Very likely a decent step forward. The Monacor is an excellent unit, expecially for the price, but the FX120 is one of Fostex's better moments. It's a slightly smaller cone though, so SPLs will be reduced somewhat.
Thank you Scottmoose...
I have 40 watts of Tube-Power, so SPL should be no problem.
You think, the Monacor-dimensions are ok for the Fostex?
I have 40 watts of Tube-Power, so SPL should be no problem.
You think, the Monacor-dimensions are ok for the Fostex?
The CSS125S (if you can get it in Bavaria at a reasonable price) should be a drop in fit except for needing an adapter plate due to its smaller size and will play much louder than comparable size drivers due to its relatively high Xmax, so the only question I have is how does the 125's mids/HF compare to the Fostex?
GM
GM
& I'm stuck on that one because I haven't heard the CSS unit long enough to draw much of a conclusion. FWIW, and this is going on fallible memory from about 2 years back, the CSS is similar in character to the Monacor, albeit with greater refinement, while the Fostex has a more detailed midrange & treble than either. Tradeoff of course is going to be greater compression as it only has a third of the Xmax of the CSS. I reckon either would be an upgrade. The Monacor's kind of like a European 1354 -great value for money, but you get what you pay for & the pricier units once loosened up will beat it.
There's an interesting possibility with this: driver-rolling. Detachable baffle, & push-on connectors, you could swap out drivers fairly quickly & have a few on hand to suit your flavour of the month.
There's an interesting possibility with this: driver-rolling. Detachable baffle
Good to know, thanks!
Yes, this is what I've done with Buzz's towers (aka MLTL) since it works like a champ with the 40-1354 and now the CSS125S, though to better protect the 125 I lowered Fb and damped the vents some since it has a higher Fs and apparently no self protecting rising rate suspension against bottoming out down low when playing Brain Bromberg's 'Wood' at near live piano bar levels. 😉 I guess the experiment will be the FX120 then, though this will have to wait till after I climb far enough out of debt to consider such luxuries if I can't get Buzz to buy some before then.
GM
Yes, this is what I've done with Buzz's towers (aka MLTL) since it works like a champ with the 40-1354 and now the CSS125S, though to better protect the 125 I lowered Fb and damped the vents some since it has a higher Fs and apparently no self protecting rising rate suspension against bottoming out down low when playing Brain Bromberg's 'Wood' at near live piano bar levels. 😉 I guess the experiment will be the FX120 then, though this will have to wait till after I climb far enough out of debt to consider such luxuries if I can't get Buzz to buy some before then.
GM
😀 I reckon that's two of us then at present Greg. I prefer not to think about my bank account at the moment. I reckon I'll have to put my PhD on hold for a while until I can get some cash coming in to pay for the research. And given what the university is currently doing to me, I'm not sure I can be bothered to complete anyway.
I'll explain in a PM. Just in case evil eyes are watching. OK, so the probability of anyone from my illustrious institution reading this is about as great as me waking up tomorrow next to the deserving winner of a Jean Harlowe lookalike contest, but probably bst not to say anything publically. Yet. 😉
Hi everybody 🙂 (I'm doctor Nick 🙂 )
Like I said in my previous post, I am trying to get some measurements from my bib's. For now I am only measurnig impedance/phase, but soon I will be able to do fr, and rest...
Results are totaly confusing at this time, and I hope someone here can help me 🙁
Here's impedance chart:
When I saw that, I wondered if my equipment was malfunctioning. Then I checked with some different drivers and boxes and eliminated that posibility.
Then I removed the driver (fe126e) and set it up for free air impedance measurement. Here's the chart for that:
How can this be? Datesheet says fs=70Hz, and I get 100hz.
datasheet:
I am really baffled
Please help
Like I said in my previous post, I am trying to get some measurements from my bib's. For now I am only measurnig impedance/phase, but soon I will be able to do fr, and rest...
