Yamaha RP U100
Thanks for the followup. I'll do the test again.
The test tone goes to the AC'97 sound portion of the
motherboard and out to Ymaha RP U100 Cavit 'soundboard'
receiver of 15 watts per channel.
Right now I'm listening to the same setup and the channels seem to be at approx. equal volume. That was why doing that test and
using a slider to listen to both sides for those lowest frequencies
was a surprise to hear such a difference. I expected big foghorn
sound coming from the BIB but it was whisper quiet compared to the
MLTL as described.
Perhaps burning the cd and running it through my player as a source
would change something. But the path is still through the Yamaha.
On music the rig seems as well balanced as possible with 2 such diverse builds. The BIB is for the FE127e, fiber fill at the base, above the driver and around the terminus to a depth of 10 inches. FE127e in the MLTL as well.
Yep, string bass still sounds better in the MLTL. I can hear those strings pluck and snap better than the BIB. My build of the BIB may
be off that depth of the lumber that's been discussed but I don't think it should account for that amount of difference. I'm not going to rip it down and re-glue for that .75 inch.
GM said:
Thanks for the followup. I'll do the test again.
The test tone goes to the AC'97 sound portion of the
motherboard and out to Ymaha RP U100 Cavit 'soundboard'
receiver of 15 watts per channel.
Right now I'm listening to the same setup and the channels seem to be at approx. equal volume. That was why doing that test and
using a slider to listen to both sides for those lowest frequencies
was a surprise to hear such a difference. I expected big foghorn
sound coming from the BIB but it was whisper quiet compared to the
MLTL as described.
Perhaps burning the cd and running it through my player as a source
would change something. But the path is still through the Yamaha.
On music the rig seems as well balanced as possible with 2 such diverse builds. The BIB is for the FE127e, fiber fill at the base, above the driver and around the terminus to a depth of 10 inches. FE127e in the MLTL as well.
Yep, string bass still sounds better in the MLTL. I can hear those strings pluck and snap better than the BIB. My build of the BIB may
be off that depth of the lumber that's been discussed but I don't think it should account for that amount of difference. I'm not going to rip it down and re-glue for that .75 inch.
jamikl said:
I don't know. GM's analogy reminds me that this is a technique used for aperiodic ports. You have a range of tuning. You lose some in the bass, but you'd also roll off the top reducing combing. So you trade off bass extension against ripple (we've heard that line before). Not nearly as easy to tune as stuffing thou.
dave
Wharfedale applied for a patent on the idea back in the 1950s for their BR cabinets -I've no idea if they got it though.
Re the quieter sound from the BIB / apparantly less well defined strings, it might just be that it's giving you a more accurate representation of what's on the disk.
Re the quieter sound from the BIB / apparantly less well defined strings, it might just be that it's giving you a more accurate representation of what's on the disk.
jamikl said:
Greets!
I would have been lost without the various forms of resistive damping to fine tune all manner of vented alignments, especially before T/S, so while your particular suggestion won't get the results you want, the basic concept of resistive damping has merit for we're dealing with a vent 'gone wild' so to speak in that the transition from box to vent is seamless.
GM
Re: Yamaha RP U100
Greets!
You're welcome! Unfortunately, I don't know diddly-squat about computer sound systems beyond that all the ones I've auditioned sucked big time, with rolled off/limited LF and couldn't drive complex impedance loads, so assuming you've swapped channels to make sure it's not a bad one, then lacking any real knowledge of your system I'm going to assume it can't drive the BIB (the MLTL is a very benign load by comparison), so try them hooked up to a typical HIFI system.
GM
loninappleton said:
Greets!
You're welcome! Unfortunately, I don't know diddly-squat about computer sound systems beyond that all the ones I've auditioned sucked big time, with rolled off/limited LF and couldn't drive complex impedance loads, so assuming you've swapped channels to make sure it's not a bad one, then lacking any real knowledge of your system I'm going to assume it can't drive the BIB (the MLTL is a very benign load by comparison), so try them hooked up to a typical HIFI system.
