kelticwizard said:
I consider that to be a huge number. But there is nothing wrong with living in a trailer if you choose to.
O.K I’ve been reading some of the arguments some people have made for attacking Iraq.
Its time to put your money where your mouth is with regards to ONE and only ONE simple question
If you people believe even one tenth of what you preach about freedom and democracy, YOU KNOW there is a fundamental cornerstone that can't be argued or reasoned with, that is the people rule, the people are the sovereign and government installed by popular vote REPRESENTS the will of ALL the people
THIS IS LAW AND YOUR DUTY WITH NO EXCUSES WHAT SO EVER, PERIOD!!!!!
(remember what WWII was relay about?)
Because of this FACT you MUST accept responsibility for the actions of YOUR government bar nothing
O.K now for the question
As well as everything else you take credit for
do you people take responcabilty for the ten thousand plus civilians your free opinions killed?
[1] YES I believe in what I preach and accept I’ve killed AT LEAST four times as many civilians as al qeada
[2] NO I talk tuff and it is everybody else’s fault
[3] NIETHER I'm like mr bush, I want to have my cake and eat it too
Its time to put your money where your mouth is with regards to ONE and only ONE simple question
If you people believe even one tenth of what you preach about freedom and democracy, YOU KNOW there is a fundamental cornerstone that can't be argued or reasoned with, that is the people rule, the people are the sovereign and government installed by popular vote REPRESENTS the will of ALL the people
THIS IS LAW AND YOUR DUTY WITH NO EXCUSES WHAT SO EVER, PERIOD!!!!!
(remember what WWII was relay about?)
Because of this FACT you MUST accept responsibility for the actions of YOUR government bar nothing
O.K now for the question
As well as everything else you take credit for
do you people take responcabilty for the ten thousand plus civilians your free opinions killed?
[1] YES I believe in what I preach and accept I’ve killed AT LEAST four times as many civilians as al qeada
[2] NO I talk tuff and it is everybody else’s fault
[3] NIETHER I'm like mr bush, I want to have my cake and eat it too
My grandfather was a dutch refujee 😉 who came to New Zealand in the 1950's with his wife who was also dutch, she had 38 members of her family disposed of because THEY became a logestical PROBLEM
It was to hard to feed THEM and the army at the same time
THEY became a PROBLEM because hitlers army got stuck in the snow
It was to hard to feed THEM and the army at the same time
THEY became a PROBLEM because hitlers army got stuck in the snow
Hi,
My grandfather went to South Africa in 1948. Since he lived in that country should he also accept full responsibility for Apartheid?
And since your grandfather also lived in the Netherlands is he responsible for the genocide in Indonesia?
And since you live in a country usurped from the Maori's are you co-responsible for the continuation of occupation of their land?
I find your explanation of US politics and complicity of the general population a little to easy. And as the majority of americans don't know what their goverment has done how can they be responsible? Many of the actions of the US government were covert and remain secret.
For instance the murdering of democracy on 9/11 - 1973 in Chile was aided by parts of the US security services (covert) (led to about 3500 murders)(US government has apologized for this.)(Notice the similarities between the 911 New York massacre?) how can the avarage Joe be blamed???
My grandfather went to South Africa in 1948. Since he lived in that country should he also accept full responsibility for Apartheid?
And since your grandfather also lived in the Netherlands is he responsible for the genocide in Indonesia?
And since you live in a country usurped from the Maori's are you co-responsible for the continuation of occupation of their land?
I find your explanation of US politics and complicity of the general population a little to easy. And as the majority of americans don't know what their goverment has done how can they be responsible? Many of the actions of the US government were covert and remain secret.
For instance the murdering of democracy on 9/11 - 1973 in Chile was aided by parts of the US security services (covert) (led to about 3500 murders)(US government has apologized for this.)(Notice the similarities between the 911 New York massacre?) how can the avarage Joe be blamed???
I think you may have missed the piont 😉
As far as whos land is whos there is no occupation of any thing
Maori and Non Maori are equal, Thats writen into the treaty of Waitangi (thats why-tung-ee) singed by Maroi and the crown back in the nineteenth century, there is no us and them, we are one poeple and have a common identity in being Kiwi's
We have been to war side by side defending N.Z in WWII and
we have been sucked into other peoples wars together ie. WWI, Korea, Vieatnam ect.
We kicked the British out (no British rule) and the Americans out (the hippies wanted nuke free zone in the pacific) last century but there still our friends 🙂
We have a proud history and our culture is defined as much by Maori as it is European, its an intresting mix that makes a Kiwi
The treaty has its flaws but its our (N.Z's) founding document
wether we like it or not
It hasn't been perfict but compaired to other former Brittish collonies I think we make do very well with what we've got.