Results are totaly confusing at this time, and I hope someone here can help me 🙁
Here's impedance chart:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
When I saw that, I wondered if my equipment was malfunctioning. Then I checked with some different drivers and boxes and eliminated that posibility.
Then I removed the driver (fe126e) and set it up for free air impedance measurement. Here's the chart for that:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
How can this be? Datesheet says fs=70Hz, and I get 100hz.
datasheet:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
I am really baffled
Please help
Welcome to the reality that manufacturer's specs are often not just off, but way off, though if this is a new driver with no break-in, then Fs will be somewhat higher.
GM
GM
What GM said. And if you think that's bad, you should see what Lowther are like for creative T/S claims. 😉
Expanding a little, it'll probably also depend on how you're measuring. If you're using a low voltage driver, then Fs for example will tend to be off, plus, as Greg pointed out, it depends on how well broken in the drivers are. An Fs of about 90Hz is typical for a loosened up 126 IIRC.
Expanding a little, it'll probably also depend on how you're measuring. If you're using a low voltage driver, then Fs for example will tend to be off, plus, as Greg pointed out, it depends on how well broken in the drivers are. An Fs of about 90Hz is typical for a loosened up 126 IIRC.
Scottmoose said:
This is part of it, your driver is fresh is another, and with the luck of the draw your 126s seem to be at the highish end of normal.
I have measured some 100 FE126 and Fs (with my measure kit) is typically 85-100 Hz before mod and 3-5 hz after.
The same driver can also vary ~5 Hz depending on the weather.
Keep in mind that T/S measures are a curve not a single isolated number. If Fostex measured 100 drivers with 1 V drive and you measured with a computer with millVolts of drive, the results are totally consistent. Further, the factory numbers will be an average... driver to driver variation for the 126 is quite tight box-to-box (10/box) at about 10%, but if you go across multiple boxes across time it goes up to 20%. Other name brands are not as tight, and from some manufacturers i wouldn't be sirprised to see 30%.
Note that FE127 measures similar and i regularily use the factory data to model boxes and i get the expected results.
dave
ok that's a partial relief 🙂
they are broken in for sure, and broken in well (~700-1000 hours )
i measured with 1V drive aprox, because my ears cannot stand 2.82V (1W).
Ok, I was afraid that my drivers were bad, and that the box should have been different.
Now the tough question. What do you think of the first graph? Does it in any way resemble expected bib behavior? I couldn't find any graphs depicting impedance of a normal bib.
Red line is without damping behind the driver, and the blue is with a layer of damping directly behind the driver.
I will do many more measurements when my mic preamp is finished, and post them here.
Thanks
they are broken in for sure, and broken in well (~700-1000 hours )
i measured with 1V drive aprox, because my ears cannot stand 2.82V (1W).
Ok, I was afraid that my drivers were bad, and that the box should have been different.
Now the tough question. What do you think of the first graph? Does it in any way resemble expected bib behavior? I couldn't find any graphs depicting impedance of a normal bib.
Red line is without damping behind the driver, and the blue is with a layer of damping directly behind the driver.
I will do many more measurements when my mic preamp is finished, and post them here.
Thanks
cheda13 said:
That curve is reflecting all the resonances in the BIB... the smoother you can make the impedance -- damping & panel stiffening -- the fewer and smaller all the differences between the in box & out of box.
dave
cheda13 said:
Yes, it shows that the cab is tuned to a lower Fp based on a 70 Hz Fs. A BIB is ideally tuned to an octave below Fs in which case the driver's impedance peak will be mildly damped by the horn and there will be two smaller peaks equidistant above and below it. Regardless, in a simple pipe horn it's academic, so you're fine.
GM
Attachments
This Friday I got a chance to listen to my friend's bib's that we built using monacor sp60x. these are the double folded variety -- i believe i posted a picture somewhere earlier in this thread.
