secrets wasn't wide / advanced enough already). I'm understating rather than exaggerating here by the way. You'll understand when you hear it though. Trust me -this will be amongst the best few pounds / dollars / whatever you'll ever spend on music.
My friend, I will spend the rest of my life trying as best I can to recreate that sound, that voice, that presence and that atmosphere. I'll never do it. But my God, am I going to try. 'Life-changing' about sums it up, and again, I am not exaggerating -it's confirmed some of my views on sonics, changed far more. My love of horns and dipoles has been confirmed a thousandfold. Possibly arrays too though my mental jury is still trying to sort itself and its views out.
Believe me, I of all people understand! Every time I hear some great orchestral passages I think....oh man.
The latest was when I poked my head into a rehearsal of Julius Ceasar in Vienna with Rene Jacobs conducting and being totally spellbound! Lucky I got the job I auditioned for with him! ; ) can't wait!
Stroop
The latest was when I poked my head into a rehearsal of Julius Ceasar in Vienna with Rene Jacobs conducting and being totally spellbound! Lucky I got the job I auditioned for with him! ; ) can't wait!
Stroop
No, it's not Patrick Stewart 😉 (although funnily enough, Loreena was asked some years ago if she would join the RSC): it's Douglas Campbell, a very fine Scotish born actor who's spent most of his career on stage in Canada. Lullaby was composed for the Stratford (Ontario) festival -he's something of an institution there I believe as he was one of the first performers when it began in 1953.
Scottmoose said:
May 18 & 19th at the Royal Theatre...
Scott, did you get to the Wailin' Jennys show in your neck of the woods?
dave
Hope you manage to get there Dave. You won't ever forget it.
I didn't, curse the luck -that was one of the nights I had to teach & I couldn't get out of it (I tried every trick I could think of. Unfortunately, the guys at Blaydes know me too well 😉 )
I didn't, curse the luck -that was one of the nights I had to teach & I couldn't get out of it (I tried every trick I could think of. Unfortunately, the guys at Blaydes know me too well 😉 )
I’ve been listening to Loreena all day today. The Bonny Swans Live in Paris is quite beautiful. Even after swapping my BIBs for the Pioneer/Piezos she still sounds great.
The BIBs (165k) sound much clearer, richer and alive compared to the Pioneer/Piezo but they are about one third the cost and half the weight.
The B20 sounds all boxed up in comparison. Much less detail, etc. Violins sound like they are coming from the boxes rather than floating in air. The image has totally shrunk compared to the BIBs. It’s a little depressing actually.
The BIBs (165k) sound much clearer, richer and alive compared to the Pioneer/Piezo but they are about one third the cost and half the weight.
The B20 sounds all boxed up in comparison. Much less detail, etc. Violins sound like they are coming from the boxes rather than floating in air. The image has totally shrunk compared to the BIBs. It’s a little depressing actually.
I knew you were a man of taste Jeff. 😉 On the up-side, for what they can offer, the BIBs are pretty good value for money.
But that concert is why for my personal listening, I'm with horns or dipoles from now on. Will they get me there again? No. But they'll get me closer than anything else ever will. I will never, ever forget what it was like to see Loreena perform, how playful she was on stage, and how loving the atmosphere of the whole event was, for everyone. Wonderful.
BTW -she's got a DVD out in the autumn of her live Alhambra set last year. HD, wonderful mix, music to die for. Music also on two CDs in the box. It's a tour exclusive at the moment -mine is currently lurking in my DVD player, and it's not coming out for a while, belive me. 🙂
But that concert is why for my personal listening, I'm with horns or dipoles from now on. Will they get me there again? No. But they'll get me closer than anything else ever will. I will never, ever forget what it was like to see Loreena perform, how playful she was on stage, and how loving the atmosphere of the whole event was, for everyone. Wonderful.
BTW -she's got a DVD out in the autumn of her live Alhambra set last year. HD, wonderful mix, music to die for. Music also on two CDs in the box. It's a tour exclusive at the moment -mine is currently lurking in my DVD player, and it's not coming out for a while, belive me. 🙂
Is it just me or....?
Can someone check on if the email notifications of new posts in a a topic is working correctly?
I have not been getting my email notifications from DIY audio and check them every day.
Can someone check on if the email notifications of new posts in a a topic is working correctly?
I have not been getting my email notifications from DIY audio and check them every day.