SY,SY said:
As someone who did not even feel as a Serb before the “international community” discovered deterioration of the Serbian side as a perfect way to “solve” the problems in this region, may I ask you in what sense exactly Kosovo is liberated? Do you know how the Serbs in Kosovo are living now? I mean those Serbs who did not left the Kosovo. It is some 100-200.000 people in question.
Pedja
CIVIL.
Hi,
And what's uncivilized about that?
In the U.S. they eat their crap with a fork.Full stop.
No need to ask for a fish knife...they never heard of it.
American cuisine?
Who,what,where?
Need I continue?😉
Hi,
And what's uncivilized about that?
In the U.S. they eat their crap with a fork.Full stop.
No need to ask for a fish knife...they never heard of it.
American cuisine?
Who,what,where?
Need I continue?😉
Re: SHRAPNELLS
I don't know European countries have elected many, many strange leaders in the past. Hitler comes to mind, so does Austrian facists last year. Tony Blair was elected and he is pretty much supporting Bush, lock stock and barrel, even on many of the dubious things the Bush administration is attributing to Saddam, such as the links to Al'Queda (sp?)
fdegrove said:
I don't know European countries have elected many, many strange leaders in the past. Hitler comes to mind, so does Austrian facists last year. Tony Blair was elected and he is pretty much supporting Bush, lock stock and barrel, even on many of the dubious things the Bush administration is attributing to Saddam, such as the links to Al'Queda (sp?)
Europe, and strange leaders
Yes, we've had our fair share. Franco, de Gaulle, Mussolini, and (yawn) Hitler. As a consequence, the countries in mainland Europe are rather more cautious about starting wars because a proportion of their population remembers being Occupied.
The US and UK have not been Occupied for a long time. Perhaps that explains (not excuses) our belligerence.
Yes, we've had our fair share. Franco, de Gaulle, Mussolini, and (yawn) Hitler. As a consequence, the countries in mainland Europe are rather more cautious about starting wars because a proportion of their population remembers being Occupied.
The US and UK have not been Occupied for a long time. Perhaps that explains (not excuses) our belligerence.
NAP_OIL_EON
Hi,
Being born in Flanders and being aware of the fact that it has been Europes' battlefield for centuries doesn't help either...
Wise men talk,😉
Hi,
Being born in Flanders and being aware of the fact that it has been Europes' battlefield for centuries doesn't help either...
Wise men talk,😉
Let's try to end this tedious thread.
I won't trouble the others here with explanations of my skeptical opinions of various European leaders or the UN.
Rather, I want to suggest that this (diyaudio.com) is probably the wrong forum for discussions like this, because they are tedious and largely irrelevant to the main subject of this board.
Let's keep it on subject, and then perhaps our members of all political stripes can more fully enjoy the board, which, being about a happy diversionary activity, is even more valuable as the heavy geopolitical events of the day weigh in.
-- Mirlo
I won't trouble the others here with explanations of my skeptical opinions of various European leaders or the UN.
Rather, I want to suggest that this (diyaudio.com) is probably the wrong forum for discussions like this, because they are tedious and largely irrelevant to the main subject of this board.
Let's keep it on subject, and then perhaps our members of all political stripes can more fully enjoy the board, which, being about a happy diversionary activity, is even more valuable as the heavy geopolitical events of the day weigh in.
-- Mirlo
From today's Wall St. Journal
I am a Francophile, keenly aware of the debt of gratitude which Americans owe to Lafayette, aware too of the uses of philosophical contractualism, etc. Further, I am even married to a woman whose German pregenitors lost to Washington. (They gave up and founded Southeast Pennsylvania). Here are some of the comments in today's Wall Street Journal:
"the French, they're always there when they need us"
"the French, who never fired a shot in defense of their capital, Paris."
"the French, who scuttled their Navy and quickly ran into the arms of the Germans'
"the French, who rounded up Jews even without orders from their Nazi bosses"
I am a Francophile, keenly aware of the debt of gratitude which Americans owe to Lafayette, aware too of the uses of philosophical contractualism, etc. Further, I am even married to a woman whose German pregenitors lost to Washington. (They gave up and founded Southeast Pennsylvania). Here are some of the comments in today's Wall Street Journal:
"the French, they're always there when they need us"
"the French, who never fired a shot in defense of their capital, Paris."