GM
Re: Re: Yamaha RP U100
Ok, well before any big investments I think I'll try running the test
from the cd rather than through the soundcard.
As stated, the load seems to be fairly well balanced when just
running the receiver for FM.
Since my knowledge of theory is next to zero, wouldn't all that
talk about t- amps and 3 watt tube systems then have similar problems? I'm not clear on how the 'load' is applied.
GM said:
Ok, well before any big investments I think I'll try running the test
from the cd rather than through the soundcard.
As stated, the load seems to be fairly well balanced when just
running the receiver for FM.
Since my knowledge of theory is next to zero, wouldn't all that
talk about t- amps and 3 watt tube systems then have similar problems? I'm not clear on how the 'load' is applied.
Fooey
Fooey,
GM you were right as, well, most of the time.
My neighbors probably thought the aliens had arrived after playing
a bunch of those test tones. In my building it would not come as
much of a surprise to them. :-/
I swapped input channels and sure enough, the gain went to the
same channel now with the BIB hooked up.
Also noticeable was the increase in gain by putting the BIB in a
corner and stepping back into the room where much more audio
was noticeable.
This leaves me with a quandry about my receiver.
Could length of wire or some other interconnect make this big
difference? I'd hate to think the unit was shot.
Other odd thing I noticed was that the higher frequencies in the
tone generator would add gain to the opposite side.
Can this be from the build itself?
loninappleton said:
Fooey,
GM you were right as, well, most of the time.
My neighbors probably thought the aliens had arrived after playing
a bunch of those test tones. In my building it would not come as
much of a surprise to them. :-/
I swapped input channels and sure enough, the gain went to the
same channel now with the BIB hooked up.
Also noticeable was the increase in gain by putting the BIB in a
corner and stepping back into the room where much more audio
was noticeable.
This leaves me with a quandry about my receiver.
Could length of wire or some other interconnect make this big
difference? I'd hate to think the unit was shot.
Other odd thing I noticed was that the higher frequencies in the
tone generator would add gain to the opposite side.
Can this be from the build itself?
Hi Guys,
I don't know if this is appropriate or not (I'm sure the mods will let me no if it's not), but since ths seems to be where all the TL guru's hang out, I thought I would post a link to my tapered TL design (not BIB-taper runs the "wrong" way) in the "Loadspeaker" forum. As I haven't built any speakers in a very long time, and TL's are a unique beast, I would like as much feedback as I can get before I commit. I have had one member give it a passing grade, but I was hoping for more input.
Anyway, here's the link. If this is a no-no..sorry.
-Casey
I don't know if this is appropriate or not (I'm sure the mods will let me no if it's not), but since ths seems to be where all the TL guru's hang out, I thought I would post a link to my tapered TL design (not BIB-taper runs the "wrong" way) in the "Loadspeaker" forum. As I haven't built any speakers in a very long time, and TL's are a unique beast, I would like as much feedback as I can get before I commit. I have had one member give it a passing grade, but I was hoping for more input.
Anyway, here's the link. If this is a no-no..sorry.
-Casey
Cat5 and BIB
OK - I have a question, and I am hoping that someone still looks at this thread even though it has got to Godzilla proportions😉
I am putting together my FE168EZ BIBs and am going to take the advice found here and use Cat5e as speaker cable. I understand that the resistance in the 24SWG wire acts as a kind of resistor to the driver and attenuates the signal 'favourably'.
How long a cable can I get away with? I am running it inside the BIB to the floor and out along to where my amp is situated high up in a large recess in the (cob) wall of my cottage. It is a perfect hifi shelf, having a floor of slate and is 1m deep into the wall! I don't want to use a hifi rack in between the speakers as I feel this situation is more dampened acoustically. The platform my CDP and amp sit on are literally rock solid.
It does mean that I need about 5m runs of cable on both speakers. Is this just too much resistance?
