Hi Steve
It was a company in Norfolk IIRC, called audioloudspeakers.co.uk - not sure if they are still going. The speaker came back with a slightly different RDC but seemed to work fine. I have since noted another company called Wembleyloudspeakers.com that may do this type of work but have not used them yet.
The Monacor drivers are about right apart from not being 16 Ohm, They would be a good replacement for the Studio 2 mkIII's, but the Studio 3 mkIII has 2 x 222mm 16 Ohm woofers ..or supposed to - I know the OP had bought a set that had been messed around with and didn't have the correct drivers. 😕
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Hey Christian ...a pair of 25DT49's - worth keeping an eye on?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/284796311951?hash=item424f2ed98f:g:NawAAOSwVoBicCrJ
Not often to see the exact model required 🙂
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/284796311951?hash=item424f2ed98f:g:NawAAOSwVoBicCrJ
Not often to see the exact model required 🙂
Hiya,
Thanks for your responses and sorry for the slow reply!
I missed the replacement ones on eBay...sad times.
The problem with the tweeters is that they have gone completely dead and they haven't been (to my knowledge!) pushed too hard. I'm hoping the ferrofluid might be the answer. I don't have a multimeter to test with.
So I have taken the faceplate off to investigate and try and clean out a bit of the fluid with kitchen towel. There is still some fluid in there but it's a very dark rusty colour, not sure if that's good or bad?!
Do I need to clean all the old fluid out, if so is kitchen towel best, seems little fiddly. Would also be great to know ow much fluid should go in each tweeter and what's the best way of administering it?
Thanks again for your help... for my tdls haven't been firing for a while now and that needs to change!!
Christian
Thanks for your responses and sorry for the slow reply!
I missed the replacement ones on eBay...sad times.
The problem with the tweeters is that they have gone completely dead and they haven't been (to my knowledge!) pushed too hard. I'm hoping the ferrofluid might be the answer. I don't have a multimeter to test with.
So I have taken the faceplate off to investigate and try and clean out a bit of the fluid with kitchen towel. There is still some fluid in there but it's a very dark rusty colour, not sure if that's good or bad?!
Do I need to clean all the old fluid out, if so is kitchen towel best, seems little fiddly. Would also be great to know ow much fluid should go in each tweeter and what's the best way of administering it?
Thanks again for your help... for my tdls haven't been firing for a while now and that needs to change!!
Christian
They are completely dead, no sound at all. Attached is the schematic which someone sent me many years ago. I've had mine apart and all the values are correct but I will double check and send a picture of the crossover when I can.
Attachments
It seems odd for both of them to be completely dead. Have you been able to measure the dc resistance across each one? ..should be between 6 and 7 Ohms.
Interesting to see that schematic - it is much simpler than in my MKII's which have a 3rd order xover, plus zobel. I guess the newer woofer design allowed them to have a shallower forced roll off.
Interesting to see that schematic - it is much simpler than in my MKII's which have a 3rd order xover, plus zobel. I guess the newer woofer design allowed them to have a shallower forced roll off.
Is that definitely the only xover board in the speaker? ..I ask as it looks like all the right components for just a 3rd order high pass filter. Are those leads the only ones in and out of the board? ...if so, may be another board somewhere?
Hi Christian,
Not sure if you're still in the game of trying to find new tweeters but I've been playing with some of those that you've mentioned recently.
Firstly, the DT-100 is not a good quality tweeter, in my opinion. The construction seems relatively cheap and dimension wise does not sit perfectly in the studio 3. Above all, it didn't sound good. Out of the box the voice coils were mis-aligned and when fixed, the top end was very scratchy and sibilant. That brings me onto the Audax...
I'm currently playing with the 12x9 8 ohm Audax unit from Falcon Acoustics. You're right in saying that out of the box it is far too bright but it can be tamed right down to match. I'm in the process of building a suitable L-pad attenuator to add in line with the current tweeter feed from the crossover. Already, a 10 ohm 10w resistor in parallel has brought it right down and it sounds very nice to my ears! I will be setting up a proper l-pad configuration once my additional resistors arrive. I will try both 3db and 5db attenuation and report back once I've had some time to listen to them.