"the French, who scuttled their Navy and quickly ran into the arms of the Germans'
"the French, who rounded up Jews even without orders from their Nazi bosses"
Here are my thoughts.
There is no doubt the US has much to gain from a disposal of Saddam. Maybe more than any other country except Iraq itself. I really doubt, though, that we are just going to claim 200 billion dollars worth of oil when we win. If anything we'll turn the oil fields over back over to the new democracy and work a deal where we buy the oil at a reasonable price. This will stabilize the US energy market, remove a major source of terrorist support and weapons, give the US a more significant strategic position in the region and will give the Iraqi people significant capital to rebuild and flourish.
I am just guessing here, but a vast majority of Iraqi civilian deaths in the war will be a direct result of Saddam Hussein ordering his military to hold them with guns to their heads at various military installations as "human shields" in an effort to demonize Americans for killing Iraqis. Could you imagine the US military trying this if the we came under attack? That is a major reason we encourage civilian gun ownership around here.
Saddam has now had 17 chances to clear his name. He's spit in our face every single time. How much more does it take?
jt
"They'd rather be alive than free, I guess. Poor dumb bastards"
There is no doubt the US has much to gain from a disposal of Saddam. Maybe more than any other country except Iraq itself. I really doubt, though, that we are just going to claim 200 billion dollars worth of oil when we win. If anything we'll turn the oil fields over back over to the new democracy and work a deal where we buy the oil at a reasonable price. This will stabilize the US energy market, remove a major source of terrorist support and weapons, give the US a more significant strategic position in the region and will give the Iraqi people significant capital to rebuild and flourish.
I am just guessing here, but a vast majority of Iraqi civilian deaths in the war will be a direct result of Saddam Hussein ordering his military to hold them with guns to their heads at various military installations as "human shields" in an effort to demonize Americans for killing Iraqis. Could you imagine the US military trying this if the we came under attack? That is a major reason we encourage civilian gun ownership around here.
Saddam has now had 17 chances to clear his name. He's spit in our face every single time. How much more does it take?
jt
"They'd rather be alive than free, I guess. Poor dumb bastards"
Ketchup aka catsup aka ketjap Dutch? In the sense that it was a creation of one of their oppressed colonies (Indonesia) using an ingredient (tomato) indigenous to the US. The British claim it as their own, but I note that traditionally, British ketchup had no tomato and was made from fermented mushrooms and walnuts (see, for example, Harold McGee's excellent book, "On Food and Cooking"). Those Brits have always been at the forefront of fine cuisine. And dentistry.
I think ketchup ruins good French Fries, myself. Really good Fries should be dressed with a bit of sea salt and no more. But I'm a purist in these matters. Mayo (however you spell it) is just an abomination. The Dutch sate sauce is an improvement, but still has no place on proper pommes frites.
I think ketchup ruins good French Fries, myself. Really good Fries should be dressed with a bit of sea salt and no more. But I'm a purist in these matters. Mayo (however you spell it) is just an abomination. The Dutch sate sauce is an improvement, but still has no place on proper pommes frites.
CATCHING UP.
Hi,
Hell yes,I drink my coffee black too.
Catchup,is a mixture of crushed tomato and sugar....I'll leave it to the Dutch to claim it's origins any further.
Same here,just looking at Americans eating their fries drown in cathup makes my stomach turn.
Mayonaise however + sea salt (you're right there) is a delight.
Then again not all mayo is the same is it?Neither are the fries for that matter...It will never cross my mind to order fish & fries whenever I'm the U.K. for example...Aaaargh...
Le chef,😉
Hi,
Hell yes,I drink my coffee black too.
Catchup,is a mixture of crushed tomato and sugar....I'll leave it to the Dutch to claim it's origins any further.
Same here,just looking at Americans eating their fries drown in cathup makes my stomach turn.
Mayonaise however + sea salt (you're right there) is a delight.
Then again not all mayo is the same is it?Neither are the fries for that matter...It will never cross my mind to order fish & fries whenever I'm the U.K. for example...Aaaargh...
Le chef,😉
Ketjap has little to do with ketchup. It is the indonesian word for soysauce. Ketchup is called ketchup overhere 😉
This is about all the wisdom I can come up with regarding the original thread subject, I fear...
saying bad things about other nations is no argumet. But it helps those to understand how much friendship with "worls leading nation" or "gods own country" is worth...