Will it dramatically effect things if, say, I use 2 runs of 24SWG cable per speaker ie like biwire Cat5 but joined at both ends? Or will thicker cable be better for a long run.
You can see my understanding of resistance (and inductance and capacitance) is somewhat limited.
I am presently using a valve/SS hybrid amp (Unison Research) but I am looking to replace it with a SET, so need to bear that in mind for the cable.
Any help in understanding the cables thing would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers chaps
Martin😕
OK - I have a question, and I am hoping that someone still looks at this thread even though it has got to Godzilla proportions😉
I am putting together my FE168EZ BIBs and am going to take the advice found here and use Cat5e as speaker cable. I understand that the resistance in the 24SWG wire acts as a kind of resistor to the driver and attenuates the signal 'favourably'.
How long a cable can I get away with? I am running it inside the BIB to the floor and out along to where my amp is situated high up in a large recess in the (cob) wall of my cottage. It is a perfect hifi shelf, having a floor of slate and is 1m deep into the wall! I don't want to use a hifi rack in between the speakers as I feel this situation is more dampened acoustically. The platform my CDP and amp sit on are literally rock solid.
It does mean that I need about 5m runs of cable on both speakers. Is this just too much resistance?
Will it dramatically effect things if, say, I use 2 runs of 24SWG cable per speaker ie like biwire Cat5 but joined at both ends? Or will thicker cable be better for a long run.
You can see my understanding of resistance (and inductance and capacitance) is somewhat limited.
I am presently using a valve/SS hybrid amp (Unison Research) but I am looking to replace it with a SET, so need to bear that in mind for the cable.
Any help in understanding the cables thing would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers chaps
Martin😕
Well, a run of 24AWG conductors (1 wire each for positive & negative) should give ~ 1.7ohms of DC resistance over the leangths you stipulate. Shouldn't be a problem -with your current amp, probably beneficial if anything as it'll prevent the amp overdamping the drivers. CAT5 is extremely cheap, so there's plenty of scope to experiment to find out what suits you best. Your prospective SET amp will have a lower DF and might want some lower resistance cable. Just just a few runs of the same stuff. Alternatively, 18AWG magnet wire should be just the ticket, or ring mains cable, which also suits horns down to the ground.
Thanks for that info. I was considering running a couple of pairs of Cat5 per side, put inside the inner core of some coax I have about the place. I thought I could heatshrink the outside or to make it prettier, or find some cotton tubing (like a giant 5 metre shoe lace!).
I have just made a pair of ICs using a Cat5e pair lightly twisted over a coax core. Cheap as chips and worth a go i thought. I am honestly astonished with the results! Very fast and wonderfully clear. I probs will offend someone here, but it kills both Chord Co and Nordost products I own(ed).
M
I have just made a pair of ICs using a Cat5e pair lightly twisted over a coax core. Cheap as chips and worth a go i thought. I am honestly astonished with the results! Very fast and wonderfully clear. I probs will offend someone here, but it kills both Chord Co and Nordost products I own(ed).
M
Scottmoose said:
Ok, time for some tough talk about magnet wire 18AWG or any other kind. What is it? Where do you get it and how do you set it up?
If it is a real fine gauge, do you solder or use connectors? What kind of connectors? How does it run from inside the cab to the source with or without strain relief?
Recently I have posted about some levels issues while running a single BIB and a single MLTL for the FE127e's. Would cabling such as the AWG magnet wire give better matching to 2 different builds
that the standard speaker wire I have hooked up now? My process has been trying to tune the BIB for accuracy and get rid of some
muddiness when heard in a/b comparison with the MLTL.
Doesn't offend me. I'm deeply cynical about cable companies.
Magnet wire = enamelled copper wire used for winding electromagnets, transformers & the like. For example: http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=44&criteria=wire&doy=21m2
Would it improve things? No idea -depends on your system. If it's being over-damped, then probably. If it's under-damped it'll make it worse. It's cheap enough to try without exactly crippling your finances, as you can see.
