As tb46 suggested I start a thread on building bjorno's T-TQWT tang band drivers
I am in the process of building 2 X 15" ported subs in 13 cu ft enclosures as part of the riser in my theatre (room size is 14' X 23' - both rear firing - riser 5' from back wall) )
the question is do you forsee a problem with building one or 2 of these single or double T-TQWT subs to put at front of theatre? built into the front stage
Room is all drywalled ... just need to build sub/riser and do acoustic wall treatments (looking for a Canadian distributor for a acoustically transparent fabric supplier as GOM and Dazian are very expensive to bring north of the 49th)
Room is a little messy in this pic but you can see 3 of the recliners that I have in there to do a template for the curve in the riser
here is a rendering of what I want the room to look like when finished
I am in the process of building 2 X 15" ported subs in 13 cu ft enclosures as part of the riser in my theatre (room size is 14' X 23' - both rear firing - riser 5' from back wall) )
the question is do you forsee a problem with building one or 2 of these single or double T-TQWT subs to put at front of theatre? built into the front stage
Room is all drywalled ... just need to build sub/riser and do acoustic wall treatments (looking for a Canadian distributor for a acoustically transparent fabric supplier as GOM and Dazian are very expensive to bring north of the 49th)
Room is a little messy in this pic but you can see 3 of the recliners that I have in there to do a template for the curve in the riser
here is a rendering of what I want the room to look like when finished
This is the framing design I will follow to build the stage and I would like to incorporate the T-TQWT subs into either end and vent in the corners
Hi Scruffyht,
I don't see any problems with the general idea. You just will have to decide which type of enclosure you want, and how to fit it into the plan. The height of the risers will determine how difficult the design and construction will be. If the riser is heigh enough to allow vertical mounting of the driver (cone-to-magnet axis horizontal) this should be straight forward, if the riser forces the driver into horizontal mounting it will be more difficult.
Do you already have the drivers?
Regards,
I don't see any problems with the general idea. You just will have to decide which type of enclosure you want, and how to fit it into the plan. The height of the risers will determine how difficult the design and construction will be. If the riser is heigh enough to allow vertical mounting of the driver (cone-to-magnet axis horizontal) this should be straight forward, if the riser forces the driver into horizontal mounting it will be more difficult.
Do you already have the drivers?
Regards,
Hi tb46
yes ... one of the drivers has been purchased (SDX15) and the other will be a TC Sounds LMS-R 15 (yet to be purchased) ... MikeP over at the shack did all the modeling for box design ... wood already cut and just finishing up some other stuff in the basment before I complete the subs
those 2 subs will be built into the riser for the back row of seats
The T-TQWT I am thinking of for the stage under the screen ... I think they could work in the rectangular area at the back ... I had planned on the stage being 8" to 10" tall ... can we accomodate 2 X T-TQWT in a space 14' X ~ 28"?
another question is if I vent it in the corners will it effectively increase the port length and effect the sound from the sub?
Thanks
yes ... one of the drivers has been purchased (SDX15) and the other will be a TC Sounds LMS-R 15 (yet to be purchased) ... MikeP over at the shack did all the modeling for box design ... wood already cut and just finishing up some other stuff in the basment before I complete the subs
those 2 subs will be built into the riser for the back row of seats
The T-TQWT I am thinking of for the stage under the screen ... I think they could work in the rectangular area at the back ... I had planned on the stage being 8" to 10" tall ... can we accomodate 2 X T-TQWT in a space 14' X ~ 28"?
another question is if I vent it in the corners will it effectively increase the port length and effect the sound from the sub?
Thanks
Hi bjorno ... too bad all the wood has already been cut for the 15" subs 🙂 ... based on the winisd that I posted do you think a TH would outperform the ported box I am building?
Hi Scruffyht,
In terms of a similar size targeting SQ,No.
I have no doubts that a TH would offer better quality if large enough like the TH 'Kraken'.
But I prefer T-TQWT's, T-QWP's or ML-TQWP,s over TH's because of:
1. Much smaller boxes for a given lower boundary of the BW.(Trading SPL for BW).
2.No need for an EQ or signal delay(s) when targeting smooth integration with the main speakers.
3. Easy to interface with the mains,the Pre-pulse has a larger amplitude opposed to a TH. The summed Pre-Pulse and the Main-Pulse are within Ear-Brain fusing time so when aligning the mains with either: Will not cause timing issues like from an larger airway's of a TH.
4. Last: All T-TQWT's, T-QWP's and ML-TQWP,s relies on stuffing in the enclosures, the devil off-band peaks (dips) are brought down to blameless levels much improving the FR / IR.= IMO the main reason why the T-TQWT's, T-QWP's and ML-TQWP,s sounds superior when compared to a TH.
IMO,BR boxes equipped with large ports suffers from noise if not stuffed. (Only MJK:s and programs like AKAbak can handle this issue properly in a simulation, (if adding damping materials)) and thumbs down for any port that has a port-area less than Sd/3.
b🙂
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sub built into stage.
I built my subwoofer into my stage, but it was before hornresp was available, and before I had ever heard of tapped horns. I made mine as a pair of sealed subs. I ran into the same issues you will face with height. There is no simple solution.
If I ever feel ambitious, I'll model my 18" Avalance drivers in a T-TQWT enclosure and see what they can do. I'll bet the pair of them will be more than sufficient for most movies in a home-theater.
