1701A interconnects
The Belden 1701A interconnects I'm using now are the first ones I made up and are using all of the pairs but I have also had other sets that only used one of the twisted pairs and it is very difficult to tell the difference and much easier with one pair. There is also a slight difference in length between the different twist rates of the pair sets. 9 inches difference for a 10 foot run. I recommend one pair now.
Troubleshooting a seemingly dead board?
Hey all, I received a 2nd board today, but it appears to not be working after a few hours use! I'll have to ask for a replacement, but I'd be interested to know what's happened to this board.
I've done some testing and I'm getting some strange things happening, it appears to almost short circuit my PSU!
I'm now testing with a 12v 1a supply just to be on the safe side, when I turn the amp on the input voltage drops to around 3v.
After measure a small amount of DC offset (60mV) at output one output and 0mV at the other, it appears that the measured resistance at the output with 0mV is also 0ohm - a dead short basically.
I've seen similar things when TA2020 chips die, so could this be that one of the TK2050's has died and the other one is ok? Would it be possible to use this as a single channel board is I managed to disconnect power from the non-working TK2050 chip, has anyone done this? I was thinking I could at least use this board for testing mods out before committing the mods to a working board.
I'm going to try removing all the output section components from the bad TK2050 first, just to check there isn't a short from the PCB...
Is there an easy way of removing power from a single TK2050 without removing power from the other TK2050?
Hey all, I received a 2nd board today, but it appears to not be working after a few hours use! I'll have to ask for a replacement, but I'd be interested to know what's happened to this board.
I've done some testing and I'm getting some strange things happening, it appears to almost short circuit my PSU!
I'm now testing with a 12v 1a supply just to be on the safe side, when I turn the amp on the input voltage drops to around 3v.
After measure a small amount of DC offset (60mV) at output one output and 0mV at the other, it appears that the measured resistance at the output with 0mV is also 0ohm - a dead short basically.
I've seen similar things when TA2020 chips die, so could this be that one of the TK2050's has died and the other one is ok? Would it be possible to use this as a single channel board is I managed to disconnect power from the non-working TK2050 chip, has anyone done this? I was thinking I could at least use this board for testing mods out before committing the mods to a working board.
I'm going to try removing all the output section components from the bad TK2050 first, just to check there isn't a short from the PCB...
Is there an easy way of removing power from a single TK2050 without removing power from the other TK2050?
Last edited:
Possibly the easiest way would be to remove the part itself....But which one!
Possibly a very low ohms meter may help trace the faulty one, but if you are doing as planned and are to remove all O/P stage devices, take care with the TK2050's with a view to re-fitting the 'good' one --IF there is one still working....
The data sheet shows the supply-pins so it should be easy to see when they are off the board....
I dont think the supply is 'linked through' one to get to the other, so removing one should not upset anything....
It seems that when these boards fail, from what Ive read, its the 2050's that go. Hopefully they dont take the sig-processor with 'em....
I believe/read somewhere, these chips are made by Nat Semi, and in the same range, there is a slightly 'higher power' chip that MAY be pin compatable, havent checked that closely, but its the same package and designed for same use...Summit like TA508 as I recall, original is re-branded TA505
I removed the output inductors on the output which was measuring 0 ohm, and it does seem that the short traces back to the TK2050 - the speaker output terminals were no longer 0 ohm with the inductors removed.
I tried to find if any of the pins had solder where there shouldn't be, but I couldn't, so in the end I double checked which TK2050 was causing the short and pulled it out with some pliers. I also pulled a few traces in the process, so I can't really put in a replacement now, but the board now powers up and my supply now stays at 12v.
Under the bad TK2050, there were burn marks on the traces which were soldered to the TK2050! I guess I may have had bad heatsink contact, or simply some bad soldering, anyway I'm not going to hunt down some speakers and am going to try it out in mono.
I guess I may have saved this board from the bin!
I think even if a higher output device was used in place of the TK2050, there's only so much current that can go thru those tiny pins...
I tried to find if any of the pins had solder where there shouldn't be, but I couldn't, so in the end I double checked which TK2050 was causing the short and pulled it out with some pliers. I also pulled a few traces in the process, so I can't really put in a replacement now, but the board now powers up and my supply now stays at 12v.