I just solder the stuff internally to the binding posts, but I never use connectors (i.e. spades, bananas etc.) if possible, with thin wire at least. They cause more problems than a dozen pieces of wire. Theoretically no connection at all is best, but it's often not the most practical of solutions.
Magnet wire = enamelled copper wire used for winding electromagnets, transformers & the like. For example: http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=44&criteria=wire&doy=21m2
Would it improve things? No idea -depends on your system. If it's being over-damped, then probably. If it's under-damped it'll make it worse. It's cheap enough to try without exactly crippling your finances, as you can see.
I just solder the stuff internally to the binding posts, but I never use connectors (i.e. spades, bananas etc.) if possible, with thin wire at least. They cause more problems than a dozen pieces of wire. Theoretically no connection at all is best, but it's often not the most practical of solutions.
>>> it kills both Chord Co and Nordost products
LOL - it probably does.
I use Cat5 for my 168S BIB and it works just fine.
I also use Radio Shack 16 guage in other speakers and it works fine too.
I have two 8 foot runs of AQ Crystal if anyone wants? I also have some Ruby interconnects... i used to be a REAL audiophile back when i had a subscription to Stereophile.
May just use the Crystal from my Cary to my BIBs one day... tho the cheaper Cat5 probably sounds better overall. Maybe i will do a listening comparison in the future.
I was pissed when the electrician ran the crappiest wire i've ever seen under my living room... looks like tin on one side and copper the other... not pliable at all and probably acoustically yuck.
He's dead now so i have no one to complain too.
LOL - it probably does.
I use Cat5 for my 168S BIB and it works just fine.
I also use Radio Shack 16 guage in other speakers and it works fine too.
I have two 8 foot runs of AQ Crystal if anyone wants? I also have some Ruby interconnects... i used to be a REAL audiophile back when i had a subscription to Stereophile.
May just use the Crystal from my Cary to my BIBs one day... tho the cheaper Cat5 probably sounds better overall. Maybe i will do a listening comparison in the future.
I was pissed when the electrician ran the crappiest wire i've ever seen under my living room... looks like tin on one side and copper the other... not pliable at all and probably acoustically yuck.
He's dead now so i have no one to complain too.
My electrician was a really nice guy. He did anything I asked. He installed all the speaker cable so it was hidden under the floor in my living room. He cut holes for recessed lighting all over the house. Dimmer switches galore, cable wires in all the rooms.. etc. One day my wife was complaining to him about a closet light (I hid in the bedroom and waited for her to stop) when suddenly she called out to me with a funny tone of voice. The electrician’s head was resting on a shelf inside the closet like he was asleep. Then he stood up and sort of meandered down the steps… then began falling over the rail. I had to run as fast as I could to grab him around the waist and hoist him back before falling from the second floor. He was dead weight (over 200 pounds) and I let him sleep on our steps. Wifey thought he was dead but I could hear and feel him breathing. He woke up 20 minutes later and explained his cancer medicine made him fall asleep easily. I think my wife put him to sleep complaining about the closet light.
He died a few weeks later from leukemia. I always enjoyed talking to him until one day while running some wire in the basement he complained to me how Hitler never finished the job of killing all the Jews. Other than that, he was a really nice man.
Some people are disturbed and cursed. Some just have terrible luck. We all must always remember to count our blessings. Anyone with a nice sounding stereo should start by counting that blessing and continue counting from there.
He died a few weeks later from leukemia. I always enjoyed talking to him until one day while running some wire in the basement he complained to me how Hitler never finished the job of killing all the Jews. Other than that, he was a really nice man.
Some people are disturbed and cursed. Some just have terrible luck. We all must always remember to count our blessings. Anyone with a nice sounding stereo should start by counting that blessing and continue counting from there.
Well said Jeff.
'Other than that...' Perhaps to be charitable, should write that incident off to his medication.
'Other than that...' Perhaps to be charitable, should write that incident off to his medication.