Hi Folks.
I built a pair of W8-2314, 25L in bass reflex with an analog active crossover.
I really like them!
Still i am wondering that the woofers response does not at all match the datasheet.
Above 3K it drops 12dB/octave without any crossover.
Taking a look at the impedance curve, i think this is normal.
So after the real world measurements ( measuring a little of axis) the woofer
can´t go higher than 1K5 witch is ok because the tweeter seems to work well down there.
I am wondering about some very different curves i saw here in this thread.
Do you have any explanations ?
Cheers,
Alex.
I built a pair of W8-2314, 25L in bass reflex with an analog active crossover.
I really like them!
Still i am wondering that the woofers response does not at all match the datasheet.
Above 3K it drops 12dB/octave without any crossover.
Taking a look at the impedance curve, i think this is normal.
So after the real world measurements ( measuring a little of axis) the woofer
can´t go higher than 1K5 witch is ok because the tweeter seems to work well down there.
I am wondering about some very different curves i saw here in this thread.
Do you have any explanations ?
Cheers,
Alex.
I'm not sure what is it you wonder about.
Is it normal for an 8" woofer to start beaming at 3kHz? yep.
Is it normal that an 8" woofer can't go higher than 15kHz? yep.
Is it normal for an 8" woofer to start beaming at 3kHz? yep.
Is it normal that an 8" woofer can't go higher than 15kHz? yep.
My wonder is that i have seen very different curves in this thread and in the datasheet.
Thank for your answer !
Thank for your answer !
TB is well known to doctor their FR graphs.
I really wanted to like them, being a Taiwanese company and supporting local businesses, but in the end, I didn’t enjoy their smoothing of data. They do make good drivers, but they often need some work to sound good. That being said, the W6-2313 that I have sound really good, they image very well, but it was work trying to mesh the woofer and the tweeter.
Since then, I have come to love SBA. Their data and real world measurements are very close, and they do offer some great drivers as well. I’m a big fan of SBA now.
They also have a nice Satori coax that I would love to try.
I really wanted to like them, being a Taiwanese company and supporting local businesses, but in the end, I didn’t enjoy their smoothing of data. They do make good drivers, but they often need some work to sound good. That being said, the W6-2313 that I have sound really good, they image very well, but it was work trying to mesh the woofer and the tweeter.
Since then, I have come to love SBA. Their data and real world measurements are very close, and they do offer some great drivers as well. I’m a big fan of SBA now.
They also have a nice Satori coax that I would love to try.
Hello folks!
So I'm thinking to build W6-2313 desktop nearfields for this table. For now I'm only thinking about the cabinet, I will drop in $10 parts express XO just to protect the tweeter and worry about custom XO few months from now. I will wire the speakers outside so XO can be externally attached and tweaked at will. Pictured are Dynaudio Emits with Aegir amp. Please check my plan for sanity:
So I'm thinking to build W6-2313 desktop nearfields for this table. For now I'm only thinking about the cabinet, I will drop in $10 parts express XO just to protect the tweeter and worry about custom XO few months from now. I will wire the speakers outside so XO can be externally attached and tweaked at will. Pictured are Dynaudio Emits with Aegir amp. Please check my plan for sanity:
- Strictly classical orchestra/instrumental/opera/acoustics. I do listen rock but I don't care how it sounds
- As you see my speakers are firing directly into glass windows, so I have the ports closed. Dyns are dull with closed ports. Their internal volume is about 9 L. They are $800 speakers so they probably use $40 drivers. With 2313 I think I will destroy them just on driver quality
- So I need to build sealed boxes. The space limits - horizontally I can fit up to 25 cm (9.8") externally. Vertically and deeply I am not super limited, can go 30 or even 35 cm (13.7")
- To avoid windows reflections I want to limit this to 65 Hz. I will build an under desk subwoofer anyway, so even 70 Hz is prob fine
- I've tried to model the box with WinISD 0.7.0.950, I don't know what I'm doing wrong but the curve is the same no matter of the box size. It gives me Fsc 69 Hz at 17 L, so I suppose the box has to be at least 17 L internally?
- Does the shape of the box matter? People speak about golden ratio, but I doubt I can fit anything golden. The box will practically jam the speaker horizontally, but will be tall and deep
- Any other suggestion on the box, like making some path guides or curves (well nothing smooth, it's hard to make)? Put some diffractors in the corners?
