Re: the intercepted phone calls
No evidence whatsoever, and funnily enough, the same guy got it wrong last time. So why should we beleive them this time as they desperately scrounge for rationalisations?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,889418,00.html
jackinnj said:
No evidence whatsoever, and funnily enough, the same guy got it wrong last time. So why should we beleive them this time as they desperately scrounge for rationalisations?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,889418,00.html
kelticwizard said:
I did not intend any comparisons beyond both countries being
superpowers in the sense of having enormeous military capacity.
Now when you say it, I do realize that my text might be
misunderstood in the way you mentioned. I could have added
many other examples to the list, had I not tried to be brief.
For instance, post-war France was for a long time also a
super-power, although to a lesser degree, and since they
preferred to stay independent of both the US and the Soviet
they would have their own agenda, not always to the liking
of the world around them. Historically, we have a wealth of
examples of military strong countries and empires that
usually were not, and could not, be trusted by their neighbours.
However, you should not make the mistake to think that
everybody on this side of the Atlantic were convinced that
the US was a nicer guy than Soviet during the cold war. I
grew up during the Vietnam war, so I don't know what people
used to think before that, and this war likely changed many
peoples opinion. Strangely, many seemed to accept, or choose
not to realize, that Soviet marched into and occupied a number
of countries not too far from us, while they complained about
the US fighting wars away from their homeland.
Can someone point me to this evidence? Not being funny, remember the TV & radio coverage we see here in the UK (and elsewhere) will be different to that shown in the US. What I saw implied that the al-Qaeda bases were in Kurdish territory, which makes sense to me because the Kurds are in open conflict with Saddam.
If you're interested, here's the BBC take on this issue:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/2728535.stm
That is the demand that would not comply any country in this world, ever, be it democracy, dictatorship, tyranny, heaven or hell (banana-republics not accounted). Take note: it is even only “the first thing they could do”. There is a very simple conclusion from this: there will be a war. It is already decided. I just heard Mr. Straw announced the deadline to Iraq, Feb. 14. So, there is timing. This entire means: nothing can stop this process. What can we do? Nothing.
Pedja
Why does it seem some of their demands are so unrealistic ?
I wonder what for example Israel would do if such a demand was done ? What about a search for chemical weapons in the USA and other "friendly" nations ? This whole matter stinks regardless of the threat Saddam/ Iraq poses. The USA need oil to drive their Hummers. A nation that is responsible for one third of the worlds pollution still continues to build abnormal vehicles for personal use whilst other parts of the world are designing lighter and less fuel consuming vehicles. What if the world asks the USA for signing the Kyoto treaty ? They refuse simply. What about the world not liking gen changed food that America is producing. They don't even listen.
There is a thin line between good and bad as I see it now. I really have nothing against Americans ( or any other people ) but their world politics are a threat to world peace with the Bush administration.
There must come a marionet instead of Saddam for assuring oil supply to the USA. You don't think it is about people, do you ?
There is going to be a war that will cost a lot of lives whether we want it or not. It has been decided. We can do nothing really.
I wonder what for example Israel would do if such a demand was done ? What about a search for chemical weapons in the USA and other "friendly" nations ? This whole matter stinks regardless of the threat Saddam/ Iraq poses. The USA need oil to drive their Hummers. A nation that is responsible for one third of the worlds pollution still continues to build abnormal vehicles for personal use whilst other parts of the world are designing lighter and less fuel consuming vehicles. What if the world asks the USA for signing the Kyoto treaty ? They refuse simply. What about the world not liking gen changed food that America is producing. They don't even listen.
There is a thin line between good and bad as I see it now. I really have nothing against Americans ( or any other people ) but their world politics are a threat to world peace with the Bush administration.
There must come a marionet instead of Saddam for assuring oil supply to the USA. You don't think it is about people, do you ?
There is going to be a war that will cost a lot of lives whether we want it or not. It has been decided. We can do nothing really.
J-P: Israel is a different matter. It's a democratic republic. Iraq is a dictatorship whose dictator, as a condition of being left in power after having lost a war, agreed to comply with these demands. There's really no parallel. It couldn't happen in France, either, there no longer being a dictator there.
If Saddam were truly a brave patriot as he pretends to be, he would have died defending Bagdhad in '91. But there's no word for "Alamo" in the Iraqi dialect.
If Saddam were truly a brave patriot as he pretends to be, he would have died defending Bagdhad in '91. But there's no word for "Alamo" in the Iraqi dialect.
DECIDED?
Hi,
Not that I'm all that well informed but...
As far as I know the U.S. has provided what they call proof...not that it convinced anyone...and it's now up to the U.N. to decide...
which the U.S. are going to ignore anyway.
The future is so bright I'll have to wear shades...
Hi,
Not that I'm all that well informed but...
As far as I know the U.S. has provided what they call proof...not that it convinced anyone...and it's now up to the U.N. to decide...
which the U.S. are going to ignore anyway.
The future is so bright I'll have to wear shades...
CULTURES.
Hi,
It may seem harsh to say but some people/countries need a dictator before a democracy is installed...I call that a transit period.
Obviously not all that many of us here have been in touch or have travelled the world.
Cheers,😉
Hi,
It may seem harsh to say but some people/countries need a dictator before a democracy is installed...I call that a transit period.
Obviously not all that many of us here have been in touch or have travelled the world.
Cheers,😉
Hi Sy,
We can argue about the fact that Israel is a democratic country but we won't for it 'll pollute this thread.