The flaws in the treaty come mainly from the fact the English vesion is slightly diferent from the Maori version a.k.a bad translation, it gives dubble meanings to the same things
This causes what are mainly legal diferences in how some laws should be defined with regard to public land use
There are always big debates to be worked out before a new bill is passed
Infact Maori have more say than Non Maori in a lot of issues concerning land rites
but im not worried
A kiwi is a Kiwi !!
As far as whos land is whos there is no occupation of any thing
Maori and Non Maori are equal, Thats writen into the treaty of Waitangi (thats why-tung-ee) singed by Maroi and the crown back in the nineteenth century, there is no us and them, we are one poeple and have a common identity in being Kiwi's
We have been to war side by side defending N.Z in WWII and
we have been sucked into other peoples wars together ie. WWI, Korea, Vieatnam ect.
We kicked the British out (no British rule) and the Americans out (the hippies wanted nuke free zone in the pacific) last century but there still our friends 🙂
We have a proud history and our culture is defined as much by Maori as it is European, its an intresting mix that makes a Kiwi
The treaty has its flaws but its our (N.Z's) founding document
wether we like it or not
It hasn't been perfict but compaired to other former Brittish collonies I think we make do very well with what we've got.
The flaws in the treaty come mainly from the fact the English vesion is slightly diferent from the Maori version a.k.a bad translation, it gives dubble meanings to the same things
This causes what are mainly legal diferences in how some laws should be defined with regard to public land use
There are always big debates to be worked out before a new bill is passed
Infact Maori have more say than Non Maori in a lot of issues concerning land rites
but im not worried
A kiwi is a Kiwi !!
Hi,
You may have missed the point as well.😉
I am sure the treaty of Waitangi was not signed on equal basis...I.e. it was preceded by a couple of wars or battles.
However you will know more about the history of NZ than I will for sure!
So I won't argue on that point anymore.
How about the other points? Do you understand what I am trying to say?
My point is that the whole world should stop blasting North Americans because there are a whole lot of people that don't fit into gun loving gung ho...lets kick the worlds *** profile. I have seen more people in the USA protesting the war in than here in the Netherlands. I even saw People that had posters in their yard protesting the war...that takes real courage. And shows that there is very much political freedom in America. If I were to have pro war poster in my yard in the Netherlands...I am convinced a few of my windows would be thrown to bits.
Plus the Europeans that think that they are so sophisticated should have a closer look at their very recent past. (Kolonial or otherwize)
Attempts to prosecute Saddam Hoessein after the PROVEN atrocities against the Kurdish people came to nothing because not ONE nation not even USA did not want to do anything for fear of economic backlash or fear of terrorism. (Even if it was in absentia prosecution) That includes New Zealand and the Netherlands...pretty spineless.
Cheers,
Bas
You may have missed the point as well.😉
I am sure the treaty of Waitangi was not signed on equal basis...I.e. it was preceded by a couple of wars or battles.
However you will know more about the history of NZ than I will for sure!
So I won't argue on that point anymore.How about the other points? Do you understand what I am trying to say?
My point is that the whole world should stop blasting North Americans because there are a whole lot of people that don't fit into gun loving gung ho...lets kick the worlds *** profile. I have seen more people in the USA protesting the war in than here in the Netherlands. I even saw People that had posters in their yard protesting the war...that takes real courage. And shows that there is very much political freedom in America. If I were to have pro war poster in my yard in the Netherlands...I am convinced a few of my windows would be thrown to bits.
Plus the Europeans that think that they are so sophisticated should have a closer look at their very recent past. (Kolonial or otherwize)
Attempts to prosecute Saddam Hoessein after the PROVEN atrocities against the Kurdish people came to nothing because not ONE nation not even USA did not want to do anything for fear of economic backlash or fear of terrorism. (Even if it was in absentia prosecution) That includes New Zealand and the Netherlands...pretty spineless.
Cheers,
Bas
Read
Read the 2900 posts (or at least the first 10 pages) it will make more sence if you put it in its context
If it dosen't then I dont know what to say
Read the 2900 posts (or at least the first 10 pages) it will make more sence if you put it in its context
If it dosen't then I dont know what to say
An
And how do you know that those people didn't get their windows thrown to bits?
Bas Horneman said:
And how do you know that those people didn't get their windows thrown to bits?
I have I followed this thread from its inception. What is your point??
My points :
1.) I believe the US should NOT have gone to war on the ticket it did. I.e. Iraq is a threat to world peace and have WMD. I would have supported it with consent of UN to remove a MONSTER like Saddam.
2.) I am sickened by Europeans blaming all the worlds problems on USA without any nuances.
3.) I am sickened by the politics of the US administration after WW2. In South America and Middle east mostly but also MFTN status of China (Europe not any better mind you, they just did not have the abilty to project their power like the usa could)(.