- How to dampen it?
I did those myself. Without that panel the low frequency has too much resonance from the walls and windows. And my wife located everywhere else in the house complains loudly. With Dynaudio those are mandatory because it goes to 60 Hz at elevated curve. If I build a tight box with 70 Hz cutoff I can remove those. Please ignore. I just ordered the measurement mic and I will make sure my DIY will cut off the lows. I will build a separate sub under table. This is the 1st fl and my wife is usually 2nd fl.
Ah you mean the second monitor? Sorry, I need it. It will stay.
Ah you mean the second monitor? Sorry, I need it. It will stay.
OMG this is not the world for the stupid like me. What is "variovent" and "slotted back" cabinets? Those terms are searchable here at DIY but never explained. That's also my case - I want a good sealed box.
Sealed is fine.
Yes, I meant that big second portrait monitor, not the diffusers.
I see it's on a swivel arm, so, for more serious listening, maybe you can swing it as far as possible, angled away from you because there would be some massive first reflections hitting you so close, it will mess up the frequencies on the right side a lot, and also some of the left side.
I'm away from home but my boxes are roughly 25-30cm squares. Roughly 12 liters. I'll measure exactly what I get home. To counteract the standing waves that would happen in a cube shaped box, I put a panel at an angle on the back panel, inside the box. You could make the box a bit thinner and a bit longer to keep the same volume, but I would still place a small deflector inside the box. I used polyfill for stuffing.
TB sent a pair of drivers to this guy, and he built a box for them. I'm guessing he followed the cabinet suggestion on the TB site, which is 24x20x32cm (outside dims), inside volume is 17 liters. Being sealed, you will be a bit smaller than that. And forget about the XO posted there. I tried it and it was pretty bad.
For fun, here's the video, if you have time to kill:
Yes, I meant that big second portrait monitor, not the diffusers.
I see it's on a swivel arm, so, for more serious listening, maybe you can swing it as far as possible, angled away from you because there would be some massive first reflections hitting you so close, it will mess up the frequencies on the right side a lot, and also some of the left side.
I'm away from home but my boxes are roughly 25-30cm squares. Roughly 12 liters. I'll measure exactly what I get home. To counteract the standing waves that would happen in a cube shaped box, I put a panel at an angle on the back panel, inside the box. You could make the box a bit thinner and a bit longer to keep the same volume, but I would still place a small deflector inside the box. I used polyfill for stuffing.
TB sent a pair of drivers to this guy, and he built a box for them. I'm guessing he followed the cabinet suggestion on the TB site, which is 24x20x32cm (outside dims), inside volume is 17 liters. Being sealed, you will be a bit smaller than that. And forget about the XO posted there. I tried it and it was pretty bad.
For fun, here's the video, if you have time to kill:
If you could, the best would be to have stands on each side of your desk, and adjust to ear level.
If not, I would use decoupling pads and risers to put the speakers at ear level. Stuff from Auralex or IsoAcoustics for example. Of course, it's the kind of thing you could also DIY with butyl rubber pads and risers. The stuff they use for car door noise insulation. Layers of it with xps or wood blocks to get the height and angle needed.
If not, I would use decoupling pads and risers to put the speakers at ear level. Stuff from Auralex or IsoAcoustics for example. Of course, it's the kind of thing you could also DIY with butyl rubber pads and risers. The stuff they use for car door noise insulation. Layers of it with xps or wood blocks to get the height and angle needed.
But in general, when some vertical space is available, would you prefer golden ratio or straight in the middle? Kef ls50 is the middle, Genelecs in the middle, etc. ; Voxativ is golden ratio. Tannoy Westminster Royal golden ratio...
It's no as clear cut as that.
Placement on the baffle will affect the output. Generally, an offset placement is better than everything centered, but there are other considerations. Drivers own output for one. If the driver has a dip around a baffle peak, they will work together nicely. If the driver has a peak at the baffle peak, then it will enhance the peak.