Under the bad TK2050, there were burn marks on the traces which were soldered to the TK2050! I guess I may have had bad heatsink contact, or simply some bad soldering, anyway I'm not going to hunt down some speakers and am going to try it out in mono.
I guess I may have saved this board from the bin!I think even if a higher output device was used in place of the TK2050, there's only so much current that can go thru those tiny pins...
Last edited:
Oh well, Pliers will Defo sort it!
Shame though.....
I made a bit of a boob, the actual re-brand is alledgedly a STA505 from ST Micro, and the larger chip power-wise is the STA508--Which may or may not work in the board....
--I have no idea where you'd get them, maybe from ST agents somewhere...
Here are the data sheets-
http://www.st.com/stonline/products/literature/ds/8166/sta505.pdf
http://www.st.com/stonline/products/literature/ds/9821/sta508.pdf
There's also the STA510A chip alledgedly rated at 200W into 4 ohm at 39V....
http://www.st.com/stonline/products/literature/ds/11077/sta510a.pdf
Shame though.....
I made a bit of a boob, the actual re-brand is alledgedly a STA505 from ST Micro, and the larger chip power-wise is the STA508--Which may or may not work in the board....
--I have no idea where you'd get them, maybe from ST agents somewhere...
Here are the data sheets-
http://www.st.com/stonline/products/literature/ds/8166/sta505.pdf
http://www.st.com/stonline/products/literature/ds/9821/sta508.pdf
There's also the STA510A chip alledgedly rated at 200W into 4 ohm at 39V....
http://www.st.com/stonline/products/literature/ds/11077/sta510a.pdf
Last edited:
After replacing the TC2000 with a new one bought from Sure my board has been fully functional again for a couple of months already.
Not that I know of....
The TC2000 and its friends are the actual Tripath chips. The MOSFET bridges (TP2050, STA505 STA510 STA516B etc) are just the out-put stages and are not That special--Just a bunch of big MOSFETS and a bit of controller gear. Its the sig-processing in the TC2000 that makes it a Tripath amp--Thats where the 'magic' is...
I'm guessing someone still makes them, or Sure wouldnt be able to use them. I doubt that much 'old-stock' exists, so all 'new' Tripath chips are current production somewhere--Prolly Korea or China.....
('New' TA2020-020 are marked, Korea, all my TA2020-020 that I got years ago are marked, USA)
Semi makers follow the 'just-in-time' method of production, not vast numbers kept on the shelf......
Thanks for the info guys, nice to know ST make some equivalent parts.
I managed to dig out a speaker and give it a go, but no sound. 🙁
My 5v line is ok, and the mute terminal was around 0.3v, so mute should not be engaged....
I guess if I would have cut the pins on the TK2050 first, then I could have unsoldered it properly... A little more elegant than twisting the chip out with pliers!
My guess is that the TC2000 is dead also... I think I'm just gonna have to resign this board to the spares bin, and have to wait for the replacement to arrive.
I managed to dig out a speaker and give it a go, but no sound. 🙁
My 5v line is ok, and the mute terminal was around 0.3v, so mute should not be engaged....
I guess if I would have cut the pins on the TK2050 first, then I could have unsoldered it properly... A little more elegant than twisting the chip out with pliers!
My guess is that the TC2000 is dead also... I think I'm just gonna have to resign this board to the spares bin, and have to wait for the replacement to arrive.
ST has a competing design that they acquired from Apogee: the DDX controller. From the attachment, it looks like someone is interested in comparing the TC2000 "analog" modulator to the DDX "digital" modulator. Should be interesting...
Look at the following link. ST was the foundry for Tripath, and there was a very broad cross-licensing agreement that gave ST rights to manufacture the Tripath parts. Some of the Tripath parts listed at hkinventory.com have an ST logo...
SEC Info - Tripath Technology Inc - S-1/A - On 6/7/00 - EX-10.2
Semi makers follow the 'just-in-time' method of production, not vast numbers kept on the shelf......
...and if they don't, then stockholders will sue. Look at this link, which suggests that much of the current inventory is from unsold excess stock:
http://securities.stanford.edu/1032/TRPH04_01/index.html
Hmm, There's some interesting information on a site called 41Hz.com....
