Thank you for the information. 😀
I have been a long time follower of your websites.
Slightly more complex than the 404's.
Hence my thinking that these "knock-offs" were just put together with the minimum of parts and fuss.
"It just needs to make some noise".... I can hear the manufacturer say. 😕😡
These drivers are very capable, when used correctly. 🙂
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What is the height of the 404's? ..the Studio 3's (@ 950mm) look a fraction taller from the photo's. I note the 3's also go 5Hz lower than the 404's.
I don't like transmission line much, TBH. Too much bass IMO.
S'funny, that Studio 3 proper crossover could be one of mine... 😱
Regular sort of KEF design.
I prefer a bit less deep bass and more slam:
Smaller bass coil.
Your current filter is a bit SEAS Njord (very loud 8" paper bass and typical SEAS 1" tweeter) with added impedance correction on the basses:
Awful way to treat a tweeter IMO. 😱
S'funny, that Studio 3 proper crossover could be one of mine... 😱
Regular sort of KEF design.
I prefer a bit less deep bass and more slam:
Smaller bass coil.
Your current filter is a bit SEAS Njord (very loud 8" paper bass and typical SEAS 1" tweeter) with added impedance correction on the basses:
Awful way to treat a tweeter IMO. 😱
They are 900mm in height, 300mm wide and 400mm deep.
2 Separate chambers inside, splitting the upper woofer from the lower woofer and tweeter.
Each chamber has its own port, about 50mm in diameter, but unsure of the length.
It seems like the 404 is a hybrid of the Studio 3 and the cheaper RTL 4 ..of course it isn't but there are similarities.
Any suggestions? I won't say it is too bright.
The bass can be more controlled imo, but again, it may be the vintage Amp I'm using's issue with its low Damping Factor.
Steve and AllenB and prob many others will correct me here as I'm no expert, but I've found increasing the gauge of the inductor wire, then fractionally reducing the inductance (as thicker gauge seems to be slightly more effective at rolling off) gives a little more control whilst at the same time giving a touch more bass and mids - which in effect appears to present less treble in the overall balance.
I'm probably way over simplifying things and maybe somebody will explain and correct me, or give a reason why, but that's the observation I made in my testing.
I'm probably way over simplifying things and maybe somebody will explain and correct me, or give a reason why, but that's the observation I made in my testing.
A smaller bass coil DOES lift the midrange slightly. Some might call it less bafflestep.
How it works. It's also a tighter sound. Less bass. Just place nearer the wall...
How it works. It's also a tighter sound. Less bass. Just place nearer the wall...
..and at the other end the reduction in resistance is going to slightly bring up the upper bass/lower midrange giving the impression of more bass, while leaving the bottom end down for a more relaxed rolloff.
Hello to all,
I found this discussion because I killed one of my 8DC441 in my original TDL Studio 3 MK1.
As I love the sound of my speakers, I would highly appreciate if someone can possibly offer me one from a broken Studio 3 or in case replacements have been installed and so one or more are left over?
Just to introduce myself: I am 54years old, addicted to good english sound since the 90s, love transmission lines, have a Rotel RA1570 Amplifier and RCD1570 CD player. And for my best moments I have a Project1 plus Audio Technica OC7 (MC) plus Musical Fidelity Phono Preamp. And I am from Austria.
Hope someone can help me.
Thank you,
Wolfgang
Hello Wolfgang
How have you killed one of your drivers? ...what is wrong with it?
Finding a replacement 8DC441 is almost impossible - I've been keeping an eye out for a long time.
Depending on the fault, it could be possible to repair it
How have you killed one of your drivers? ...what is wrong with it?
Finding a replacement 8DC441 is almost impossible - I've been keeping an eye out for a long time.
Depending on the fault, it could be possible to repair it
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Hello
and thank you very much for the quick reply 👍
Yes there have not been many Studio 3 sold with this speakers and so my expectation was very low to get a positive feedback.