Even when slightly too bright, it is leaps and bounds ahead of the DT-100 and actually looks good in the Studio 3's tweeter aperture.
Matt
For those who are interested, I think I have found the sweet spot configuration with the Audax tw025a0.
A 3.6 ohm series and 20 ohm parallel resistor nets you a 5db drop whilst maintaining the 8 ohm load on the crossover. Even though the stock TDL matches the Audax’s 90db sensitivity, the Audax driver needs attenuating a fair bit.
This configuration gives an incredibly neutral and balanced sound stage. In my opinion, this is the most ideal Studio 3 upgrade configuration.
A 3.6 ohm series and 20 ohm parallel resistor nets you a 5db drop whilst maintaining the 8 ohm load on the crossover. Even though the stock TDL matches the Audax’s 90db sensitivity, the Audax driver needs attenuating a fair bit.
This configuration gives an incredibly neutral and balanced sound stage. In my opinion, this is the most ideal Studio 3 upgrade configuration.
Hi Matt. Your Lpad has nailed it. The tweeter is really balanced now and has lost the slightly harsh edge of the original metal ones. Thanks for posting, I might even stop tinkering with these now!
Hi!
Glad to hear it has improved things.
Unfortunately, I got the calculation wrong! That 20 ohm resistor should actually be 10 ohms. 20 ohms is actually out of spec! I looked back inside my speakers and I had fitted 10 ohms resistors, so I’m not sure what I was thinking when I made my original post. Apologies!
That being said, I have recently dropped the tweeter to -6dB which sounds spot on. Honestly, the blending is absolutely ideal and I encourage you to try it (not least to ditch the 20 ohm resistor I mislead you with!)
I’ve attached a picture of the ideal configuration.
Matt
Glad to hear it has improved things.
Unfortunately, I got the calculation wrong! That 20 ohm resistor should actually be 10 ohms. 20 ohms is actually out of spec! I looked back inside my speakers and I had fitted 10 ohms resistors, so I’m not sure what I was thinking when I made my original post. Apologies!
That being said, I have recently dropped the tweeter to -6dB which sounds spot on. Honestly, the blending is absolutely ideal and I encourage you to try it (not least to ditch the 20 ohm resistor I mislead you with!)
I’ve attached a picture of the ideal configuration.
Matt
Attachments
A happy mistake for a rainy day like this (and an excuse to stop working for 20 mins) so no worries!
I've put the 10 in and the soundstage has opened up loads and it all feels a bit more integrated although my room is a bit smaller than such big speakers probably need and so it's become a tiny bit forward again but still a joy to listen to.
Excuse my ignorance but when you say on spec do you mean it will present the same as the original tweeter with the 10 and 3.6 L combo?
I might try and add 1 or 2 more ohms to the 10 and see what happens in my room.
Thanks for sharing your findings.
Christian
I've put the 10 in and the soundstage has opened up loads and it all feels a bit more integrated although my room is a bit smaller than such big speakers probably need and so it's become a tiny bit forward again but still a joy to listen to.
Excuse my ignorance but when you say on spec do you mean it will present the same as the original tweeter with the 10 and 3.6 L combo?
I might try and add 1 or 2 more ohms to the 10 and see what happens in my room.
Thanks for sharing your findings.
Christian
Hi Christian,
Ah good that you had a 10 ohm resistor at hand!
Yes, when I say in spec, I mean maintaining the 8 ohm load that the original crossover is designed for. With the 10 ohm resistor in parallel and 3.6 ohm in series, you are reducing the overall tweeter output by 5dB but as far as the speaker knows, it is still an 8 ohm load and is electrically balanced per TDL’s design. A 3.6 ohm series and 20 ohm parallel would result in a 9.3 ohm load and a 4.2dB drop.
The decibel drop is fine and ultimately to taste but the impedance mis-match results in some undesirable behaviour. It is best to keep that tweeter value as close to 8 ohms as possible.
I forgot to ask, are you using this setup with the Audax tw025a0?
Matt
Ah good that you had a 10 ohm resistor at hand!
