You also would need to match the two reference diodes. It's the reference scaled by the two feedback resistors that set the output.
It's not easy to get matched references, so you may end up tweaking one of the resistors in one reg to match the output voltages.
Not sure why you want to match output voltages though; can't think of a good reason for that.
Jan
It's not easy to get matched references, so you may end up tweaking one of the resistors in one reg to match the output voltages.
Not sure why you want to match output voltages though; can't think of a good reason for that.
Jan
(topical DIODE question follows, but first I'll mention....)
I have not asked many questions because most of them are in this thread and/or in the required reading (articles linked on post #1).
Most people are aware, but , instead of the forum Search Bar, I find it faster and more accurate to search this thread using Google's refined web search from a separate/fresh Google browser tab.
Example, when I want to get the exact results, and must these two words: "7.5v" and "zener" -- I type them within quotation marks, followed by site:https://www............... (see below)
So, in the the Google search bar, it reads exactly:
If I use the dedicated forum Search Box (w/This thread), it only gives one result. (with more typing needed).
Anyways, what I was not able to find.... and it's a simple question....
EDIT, I found the answer in the reading literature.
(I almost had to eat my words ! )
I have not asked many questions because most of them are in this thread and/or in the required reading (articles linked on post #1).
Most people are aware, but , instead of the forum Search Bar, I find it faster and more accurate to search this thread using Google's refined web search from a separate/fresh Google browser tab.
Example, when I want to get the exact results, and must these two words: "7.5v" and "zener" -- I type them within quotation marks, followed by site:https://www............... (see below)
So, in the the Google search bar, it reads exactly:
I get two results using the above method. (with less typing).
If I use the dedicated forum Search Box (w/This thread), it only gives one result. (with more typing needed).
Anyways, what I was not able to find.... and it's a simple question....
EDIT, I found the answer in the reading literature.
(I almost had to eat my words ! )
I have assembled a positive and negative super reg, both, the led's light. I am starting with issues on the negative reg. I have adjusted for 18V output, R14 1k and R13 698R. I replaced D7 with a 10V Zener and replaced D10 with a 10V reference, LM4040-10. I have placed jumpers from the sense lines to the load lines at the output terminal and have a 500R resistor loading the reg for 36mA output. The output is well regulated at 18VDC, however it reads 24mVAC on the output with the load, not super. BTW, I am providing 25V into the reg with a Rigol P832 bench power supply. I did take a look at the output with a scope and the picture is below. I used an OPA 828 for U1 and U2, I had them on hand.
Rick, a few questions: how did ypou measure the 24mVAC, between which two points? Was it with a multimeter not connected to any mains or a mains-fed voltmeter?
Same Q with the scope - between which two points?
Also please scope the input in scope ac setting, between the two input points.
Jan
Same Q with the scope - between which two points?
Also please scope the input in scope ac setting, between the two input points.
Jan
Holy cow, never realized the bench meter would be less accurate. I remeasured with a Fluke 87III handheld and it reads 1.50mVAC . I measured across the output terminals. The scope is connected across the 500R load resistor, you can see the scope leads in the upper left of the picture of the board. I did take a look at the input with the scope, it looks identical but inverted. Looks like I need to recheck with an actual linear supply huh?
Not necessarily. If you measured with the bench at a different ground point, all bets are off. You might be measuring a ground-current induced noise.
That's why I said measure across the load directly, that is what the regulator, ehh, regulates ;-)
If you connect the sense lines directly to the load and measure at those points, you should effectively measure zero on the DMM.
As far as the scope is concerned, try to run it with its mains earth disconnected, temporarily of course.
Then measure across the load with a very short probe ground lead, dressed along the probe as far as possible.
There's much more to high performance regulators than just slapping a circuit together!
Jan
That's why I said measure across the load directly, that is what the regulator, ehh, regulates ;-)
If you connect the sense lines directly to the load and measure at those points, you should effectively measure zero on the DMM.
As far as the scope is concerned, try to run it with its mains earth disconnected, temporarily of course.
Then measure across the load with a very short probe ground lead, dressed along the probe as far as possible.
There's much more to high performance regulators than just slapping a circuit together!
Jan
Ok, found the basis here:Question - what are people using as rectifier and CRC,CLC prior to this reg? I'm looking to build a 5v (based on LM4040) and also a 9v.
