Re: BIB tweaks
Greets!
Thanks for the feedback! Glad somebody finally tried it after all these years of periodically suggesting it. Anyway, glad it's giving you more positive results than other damping schemes you've tried so far.
GM
loninappleton said:
Greets!
Thanks for the feedback! Glad somebody finally tried it after all these years of periodically suggesting it. Anyway, glad it's giving you more positive results than other damping schemes you've tried so far.
GM
This I have got to try. I've just got hold of some of the Monacor drivers cheap, so I'll do a regular cabinet for them & experiment with this on it. Got a more complicated 126 chambered version in the works as well.
I recently finished a second BIB for a new pair FF165K. These things excel. They kill the 168 in my opinion. These are MDF mules, and I have three blanks of 3/4 marine grade ply from Western Marine, coming tomorrow. Scott, do you have any ideas on DIMS for a monolith type driver loading? I have in mind a small suprabaffle, like the pic of Chris' PAWO's of bamboo, cherry, with cherry veneer, mahogany stained, oiled, waxed. Mmmmm
Is there a technique/substance for dying the kenaf cone black? I am going to prime and paint the visible part of the frame black.
Also, I guess my ears are aging or whatever, but I do NOT find any need for the supertweeter with the 165. These things are about the ultimate DIY speaker. Audio Alchemy, just a cruel joke, just how much juice you can wring out of these drivers, with this design. These seem to have more dynamic jump than the Sigmae. I had the neighbor guy in, listening to highly dynamic Rachmaninoff's 'Variations on a Theme from Purcell,' and the BIB's really bark; in fact, about the best presentation of massed strings I have heard. Very nice lively sound with 2.5 watt amp, www.ramlabs-musicreference.com/6EM7-13EM7.html and they do piano exceptionally well. The Moog solo on "Lucky Man" hits the bottom-most note with thunder, and you can easily hear the crackling of electricity through the old analogue oscillators, clearly hear the detuned nature of that patch... Extremely musical. A+++
Is there a technique/substance for dying the kenaf cone black? I am going to prime and paint the visible part of the frame black.
Also, I guess my ears are aging or whatever, but I do NOT find any need for the supertweeter with the 165. These things are about the ultimate DIY speaker. Audio Alchemy, just a cruel joke, just how much juice you can wring out of these drivers, with this design. These seem to have more dynamic jump than the Sigmae. I had the neighbor guy in, listening to highly dynamic Rachmaninoff's 'Variations on a Theme from Purcell,' and the BIB's really bark; in fact, about the best presentation of massed strings I have heard. Very nice lively sound with 2.5 watt amp, www.ramlabs-musicreference.com/6EM7-13EM7.html and they do piano exceptionally well. The Moog solo on "Lucky Man" hits the bottom-most note with thunder, and you can easily hear the crackling of electricity through the old analogue oscillators, clearly hear the detuned nature of that patch... Extremely musical. A+++
Has another of my emails gone into a black hole? That's the third time this week I've had one go astray -sorry Dan. I wrote up some dims for two monolith variations and sent them on Tuesday. Bad. I'll re-send.
dmason said:
If one assummes that these cones will get the same benfit as the banana cones from a judicail (ie vanishingly little) puzzlecoat, a little black ink (i have some vintage Peerless ink) will get you there. It really is a dark-dark blue.
I recently did another pair of black (on their way to the UK) and did a 1st coat of dark brown, which seemed to counter the bluish tinge)
dave
Attachments
GM suggested (or I interpreted his suggestion) that a fiber
'pennant' be suspended down the mouth. A pennant shape is the
width of the horn mouth and tapers down the length of the
internal divider.
I actually tried this with good success.
Hi!
I have a hard time to grasp what's written here but this is what I've been living with the last three months. As GM suggested I've added 2mm felt from the BAF behind the driver, down the internal baffle and up on the other side approx 20 cm. This felt is also on the front baffle down to the base.
The visible damping as per picture is not BAF. It's a spray cabin filter which has much less damping properties.
Dan, pictures are coming? Hmm, must try whizzer free drivers also!
'pennant' be suspended down the mouth. A pennant shape is the
width of the horn mouth and tapers down the length of the
internal divider.
I actually tried this with good success.
Hi!
I have a hard time to grasp what's written here but this is what I've been living with the last three months. As GM suggested I've added 2mm felt from the BAF behind the driver, down the internal baffle and up on the other side approx 20 cm. This felt is also on the front baffle down to the base.
The visible damping as per picture is not BAF. It's a spray cabin filter which has much less damping properties.
Dan, pictures are coming? Hmm, must try whizzer free drivers also!
Attachments
Dave
If you get a bluish tone of the ink, it's a soluble dye. What you can do is pre treat the cone with only what you call ink, and then tint the puzzle coat also. It will not affect the cone, due to the low solids in the ink. This blueish tone is typical of dyes when it's diluted too much.
If you are not sure about result, try on a piece of paper first!
BTW, is the puzzle coat solvent or water born?
Regards
Peter
If you get a bluish tone of the ink, it's a soluble dye. What you can do is pre treat the cone with only what you call ink, and then tint the puzzle coat also. It will not affect the cone, due to the low solids in the ink. This blueish tone is typical of dyes when it's diluted too much.