One good software is The Edge (or the more full fledge Basta), which will show you the effect of baffle size and driver placement. Add to that the driver's output and you will get a good idea of the resulting driver's placement and baffle size.
http://www.tolvan.com/index.php?page=/edge/edge.php
And, of course, the other consideration is visual. Many people will prefer drivers nicely aligned on a baffle or centered, thinking it looks much better in a living room, then some offset stuff. 🙂
Placement on the baffle will affect the output. Generally, an offset placement is better than everything centered, but there are other considerations. Drivers own output for one. If the driver has a dip around a baffle peak, they will work together nicely. If the driver has a peak at the baffle peak, then it will enhance the peak.
One good software is The Edge (or the more full fledge Basta), which will show you the effect of baffle size and driver placement. Add to that the driver's output and you will get a good idea of the resulting driver's placement and baffle size.
http://www.tolvan.com/index.php?page=/edge/edge.php
And, of course, the other consideration is visual. Many people will prefer drivers nicely aligned on a baffle or centered, thinking it looks much better in a living room, then some offset stuff. 🙂
WinISD gives me 6.77 L sealed box if I want the flat 0.703 Qtc (or 6.65 L for Qtc 0.707). Well and 1 L for the driver itself, so I guess it's 7.8 L. @perceval, is that the volume you picked for your sealed? @PlanarGianca, your wall box also looks pretty tiny, is that the volume you've picked?
My target is desk nearfield at 2 ft, so I want to optimize mids quality and address the bass later with a sub, if necessary. Is the default WinISD QTS of 0.703 optimized for my goal?
My target is desk nearfield at 2 ft, so I want to optimize mids quality and address the bass later with a sub, if necessary. Is the default WinISD QTS of 0.703 optimized for my goal?
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A 0.7 Qtc is usually what people refer to as the go-to for the most basic installations. Think middle of the ground room and listening expectations.
Since my boxes would be so close to me, and the wall behind the desk will naturally enhance the lower end, I went with about 12 litres.
I also added a port, that I plugged to run it sealed in my usual configuration. But, should I need to, I can take the plug out, install the speakers in the bedroom, or any other room, and enjoy the clean sound, with a bit more meat without needing a sub, as long as I don't ask them to play electronica!
Sealed at 12 litres gives a f3 at about 80Hz with a very gradual rolloff. Unplug the vents, and f3 goes now to 50Hz, with a much steeper rolloff.
Going at 12 litres means the Qtc lowers to 0.6. You'll lose 2 Hz at f3, but the curve is more gradual. Also, your ears being so close and the wall behind the speakers, the room will fill in this area. In this case, as in your situation, I'd prefer a slightly more damped enclosure, then if I were sitting on the couch of my living room.
Also, a 6.7 litres box doesn't leave much room to put polyfill, and the back of the box will be very close to the driver's cone... it will be very hard to control the back wave hitting the cone, which will result in distortion. With 12 litres, there's more space to play with adding internal angles, and I even added a layer of melamine foam on the back wall, to absorb the back wave.
Back at home due to the very late in the season typhoon that decimated the east coast here.
Stuck, but also enjoying my W6!
So, my boxes are 15 litres, but deduct 3 because of the internal deflector. They are bigger because I made them with a vent, that is plugged at the moment, so they can be used in different situations, should I want to.
At the moment, Tool is playing. Love how the W6 render the cabs wincing at the power these guys put out. Most speakers would garble this out, the W6 show every moment the cabs are struggling during the recording. They stay utter clean for the hits on the high toms.
I'll leave again tomorrow, stuff to take care at other places. Will miss them!
Finally I've built the box and should get the W6 tomorrow. I need to design the crossover next. I have a calibrated mic so the FRD file should be no problem, but I really stumble on impedance measurement. I don't have a non-inductive resistor, no soundcard jacks and the wiring will be challenging. Can you folks please donate me an impedance file for W6?
Initial measurements of my new 12L sealed box. I protected the tweeter with 2.2 uF cap, perhaps it's too small and the measurement is busted, but I don't have any other cap.
For now I listen a weird combo - one speaker is this one, tweeter is guarded with $8 3.5 kHz Daytone high pass, woofer is naked. The other box is Dynaudio Emit 10. The combo sounds quite better than 2 Dyns. Of course the soundstage is borked, but the sound is more detailed and gentle. I started to hear new instruments out of the blue. Apparently Dyns are not doing their job quite well, that's why I started this DIY.
Can I design an XO with this or I need to get a larger cap first?