Their 'amp11' uses the TC2000 and a variety of out-put stages, there was a post on their forum illustrating that these were developed by Apogee and later sold to ST Micro.
Seems the largest output stage chip is the STA517B, rated at 160W into 8 ohm or 320W into 4 ohm at 51V....
--It was also developed by Apogee, and ST have just started making it, but it looks to be hard to come by....
Tis a great shame Tripath messed up and went under, but at least the technology lives on....
--Any idea what chip was their last, most 'up-to-date' audio amp?
From what I see, the latest was back in 2003, the TA2021B, a 25W '12v' chip, not unlike the 2020 but SMT....
Their 'amp11' uses the TC2000 and a variety of out-put stages, there was a post on their forum illustrating that these were developed by Apogee and later sold to ST Micro.
Seems the largest output stage chip is the STA517B, rated at 160W into 8 ohm or 320W into 4 ohm at 51V....
--It was also developed by Apogee, and ST have just started making it, but it looks to be hard to come by....
Tis a great shame Tripath messed up and went under, but at least the technology lives on....
--Any idea what chip was their last, most 'up-to-date' audio amp?
From what I see, the latest was back in 2003, the TA2021B, a 25W '12v' chip, not unlike the 2020 but SMT....
I will most likely only be having mono speakers, so basically it would be enough with one powersupply?
I don't think Apogee developed the output stages--looks like ST did that. The STA308 is the same as the Apogee DDX2100, which is the same as the Tripath TP2050. Apogee is long-gone from the amp business, but ST is still refining the output stages and the DDX controllers.
The most recent Tripath datasheet that I know of is the TCA2002. Same pinout as the TC2000--just some refinements.
So, It would be feasable--If you can get hold of these chips to make/update the Sure board to the latest spec technology, and up-rate/make more reliable, with a newer version of the output chip....?
--Hmm, Sounds like a nice plan for a Winters night....🙄
It's probably not feasible to use the Sure board for the STA517B's. The higher voltage (around 50V) requires many changes, and the higher voltage parts won't fit.
I don't think Tripath refined the modulator for the TCA2002...they just added features that you can also implement with the TC2000 and a micro. I'd rather use a micro 🙂
Hi,
I don't know if this has been posted here already, but it seems that the highest-powered output stage chip that is easily available is the DDX-2240. DDX-2160 are similar; Mikechw at the 41Hz forums put those into an Amp11, and liked the sound: 41Hz Audio Forum - STA508 and STA510A ... near the middle of the page
Gerber Electronics has the DDX-2240 for $3.30: Gerber Electronics - Ordering Instructions - Our Greatest Component is Your Satisfaction
DDX-2240 is hard-max 45V, recommended for 40V. Overcurrent limit is 7A typical, but depends on ... the mood of the chip?
Datasheet: http://www.apogeemems.com/ddx/PDFs/DDX-2200.pdf
I don't know if this has been posted here already, but it seems that the highest-powered output stage chip that is easily available is the DDX-2240. DDX-2160 are similar; Mikechw at the 41Hz forums put those into an Amp11, and liked the sound: 41Hz Audio Forum - STA508 and STA510A ... near the middle of the page
Gerber Electronics has the DDX-2240 for $3.30: Gerber Electronics - Ordering Instructions - Our Greatest Component is Your Satisfaction
DDX-2240 is hard-max 45V, recommended for 40V. Overcurrent limit is 7A typical, but depends on ... the mood of the chip?
Datasheet: http://www.apogeemems.com/ddx/PDFs/DDX-2200.pdf
Well, at the end there has to be a cap in there somewhere, except if you use
Transformers. The capless Chalize is not capless if you have to have a cap on
the output of your Dac or Pre. There are active solutions also, but it is very hard to get them sounding better than a single cap. There are so many output schemes that I have tried and right now I am most happy with a Sikorell 220uf bypassed with a 2200pf Silvermica. Sounds better than all other caps I tried.
I have to live with the turn on pop though, but I just don,t
turn the thing off.
Greets,
Klaus
- Status
- Not open for further replies.