The illustrated "sealed" subs work well, but tend to walk across the floor on some movies. I think I could do an interesting TH or T-TQWT design in the same physical space and have less issues with them walking.
Check it out here with the different possible designs... perhaps one will give you ideas:
DIY Proscenium Subwoofer
and
HTGuide Forum - View Single Post - DIY Subwoofer Showcase
Joe L.
I built my subwoofer into my stage, but it was before hornresp was available, and before I had ever heard of tapped horns. I made mine as a pair of sealed subs. I ran into the same issues you will face with height. There is no simple solution.
If I ever feel ambitious, I'll model my 18" Avalance drivers in a T-TQWT enclosure and see what they can do. I'll bet the pair of them will be more than sufficient for most movies in a home-theater.
The illustrated "sealed" subs work well, but tend to walk across the floor on some movies. I think I could do an interesting TH or T-TQWT design in the same physical space and have less issues with them walking.
Check it out here with the different possible designs... perhaps one will give you ideas:
DIY Proscenium Subwoofer
and
HTGuide Forum - View Single Post - DIY Subwoofer Showcase
Joe L.
Hi Scruffyht,
To Post #5, let me see if I got it:
1. Your 15" driver subs are already taken care of, and will be used in the back row seat riser.
2. Your front stage will be a maximum of 10" high, and you can allot an area of 14' x ~28" for the T-TQWTs.
That would result in each T-TQWT being 10"H x 28"W x 84"L. Drivers like e.g.: the old SDX15 will not fit into that height; the SDX15 is 9.625"deep, and that's without the half-roll surround. Even the JBL GTO1214 that is used in the Kraken speakers does not quite fit into the 10" dimension.
Staying with the Kraken series as an example: the Kraken 112 (single GTO1214) is 14.094"H x 23.543"W x 64.606"L. If you could increase your height dimension to 14" for the subwoofer section, this could be redesigned to fit. I end up with V_net=288.7 L for the Kraken 112. Or, you could fit a dual GTO1214 T-TQWT into that height, V_net=170-175 L.
As to the corner adding length, if you use "Ang=0.5 x Pi" in Hornresp that is already taken care of. So for you specific subs the model should be optimized for corner placement.
Regards,
To Post #5, let me see if I got it:
1. Your 15" driver subs are already taken care of, and will be used in the back row seat riser.
2. Your front stage will be a maximum of 10" high, and you can allot an area of 14' x ~28" for the T-TQWTs.
That would result in each T-TQWT being 10"H x 28"W x 84"L. Drivers like e.g.: the old SDX15 will not fit into that height; the SDX15 is 9.625"deep, and that's without the half-roll surround. Even the JBL GTO1214 that is used in the Kraken speakers does not quite fit into the 10" dimension.
Staying with the Kraken series as an example: the Kraken 112 (single GTO1214) is 14.094"H x 23.543"W x 64.606"L. If you could increase your height dimension to 14" for the subwoofer section, this could be redesigned to fit. I end up with V_net=288.7 L for the Kraken 112. Or, you could fit a dual GTO1214 T-TQWT into that height, V_net=170-175 L.
As to the corner adding length, if you use "Ang=0.5 x Pi" in Hornresp that is already taken care of. So for you specific subs the model should be optimized for corner placement.
Regards,
OK bjorno ... I am open minded enough to explore what you are saying (dont understand it all but willing to listen 🙂 )lets assume for a minute that I redeign the riser to accomodate 2 large 15" T-TQWT designs ... what would each look like in size? ... The dimension of the riser (including curve front and rear to follow the curvature of the recliners) is 120" X 78" X 16"
The stage will be 168" X ~ 28" X ~ 8" to 10" - thinking 2 X T-TQWT like you designed for permo
Thanks
Hi Oliver ... what I was thinking for the stage is the tang band T-TQWT you and bjorno designed for permo ... would that work in the stage? ... if you look at the stage design ... the "box framing" sits further back than the front corners where it would vent
Hi Joe ... nice sub/stage build 🙂 ... unfortunately I dont have that kind of room ... I even went with a 2.40 screen to control vertical height while still getting a 136" diagonal as I have a perimeter soffit that "had" to be built to cover up ducting for the second floor furnace ... as a result I have just under 7' under the soffit
I know the original post was for a T-TQWT design...
My drawings of my stage with proposed speaker placement were intended to give ideas how you might orient speakers to keep the proposed 10 inch height. It will not be easy with any driver over 8" in diameter. (if you figure the top and bottom of the enclosure are 3/4" material, that leave 8 1/2 inches internal height.)
depending on the driver, you might be able to angle them to fit them in the proposed space.
If I had known more about horn designs I might have gone with a tapped-horn design of some kind. I could have probably fit a compression chamber under the drivers and a relatively simple fold across the stage.
Joe L.
Hi Oliver ... I had not thought of running the sub along the length of the wall ... I had originally envisioned it running width-wise and that is why I was wondering about port length due to that extended piece on the side of the curved "steps"
I have 18" on either side of the screen for L & R speakers and had planned on the "steps" located between ... that would make the sub 18" X ? X 10" (?=not sure how long it would have to be to fit in that space or if it would even work) ... that is why I was thinking of building it width-wise
Hey Joe ... If you have the time/energy the 2 guys that can help design such a enclosure are right here in this thread 😉 (bjorno & tb46)
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