But I don't blame the average Joe. And I don't think the American people are morons which is pretty much how the average European thinks of the average American. Or maybe they are but the only difference between a yankee and eurotrash is that they are generally rightwing morons and eurotrash are leftwing morons.
4.) I think Bush and his cronies are a danger to the world.
5.) I think 90% of middle eastern countries should solve their own problems instead of constantly blaming their problems on the West.
Because Europe has NOT got a clue either.
Bas Horneman said:
1.) How do you think that ticket worked?
2.) Is that true?
3.) Are you talking about what happend and why?
Im trying to put my finger on HOW
There you wont find any differences between anybody
4.) No sh*t sherlock
5) Who told you that?
I dont think thats true
Bas Horneman said:
I think you have missed something human
Bas Horneman said:
NZ hopes for free trade deal quashed
http://www.goasiapacific.com/news/G...cBNP_861330.htm
US bullies New Zealand prime minister into apologising over war comments
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2003/a.../newz-a28.shtml
Clark apologises to US for war comments (New Zealand screws up again)
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/886265/posts
New Zealand military to join occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2003/j.../newz-j21.shtml
New Zealand, China hint of possible free trade pact
http://www.goasiapacific.com/news/G...cBNP_975449.htm
NZ risks 'safe haven' status
(SIS is our CIA)
http://onenews.nzoom.com/onenews_de...945-1-8,00.html
Your playing with fire my friend
ops I think the spooks got to those LINKS 😉
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=352252#post352252
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=352252#post352252
Bas Horneman said:
yes your rite it was a defeat for the so called mighty Brittish empier
And a victory for the so called Maori savage
Any problems and tentions come from the fact there are two interpritations
And later a flood of imergrints from Europe
B.VDBOS said:
Well, certainly a defeat for the Queen's English. Well done, old chap, you've beaten it single-handedly!
me got good spilling
😉
words eh, dont ya love em
I hope America never loses her voice!! (The real one)
SY said:
😉
words eh, dont ya love em
I hope America never loses her voice!! (The real one)
It's funny to see american talk about other using massive destruction weapon, when the us army do just that by killing people with there high tech weapon.
Saddam might be a dictator, what about those put be the us government in south america. Don't tell me your government don't do that. Remember ben ladden, who give him those millions and help him trained soldier. And when iraq qas in war against iran, the us government support them as well.
Now let's take a look at israel and palestinian. When israel attack and kill palestinian with helicopter, tanks and missile they are defending themself (according to bush). When palestinian trow rocks at tanks, they are terrorist.
What is a terrorist. someone who does'nt have to power, money or technology to do better than killing themself with bomb or those governments who kill thousand in the name of freedom with there hitech killing weapon?
whose going to stop bush from starving children and make them orphean in the name of his ideology
Daniel-a
Saddam might be a dictator, what about those put be the us government in south america. Don't tell me your government don't do that. Remember ben ladden, who give him those millions and help him trained soldier. And when iraq qas in war against iran, the us government support them as well.
Now let's take a look at israel and palestinian. When israel attack and kill palestinian with helicopter, tanks and missile they are defending themself (according to bush). When palestinian trow rocks at tanks, they are terrorist.
What is a terrorist. someone who does'nt have to power, money or technology to do better than killing themself with bomb or those governments who kill thousand in the name of freedom with there hitech killing weapon?
whose going to stop bush from starving children and make them orphean in the name of his ideology
Daniel-a
Bas Horneman said:
This may be the most objective post in the thread (which I've read very much from end-to-end).
A couple points that tend to get lost in the drama -
1) WMD discussions & Iraq's possession of same go back to 1993 & the Clinton administration and were continous right up through 2000.
2) Yes, but no one outside of the fringes (right or left) in the USA believes that this is the viewpoint of parity Euro's. The most vocal are the zealots, not the masses.
3) Follow the money. With what is at stake, it perverts right and left equally. BTW, again to Clinton. He opened the MFNT discussions in 1998. Bush is acting on what was set previously in motion. There is no right or left when government is concerned. It exists unto itself. China should remain an outlaw nation.
3, para 2) You nailed it.
4) Any government! Bush, Clinton, name any that are altruistic. Under Clinton's watch, he burned down a building full of religious zealots & used snipers on a pregnant woman. He allowed the sale of tech that let the Chinese leap a decade forward in missile launch technology. Who knows what the bill for this will be in the future? No government is good. This is not just a USA thing either.
5) I don't disagree but you cannot disengage from Israel. 80+ nukes that they won't hesitate to use is why. They won't disarm either.
Europe's governments have no clue. Not neccessarily Europeans. The US government hasn't got a clue either. Not neccessarily Americans.
BTW, Americans are more hooked into world news than you'd think. 66% of the population (200 million) have internet connections. They're not all reading the DIYaudio forums.
😉
speaker
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