When i first heard them without proper placement in my studio and with the drivers fresh out of the box I wasn't impressed at all as the highs were very muted. Here I got an extended listen placed in the corners of my friend's loft-like 1000 square foot apt. it is ideal as the ceilings slope downward and the speakers are snug in the corners about 10 or 12 feet apart. they are driven by a small tripath amp i put together and an ipod as source.
well, i was very impressed! the highs have cleared up nicely but are still on the dark, relaxed side. the midrange and bass are very full and nice and these speakers go low. they are clearly much better in this design than my fostex fe108es'. while they don't come close to the fe108es in terms of detail and clarity in the highs they are a much more forgiving speaker and poorly recorded music and rock sound much better. i would not even think of playing guided by voices on my fe108es bibs but here i was singing along. einsturzende neubaten rocked with these as did the pixies and dead can dance. i was also really surprised at how much i enjoyed joanna newsom singing and playing the harp.
most surprising was that these speakers filled the room with sound and got sufficiently loud to warrant an appearance from the neighbors down below with a little tripath amp32. i think these speakers would really sing with a more powerful amp, a gainclone or mini aleph perhaps.
**forgot to mention that, perhaps due to the extra fold or downward firing mouth, there were no issues with midrange leakage, and no need for extra damping or grill cloth over the mouth (as i use with my fe108es bibs)
excellent match and i think it would be difficult to equal this level of performance and enjoyment for this little money and effort. my friend couldn't be happier! thanks again to scottmoose, gm, zilla and all the others participating in this thread!
will try to get a picture of the finished speakers where they currently reside in the near future...
When i first heard them without proper placement in my studio and with the drivers fresh out of the box I wasn't impressed at all as the highs were very muted. Here I got an extended listen placed in the corners of my friend's loft-like 1000 square foot apt. it is ideal as the ceilings slope downward and the speakers are snug in the corners about 10 or 12 feet apart. they are driven by a small tripath amp i put together and an ipod as source.
well, i was very impressed! the highs have cleared up nicely but are still on the dark, relaxed side. the midrange and bass are very full and nice and these speakers go low. they are clearly much better in this design than my fostex fe108es'. while they don't come close to the fe108es in terms of detail and clarity in the highs they are a much more forgiving speaker and poorly recorded music and rock sound much better. i would not even think of playing guided by voices on my fe108es bibs but here i was singing along. einsturzende neubaten rocked with these as did the pixies and dead can dance. i was also really surprised at how much i enjoyed joanna newsom singing and playing the harp.
most surprising was that these speakers filled the room with sound and got sufficiently loud to warrant an appearance from the neighbors down below with a little tripath amp32. i think these speakers would really sing with a more powerful amp, a gainclone or mini aleph perhaps.
**forgot to mention that, perhaps due to the extra fold or downward firing mouth, there were no issues with midrange leakage, and no need for extra damping or grill cloth over the mouth (as i use with my fe108es bibs)
excellent match and i think it would be difficult to equal this level of performance and enjoyment for this little money and effort. my friend couldn't be happier! thanks again to scottmoose, gm, zilla and all the others participating in this thread!
will try to get a picture of the finished speakers where they currently reside in the near future...
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
I think the bib is a success too. It's given me the confidence to move on to driver mods.
Over the weekend I found out where to buy Damar. and gt some fresh wooden eggs in 2 sizes for making phase plugs.
But I'm still only copying things. I don't know much theory.
There should be a nice sticky on how to do driver mods with pics.
Enable threads and whatnot are just too long and, IIRC, rambling.
Over the weekend I found out where to buy Damar. and gt some fresh wooden eggs in 2 sizes for making phase plugs.
But I'm still only copying things. I don't know much theory.
There should be a nice sticky on how to do driver mods with pics.
Enable threads and whatnot are just too long and, IIRC, rambling.
loninappleton said:
Amen. I was thinking of posting an outline of what I understand to be the modification process and just let the experts correct me.
😀