Regarding killed -> I do not know exactely but I think it was Pink Floyd on my turntable which was played heavily loud ...
When turning back, the tweeter on the damaged side sounded wrong ... and when checking why I realized that the upper speaker was quiet.
Mechanically it all looks fine but no music comes out while his parallel connected brother plays well.
I tested with a 1,5V battery ... no reaction while the other one popped out about 1 to 2mm.
So I measured resistance -> nothing, just as if wires have been cut
Then I checked the small connection wires (visual and resistance measured) from the connection terminal to inside of the speaker ... all fine and not brocken
I assume the coil inside is damaged ... what do you think?
And regarding repair -> is there a possibility to get the magnet of the speakers back?
BR,
Wolfgang
and thank you very much for the quick reply 👍
Yes there have not been many Studio 3 sold with this speakers and so my expectation was very low to get a positive feedback.
Regarding killed -> I do not know exactely but I think it was Pink Floyd on my turntable which was played heavily loud ...
When turning back, the tweeter on the damaged side sounded wrong ... and when checking why I realized that the upper speaker was quiet.
Mechanically it all looks fine but no music comes out while his parallel connected brother plays well.
I tested with a 1,5V battery ... no reaction while the other one popped out about 1 to 2mm.
So I measured resistance -> nothing, just as if wires have been cut
Then I checked the small connection wires (visual and resistance measured) from the connection terminal to inside of the speaker ... all fine and not brocken
I assume the coil inside is damaged ... what do you think?
And regarding repair -> is there a possibility to get the magnet of the speakers back?
BR,
Wolfgang
That does sound like the voice coil is damaged. A speaker repair company should be able put a new voice coil on it. It would be worth considering.
Yes, I also think that its the coil that needs to be changed.
But I doubt that there is the same coil available?
And does anyone of you have experience with such a repair?
Thanks.
But I doubt that there is the same coil available?
And does anyone of you have experience with such a repair?
Thanks.
Any progress? Too tricky for me Wolfgang. I had mine repaired (new voice coil and spider) in the UK for about £45 ...there should be several companies in mainland Europe that could do this. Not cheap (but cheaper than a lot of replacement drivers) and came back with a slightly different impedance but close enough and better than a completely different driver. Good luck.
Hello!
Just wondering how the project is going as I also own a pair of the Studio 3s (with the round woofer pictured at the start of the thread). I love them but one of the tweeters has given up the ghost and I'd like to replace them both.
It's an 8 ohm 25DT (It also has 49 and then 3490 written on it but not sure how relevant that is). I'm wary about attempting and ferrofluid replacement and so I'm definitely looking for options to replace
So apart from a similar resistance am I looking for a crossover point of 3htz and how essential is that/ how much room for a different htz value is there?
Anything else I should look out for or avoid?
I tried the rectangualrplated audax (?) ones from Falcon and they didn't sit well in the current x over and made the top very prominent.
What about these Monaco ones?
https://www.monacor.com/products/components/speaker-technology/hi-fi-tweeters-/dt-100/
https://monacor.co.uk/dt-250.html
I've always liked the idea of a posh pair of ribbon tweeters to tame the slightly tizziness the speakers have but not really sure where to start on that!
https://impactaudio.co.uk/products/visaton-mht-12-8-ohm-high-end-tweeter-range-magnetostat
Any help much appreciated.
Thanks
Christian
Just wondering how the project is going as I also own a pair of the Studio 3s (with the round woofer pictured at the start of the thread). I love them but one of the tweeters has given up the ghost and I'd like to replace them both.
It's an 8 ohm 25DT (It also has 49 and then 3490 written on it but not sure how relevant that is). I'm wary about attempting and ferrofluid replacement and so I'm definitely looking for options to replace
So apart from a similar resistance am I looking for a crossover point of 3htz and how essential is that/ how much room for a different htz value is there?
Anything else I should look out for or avoid?