If you are not sure about result, try on a piece of paper first!
BTW, is the puzzle coat solvent or water born?
Regards
Peter
Greets!
It's similar, the filter goes diagonally (corner to corner), so that it damps any reflections in both planes, and not just in one, as yours does.
GM
It's similar, the filter goes diagonally (corner to corner), so that it damps any reflections in both planes, and not just in one, as yours does.
GM
planet10 said:
Amen. If I can get my software to play ball, which thus far, I haven't. I hate Microsoft... that Mac with PC port is calling me, and come the summer, it will have my name on it. The time has come, the walrus said, to ditch the garbage and shift to something that works properly. Make a nice change, that. 😉 PS -you have mail re wide-loads.
GM said:
Peter doesn't understand my writing and I don't understand his
picture-- unless it is just hanging there between the 2 sides.
This tweak is not settled yet, but I always follow GM's advice at least on a trial basis.
The pennant piece I have looks like a right angle triagle with a
long tail. It's just a piece of scrap foam carpet padding.
The goal would be to get the right sort of material in that odd length
and shape to hang straight down into the mouth (and on the diagonal as GM suggests.) I don't know if the suspended pennant
should be tight to the wall for instance or waving in the breeze.
For twiddlers like me it's a nice tweak. Free.
But what is the ideal material for this?
To review: My BIB for FE127 has a 1 in. layer of poly fill at the base,
some poly stuck up in the peak and now the pennant. No other interior or suprabaffle treatments. I also use a grille (cadged from
a line array about the same shape) made of a double knit fabric stretched over framing designed for screen doors. The grille frame
stile and rail channel and installation tool came from Home Depot.
I have to have grilles. For me it finishes off a build.
Scottmoose said:
Mail me... we'll see if we can get it sorted... you can also download Eudora, which is pretty bullet proof.
dave
Greets!
FWIW I use 1" acoustic fiberglass insulation like is bonded to heat/AC ductwork and let it hang loose so it can be moved around by strong wave action. A better material is Kimsul, a Kimberly-Clark paper fiber insulation, but I haven't seen it in decades: http://members.myactv.net/~je245/2cfbox.jpg
GM
FWIW I use 1" acoustic fiberglass insulation like is bonded to heat/AC ductwork and let it hang loose so it can be moved around by strong wave action. A better material is Kimsul, a Kimberly-Clark paper fiber insulation, but I haven't seen it in decades: http://members.myactv.net/~je245/2cfbox.jpg
GM
>>> They kill the 168 in my opinion.
>>> These things are about the ultimate DIY speaker.
Well, to a degree I do agree. The 165k didn’t kill the 168S but it did provide a bouncier and livelier sound. At high volumes the 168S kept its composure better.
But overall, I prefer the 165k and think it is THE bargain so far compared to everything else I’ve heard. Basically, it sounded like a really great two way monitor to me upon first listen. There is no tweeter but it sure does sound like one is present. For some reason I expected the sound to be thinner based on comments I’ve read in the past. But it’s a solid performer and very balanced in the BIB. I think the BIB suits this driver particularly well. Everything sounded ‘right’ pretty much immediately.
I think this is the best balance I’ve struck so far without any shortcomings. Bass is solid, clear and articulate. Midrange is pretty much perfect (but at high volumes it becomes congested like most full rangers do). Hi’s are topped off with a RS super tweeter and sound great to me (rear firing, thank you). Sax sounds real enough but slightly different compared to the 168S. I don’t know which is more accurate… they both sound very good. I can’t say enough about the 165k. It’s just a winner all around in a BIB. No spit. No sizzle. Just good sound.
You’ve seen this but here it is again:
http://www.zillaspeak.com/bib-godzillabib.asp
Peace,
Godzilla
>>> These things are about the ultimate DIY speaker.
Well, to a degree I do agree. The 165k didn’t kill the 168S but it did provide a bouncier and livelier sound. At high volumes the 168S kept its composure better.
But overall, I prefer the 165k and think it is THE bargain so far compared to everything else I’ve heard. Basically, it sounded like a really great two way monitor to me upon first listen. There is no tweeter but it sure does sound like one is present. For some reason I expected the sound to be thinner based on comments I’ve read in the past. But it’s a solid performer and very balanced in the BIB. I think the BIB suits this driver particularly well. Everything sounded ‘right’ pretty much immediately.
I think this is the best balance I’ve struck so far without any shortcomings. Bass is solid, clear and articulate. Midrange is pretty much perfect (but at high volumes it becomes congested like most full rangers do). Hi’s are topped off with a RS super tweeter and sound great to me (rear firing, thank you). Sax sounds real enough but slightly different compared to the 168S. I don’t know which is more accurate… they both sound very good. I can’t say enough about the 165k. It’s just a winner all around in a BIB. No spit. No sizzle. Just good sound.
You’ve seen this but here it is again:
http://www.zillaspeak.com/bib-godzillabib.asp
Peace,
Godzilla
It is enough to make me wonder what the FF225K is like. I have read several times, people using it with great success. One prefers it in his Reson Rethm speakers.