The USA measures with different instruments however. When the CIA discovered they were tapped by their own equipment Comverse ( Israel ) had sold them the only thing they did was to send the Comverse employees to Israel. It was covered with love.
The Israel lobby in the USA is far to strong for the USA to have an uncolored view on matters in the Middle East.
We can argue about the fact that Israel is a democratic country but we won't for it 'll pollute this thread.
The USA measures with different instruments however. When the CIA discovered they were tapped by their own equipment Comverse ( Israel ) had sold them the only thing they did was to send the Comverse employees to Israel. It was covered with love.
The Israel lobby in the USA is far to strong for the USA to have an uncolored view on matters in the Middle East.
J-P
If the US and UK stood by and let something happen 2 or 3 years down the road, the world would say- the US did nothing! They could have but didn't! The world would stick up its nose anyway, whether we go in or not.
You'd better hope that nothing like 911 happens in your country!! I don't think you want to feel that pain.
God Bless America!!!
If the US and UK stood by and let something happen 2 or 3 years down the road, the world would say- the US did nothing! They could have but didn't! The world would stick up its nose anyway, whether we go in or not.
You'd better hope that nothing like 911 happens in your country!! I don't think you want to feel that pain.
God Bless America!!!
SH*T.
Hi,
Want to get people mad?
Blame your own government for a change...seems we're better informed than you Yanks.
How long is it going to take you shallow people to realise that it may just have been of you're own doing???
Take a good long look at the political history of the U.S. involvement in the Middle East than talk.
Granted, 9/11 is far out as an action,but it still doesn't ring a bell?
Stupidos,😡
Hi,
Want to get people mad?
Blame your own government for a change...seems we're better informed than you Yanks.
How long is it going to take you shallow people to realise that it may just have been of you're own doing???
Take a good long look at the political history of the U.S. involvement in the Middle East than talk.
Granted, 9/11 is far out as an action,but it still doesn't ring a bell?
Stupidos,😡
Re: SH*T.
I think you are a bit unfair here Frank. Yes, al Queda do what
they do largely as a protest against american foreign policy,
but not only. it has been said several times that
Usamas primary goal is to overthrow the Saudi regime, but
he does nothing to that extent, but rather hits the US under
the pretense that he wants the US troops to leave Saudi
Arabia. He seems to forget that these troops are there to
protect Saudi Arabia since the Gulf war and their presence
is sanctioned by the Saudi regime. This is one flaw in his
logic. Also do not forget that al Queada is not only after US
interests. There has been a scaring number of arrests around
Europe where police claim proofs of planned terrorist attacks
in european countries. One of the more spectacular ones
being the arrests about half a year before 9/11 of a terrorist
cell in Germany, claimed to have planned a gas attack against
the European parliment in Strasbourg. The bomb attack in
Bali seems linked to al Queda, although I don't know if it is
confirmed, but it certainly did not primarily hit american citizens.
Five to seven of those killed were swedish, for instance. Most
of the were australians.
BTW, did you know that Usama and one of his elder brothers
were stopped by swedish police for violating the speed limit
when on vacation in Sweden about 30 years ago. The young
Usama looked very much like an american teenager, in T-shirt
and jeans on the photo from that occasion.
fdegrove said:
I think you are a bit unfair here Frank. Yes, al Queda do what
they do largely as a protest against american foreign policy,
but not only. it has been said several times that
Usamas primary goal is to overthrow the Saudi regime, but
he does nothing to that extent, but rather hits the US under
the pretense that he wants the US troops to leave Saudi
Arabia. He seems to forget that these troops are there to
protect Saudi Arabia since the Gulf war and their presence
is sanctioned by the Saudi regime. This is one flaw in his
logic. Also do not forget that al Queada is not only after US
interests. There has been a scaring number of arrests around
Europe where police claim proofs of planned terrorist attacks
in european countries. One of the more spectacular ones
being the arrests about half a year before 9/11 of a terrorist
cell in Germany, claimed to have planned a gas attack against
the European parliment in Strasbourg. The bomb attack in
Bali seems linked to al Queda, although I don't know if it is
confirmed, but it certainly did not primarily hit american citizens.
Five to seven of those killed were swedish, for instance. Most
of the were australians.
BTW, did you know that Usama and one of his elder brothers
were stopped by swedish police for violating the speed limit
when on vacation in Sweden about 30 years ago. The young
Usama looked very much like an american teenager, in T-shirt
and jeans on the photo from that occasion.
AL QUEDA.
Hi,
Ah,ah...and out of all these enquiries for links with terrorism,were there links to Saddam Hussein?Iraq?
Is there any proof out there that links S.H. to Al Queda?
Please...?🙁
Hi,
Ah,ah...and out of all these enquiries for links with terrorism,were there links to Saddam Hussein?Iraq?
Is there any proof out there that links S.H. to Al Queda?
Please...?🙁
Re: AL QUEDA.
That is a different issue, but I thought your previous post referred
to al Queda activities in general, not their claimed connections
to Iraq. Or maybe this was not intended as a response to my
previous post?
fdegrove said:
That is a different issue, but I thought your previous post referred
to al Queda activities in general, not their claimed connections
to Iraq. Or maybe this was not intended as a response to my
previous post?
Re: AL QUEDA.
Really? Where did I say that? I have on several occasion in
this thread asked what proofs there are of a connection
between Iraq and al-Queada and pointed out the two issues
should not be confused unless such a link is established.
fdegrove said:
Really? Where did I say that? I have on several occasion in
this thread asked what proofs there are of a connection
between Iraq and al-Queada and pointed out the two issues
should not be confused unless such a link is established.
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