In this way it is good for main europe countrys, they come closer together this time. Wait what happens in Spain, where a goverment acts different from what the spain people want. EU can learn from this.
http://www.psoe.es/NuevasPoliticas-NuevosTiempos/Actualidad/punto_de_vista_030103.htm
people in germany learn right now:
http://www.heise.de/tp/english/kolumnen/hud/14047/1.html
btw. I´m pretty sure in a few years some people will recognize worlds leading nation somewhere in asia, not on the amerikan continent, but thats another story and no need to understand now.
where is more than propaganda, where are arguments and reasons for this, and this kind of war. You can´t bring peace with missiels and bombs, I dond´t belive the USA need that much military force againdt one Saddam - else USA should speak with the good friends from mossad, they know hoe to solve a problem like him cheaper. The reason must be an interest in war, not in bringinbg freedom and peace to near east.
This philantropical arguments, bringing money to 3rd world country, to develop them and make a strong ecopnomie etc etc - what did amerikan banks in argentina?
USA controles europes former (now "free") colonies with US money. If they don´t behave the way they should (mercosur) you quickly take away the money to punish them and say its they are evil, they don´t pay back credits?
evil, evil, now "old europe" is part of the evil world too?
"WE" are the problem?
http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Jan2003/t01232003_t0122sdfpc.html
This interest in war is not new, has nothing to do with 9-11.
It´s not clear why the last war in iraq was stopped a moment before marching in in bagdad - there must be a reason - someone in the USA needs a Saddam?
And this war is planned since about 5 years :
http://www.newamericancentury.org/iraqclintonletter.htm
I don´t belive oil is the main reason. Maybe oil was the reason in Afghanistan. Is it an US- innerpolitical reason?
In this way it is good for main europe countrys, they come closer together this time. Wait what happens in Spain, where a goverment acts different from what the spain people want. EU can learn from this.
http://www.psoe.es/NuevasPoliticas-NuevosTiempos/Actualidad/punto_de_vista_030103.htm
people in germany learn right now:
http://www.heise.de/tp/english/kolumnen/hud/14047/1.html
btw. I´m pretty sure in a few years some people will recognize worlds leading nation somewhere in asia, not on the amerikan continent, but thats another story and no need to understand now.
where is more than propaganda, where are arguments and reasons for this, and this kind of war. You can´t bring peace with missiels and bombs, I dond´t belive the USA need that much military force againdt one Saddam - else USA should speak with the good friends from mossad, they know hoe to solve a problem like him cheaper. The reason must be an interest in war, not in bringinbg freedom and peace to near east.
This philantropical arguments, bringing money to 3rd world country, to develop them and make a strong ecopnomie etc etc - what did amerikan banks in argentina?
USA controles europes former (now "free") colonies with US money. If they don´t behave the way they should (mercosur) you quickly take away the money to punish them and say its they are evil, they don´t pay back credits?
evil, evil, now "old europe" is part of the evil world too?
"WE" are the problem?
http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Jan2003/t01232003_t0122sdfpc.html
This interest in war is not new, has nothing to do with 9-11.
It´s not clear why the last war in iraq was stopped a moment before marching in in bagdad - there must be a reason - someone in the USA needs a Saddam?
And this war is planned since about 5 years :
http://www.newamericancentury.org/iraqclintonletter.htm
I don´t belive oil is the main reason. Maybe oil was the reason in Afghanistan. Is it an US- innerpolitical reason?
Careful, till, keep putting two and two together and you might bring down the wrath of the Illuminati and the Trilateral Commision. And maybe the Freemasons and the Elders of Zion. I'd hate to hear about your part of Germany suddenly vanishing off the face of the Earth.
Kokolores. I have nothing to deal with this stuff and i leave putting together what anyone wants to himshelf. Else i don´t represent or identify myshelf with any political direction. I only say nothing that is bad becomes something good only because someone says so. And killing people is bad. I don´t call this http://www.nata2.info/war/AC-130U_gunship_video_lo.wmv bringing freedom and peace.
Something more: I don´t know whats the translation to english, In the german version it is like: "Your words shoulf be Yes YES , No No."