Yes, when I say in spec, I mean maintaining the 8 ohm load that the original crossover is designed for. With the 10 ohm resistor in parallel and 3.6 ohm in series, you are reducing the overall tweeter output by 5dB but as far as the speaker knows, it is still an 8 ohm load and is electrically balanced per TDL’s design. A 3.6 ohm series and 20 ohm parallel would result in a 9.3 ohm load and a 4.2dB drop.
The decibel drop is fine and ultimately to taste but the impedance mis-match results in some undesirable behaviour. It is best to keep that tweeter value as close to 8 ohms as possible.
I forgot to ask, are you using this setup with the Audax tw025a0?
Matt
Yep, It's the Audax tw025a0 you mentioned. I got it from Falcon, it's the 8 ohm one.
You mention 6db attenuation is the sweet spot for you. What R values have you used to achieve that?
Also is the undesirable behaviour you mention to do with how cohesively all the units sound/work together or potential damage to anything?
Nice one!
Christian
You mention 6db attenuation is the sweet spot for you. What R values have you used to achieve that?
Also is the undesirable behaviour you mention to do with how cohesively all the units sound/work together or potential damage to anything?
Nice one!
Christian
Ah brilliant, so you’re working off exactly the same setup as me.
I’ve personally found -6dB to be the sweet spot where it feels like everything is balanced. -5dB initially sounded great but over time I found the treble a tad too prevalent still. It was a very fine margin but enough to cause me to tweak and drop it that extra dB.
The values for -6dB are 4 ohm series and 8 ohm parallel.
The undesirable behaviour is all sound related and wouldn’t damage anything. Poor matching essentially shifts the crossover points and causes the drivers to operate outside of their intended ranges. I’m not a guru in this space but I suspect it could cause the tweeter and/or woofers to operate above or below their audible ranges, I.e causing a dip or increase at certain frequencies.
I’ve personally found -6dB to be the sweet spot where it feels like everything is balanced. -5dB initially sounded great but over time I found the treble a tad too prevalent still. It was a very fine margin but enough to cause me to tweak and drop it that extra dB.
The values for -6dB are 4 ohm series and 8 ohm parallel.
The undesirable behaviour is all sound related and wouldn’t damage anything. Poor matching essentially shifts the crossover points and causes the drivers to operate outside of their intended ranges. I’m not a guru in this space but I suspect it could cause the tweeter and/or woofers to operate above or below their audible ranges, I.e causing a dip or increase at certain frequencies.
So I’ve fudged the closest values I can with the resistors I’ve got and come out at 8.1 and 4.3. It’s recessed the top a bit too much. I’m going to try and work out the formula you sent so I can tinker under my own steam but it seems like the small difference in values has taken just a bit too much off or I need to aim for -5.5 db for my ears/room.
It’s all personal preference 🙂 I like quite a warm sound (having moved to the TDLs from a pair of Wharfedale Linton Heritage speakers). If -5dB works well for you, then I say stick with it. Like I said, I was happy with it for the most part but felt it a little too bright for my ears.
The ears are extremely sensitive to small changes in high frequency volume and take time to adjust.
The following is a great resource, if you want to learn more and play with values.
https://soundcertified.com/l-pad-calculator/
The lpad calculator is what I used to get to where I am.
Matt
The ears are extremely sensitive to small changes in high frequency volume and take time to adjust.
The following is a great resource, if you want to learn more and play with values.
https://soundcertified.com/l-pad-calculator/
The lpad calculator is what I used to get to where I am.
Matt
Thanks again for your help. It is all so subjective as you say. I agree that -5 is a touch too bright but it really did pull all the units together nicely. Will tinker a bit more and let you know where I settle. All the best.
One thing I’ve added to mine which made a massive difference is add focus rings. I’ve made them out of some adhesive backed foam. As the name implies, it really focuses the treble and steps up the clarity.
As you can see, they look a little DIY, as they’re made of a strip of foam. I’ve since ordered some fabric punches and a sheet of the foam to make professional looking versions. I’ll add some pictures when done and if they turn out okay, I’d be happy to send you a pair, Christian.
As you can see, they look a little DIY, as they’re made of a strip of foam. I’ve since ordered some fabric punches and a sheet of the foam to make professional looking versions. I’ll add some pictures when done and if they turn out okay, I’d be happy to send you a pair, Christian.