I tried the rectangualrplated audax (?) ones from Falcon and they didn't sit well in the current x over and made the top very prominent.
What about these Monaco ones?
https://www.monacor.com/products/components/speaker-technology/hi-fi-tweeters-/dt-100/
https://monacor.co.uk/dt-250.html
I've always liked the idea of a posh pair of ribbon tweeters to tame the slightly tizziness the speakers have but not really sure where to start on that!
https://impactaudio.co.uk/products/visaton-mht-12-8-ohm-high-end-tweeter-range-magnetostat
Any help much appreciated.
Thanks
Christian
Hi Christian
It's pretty hard to find suitable replacement tweeters that don't require any modification to the cabinet or crossover.
I have been experimenting with a few, but none of them are a straight drop in. (Morel CAT 378, SEAS 27TBC/G being the latest ones) I enjoy the experiment but there's cabinet work and crossover adjustments with both.
I'm not sure how good the Monacor ones you mention would be due to the higher resonant frequency needing to be accounted for, plus the crossover would need some adjustment.
I love the idea of the ribbon tweeters, and they may well work but due to the cutout required, the cabinet would need a fair bit of irreversible adjustment.
Cheers
Mark
btw Christian, what is wrong with one of the tweeters you have? ..not working at all or sounds wrong?
Also, is there any chance of you taking a photo of your crossover? I would like to know of any difference to the mkII's that I have
Also, is there any chance of you taking a photo of your crossover? I would like to know of any difference to the mkII's that I have
Who repaired the woofer in the UK, Mark? Just curious, because this is a service that is hard to find these days.
These 8 ohm 222mm polycone (plastic) Monacor SPH-8M look doable too:
https://www.monacor.com/products/components/speaker-technology/hi-fi-speakers-/sph-8m/
I don't know what is putting you off about replacing the ferrofluid, Christian. Simple enough job and cheap too. Blue Aran stock it in the UK. Less than £10.
Of course you must test the broken tweeter electrically to confirm the voicecoil is intact. A multimeter should give you about 5.5 Ohms. A 1.5V pencell battery might give you a quiet crackle if the ferrofluid has gone solid.
Undo 4 screws on the tweeter faceplate and the innards are usually accessable.
The issue with replacing woofers and tweeters is initially: Will the new one fit? You must measure the rebate and cutout. Will it need adjustment based on loudness and changed electrical resistance? Is it the same style of driver to keep the original sound?
I would think that adjusting the new Falcon Audax rectangular 12x9 soft dome tweeters for loudness is straightforward. Add one or two ceramic resistors. Those Monacor ones both look doable too though slightly variable faceplate size.
I'll stop there for now. This isn't a hard problem. But the investigation stage comes first.
Best regards, Steve in Portsmouth, UK.
These 8 ohm 222mm polycone (plastic) Monacor SPH-8M look doable too:
https://www.monacor.com/products/components/speaker-technology/hi-fi-speakers-/sph-8m/
I don't know what is putting you off about replacing the ferrofluid, Christian. Simple enough job and cheap too. Blue Aran stock it in the UK. Less than £10.
Of course you must test the broken tweeter electrically to confirm the voicecoil is intact. A multimeter should give you about 5.5 Ohms. A 1.5V pencell battery might give you a quiet crackle if the ferrofluid has gone solid.
Undo 4 screws on the tweeter faceplate and the innards are usually accessable.
The issue with replacing woofers and tweeters is initially: Will the new one fit? You must measure the rebate and cutout. Will it need adjustment based on loudness and changed electrical resistance? Is it the same style of driver to keep the original sound?
I would think that adjusting the new Falcon Audax rectangular 12x9 soft dome tweeters for loudness is straightforward. Add one or two ceramic resistors. Those Monacor ones both look doable too though slightly variable faceplate size.
I'll stop there for now. This isn't a hard problem. But the investigation stage comes first.
Best regards, Steve in Portsmouth, UK.