Support Peace we can
arm every 30 miles diameter of the surface of the world with a nuclear bomb. Any nation began a war the whole earth blows up then we all can truly have Peace on Earth. Just another stupid idea
arm every 30 miles diameter of the surface of the world with a nuclear bomb. Any nation began a war the whole earth blows up then we all can truly have Peace on Earth. Just another stupid idea
Christer said:
For the record, I do not favor going into Iraq.
However:
Do not ever, ever, put the US in the same class as the former Soviet Union. Any perspective that seeks, under the guise of "even-handedness", to establish any equivalence between the two is intellectually bankrupt.
Would the world have been a better place if the US had left Europe to face Hitler and Tojo alone? What would the map of Europe look like today if the US had decided that Britain, France and the other European nations really were no better than Hitler?
Do not forget that in WWII, the European powers had huge colonial empires. Empires are built by force of arms. Now that we look back at it, it seems incredible that anyone could come onto a foreign shore and "declare" the country-a country full of people with a an ongoing language, culture, and way of life-the property of another country thousands of miles away.
What if the US had just decided that there is little to choose between Hitler and the rest of the European nations that were looting the land and labor of Africa and Asia? Might I hear any objection from our European friends?
Yes, we looted the labor of Africa too-but the Emancipation Proclamation was in 1865. Yes, we were one of those colonies built upon stolen lands from Native Americans-but that happened back in the 1700s and 1800s. This was the 1930's-and most of the globe was still carved up between European nations.
Would any of European posters care to explain why a disinterested observer, in the 1930's, should not apply a doctirne of "equivalence" between Nazi Germany and the "free" European nations who were forcing the people of Asia and Africa to surrender their national sovereignty and to donate their land and labor to them?
peace to you
Kelticwizard,
In one of my earlier post I proposed evenhandedness related to nuclear, biological and chemical weapons of mass destruction. I still feel that the same reasons we use to disarm Saddam ("you never know what he does in the future") would also be valid to demand disarming the US of its WMD's. Since we cannot "dis-invent" these weapons, turning them over to the UN is an old if slightly naive, idea.
That said, I want to clearly state that I don't want to equate the US to Iraq or, for that matter, the Third Reich or the Soviet Union. The values and norms of civilised behaviour practised in the US appeal to me much more than those of the other nations, thank you very much. And I shudder to think that the US would have left us to Hitler.
But then again, friends must be able to tell each other that they think they are on a wrong path. Thankfullness doesn't mean you have to agree with everything. And right now many friends of the US, me included, don't agree with the (expected) action. Being friends means to be honest in your opinion, but also taking the other guy's opinion seriously.
Jan Didden
Kelticwizard,
In one of my earlier post I proposed evenhandedness related to nuclear, biological and chemical weapons of mass destruction. I still feel that the same reasons we use to disarm Saddam ("you never know what he does in the future") would also be valid to demand disarming the US of its WMD's. Since we cannot "dis-invent" these weapons, turning them over to the UN is an old if slightly naive, idea.
That said, I want to clearly state that I don't want to equate the US to Iraq or, for that matter, the Third Reich or the Soviet Union. The values and norms of civilised behaviour practised in the US appeal to me much more than those of the other nations, thank you very much. And I shudder to think that the US would have left us to Hitler.
But then again, friends must be able to tell each other that they think they are on a wrong path. Thankfullness doesn't mean you have to agree with everything. And right now many friends of the US, me included, don't agree with the (expected) action. Being friends means to be honest in your opinion, but also taking the other guy's opinion seriously.
Jan Didden
the intercepted phone calls
well, there you have it, Colin Powell does his schtick as Dean Rusk and puts the smoking gun back in the holster. If it wasn't played live in the ROW, it's probably archived on many US radio stations.
clear evidence of Iraqi support of Al Queda operations in EUROPE.
hey, maybe the French have decided that the language they wrote defining "material breach" isn't a material breach. After all, they have recently decided that the charter of the European Central Bank doesn't apply to them either.
well, there you have it, Colin Powell does his schtick as Dean Rusk and puts the smoking gun back in the holster. If it wasn't played live in the ROW, it's probably archived on many US radio stations.
clear evidence of Iraqi support of Al Queda operations in EUROPE.
hey, maybe the French have decided that the language they wrote defining "material breach" isn't a material breach. After all, they have recently decided that the charter of the European Central Bank doesn't apply to them either.
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