Also, any mouser/digikey pre-completed BOM would still be welcome
Thanks
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/super-regulator.247281/post-6668206
Or this: https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/super-regulator.247281/post-6953315
Or just buy a cheap rectifier / pre-reg?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/29442414...uid=_FZM4tpQRRy&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY
Is it better to feed the Superreg smoothed unregulated power, or via a pre-regulator?
Hello,
Quick 2 questions.
1. I was building super regulators from diy audio boards (2.3b) for +- 15 and 5v and was planning to use Panasonic Fr capacitors (100uF 50V) with low ESR (0.06 ), but somewhere in the thread saw, that output capacitor (C4 C8), should be higher ESR as super regulator "likes" that. What would happen if still use this kind of capacitor. If its better to use higher ESR capacitor, should I use only in output, or everywhere else?
2. For building 5V I have ad817, lm4040 2.5V. As I understand I should also use 2.5v zener diodes?
Sorry if questions might sound stupid, I am just dipping my toes in diy electronics.
Quick 2 questions.
1. I was building super regulators from diy audio boards (2.3b) for +- 15 and 5v and was planning to use Panasonic Fr capacitors (100uF 50V) with low ESR (0.06 ), but somewhere in the thread saw, that output capacitor (C4 C8), should be higher ESR as super regulator "likes" that. What would happen if still use this kind of capacitor. If its better to use higher ESR capacitor, should I use only in output, or everywhere else?
2. For building 5V I have ad817, lm4040 2.5V. As I understand I should also use 2.5v zener diodes?
Sorry if questions might sound stupid, I am just dipping my toes in diy electronics.
Hi Acid ,quick 2 answers
1.for all capacitors, the best choice is Nichicon UKZ and UFG or Panasonic FC
2.for the 5V version, a much better op.amp than the AD817 is the ADA4897 , better reference than LM4040 is ADR525 or even better GLED431
Thank You for quick reply.
1. I have tried quite a lot of capacitors in various electronics from dacs, amplifiers, usb-spdif converters to audio-pc clock power supplies. I have found that almost all Nichicon caps sound not so good for my taste. In some places bipolar muse are ok, in power supply (Gold tune) UKG are also good. My current preference are Panasonic FR and Elna Cerafine (have put quite a lot of KZ in my mark levinson 390 dac, now all changed to panasonic FR or elna cerafine). Panasonic FC are quite good. They dont add or take away anything. Might try FC in the regulator.
2. I am from Europe and I cant find ada 4897, adr 525 or ZTX951 for gled431 here. Maybe some of that can be find in china, but you can never be sure what you get from them.
Maybe there are any other alternatives to your suggested parts? (I would really like to get gled431 though for a try, as it seems it is the best 5v you can get and I plan to use it for a dac chip).
1. why UKZ ? If you don't like UKZ (which in my opinion is completely wrong), try to find capacitors with as little leakage current as possible. Low ESR usually do not have small leakage currents. In my tests, UKZ proved to be the best among these regulators.Thank You for quick reply.
1. I have tried quite a lot of capacitors in various electronics from dacs, amplifiers, usb-spdif converters to audio-pc clock power supplies. I have found that almost all Nichicon caps sound not so good for my taste. In some places bipolar muse are ok, in power supply (Gold tune) UKG are also good. My current preference are Panasonic FR and Elna Cerafine (have put quite a lot of KZ in my mark levinson 390 dac, now all changed to panasonic FR or elna cerafine). Panasonic FC are quite good. They dont add or take away anything. Might try FC in the regulator.
2. I am from Europe and I cant find ada 4897, adr 525 or ZTX951 for gled431 here. Maybe some of that can be find in china, but you can never be sure what you get from them.
2. As for parts in the EU, there is Mouser, I think the ZTX951 is currently unavailable, but there is an alternative for another 2.5V reference with easily accessible parts
I will try to get ztx951 on ebay or somewhere else as I need to build best possible 5v regulator. Might try build from your link reference for 6.9V also to have best 15V.
I will read into your posted links, Thank You again.
KZ in my Mark Levinson 390 Dac digital board power shunts places gave recessed scene and artificial and mellowed high frequencies. Maybe they give different sound in super regulator. I have a bunch of them lying around after capacitor change, might give them another chance. Still I would be glad to hear Mr Jan.Didden thoughts on using Panasonic FR in super regulator.
FR have very low leakage, I think in the range of 10nA or less
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I don't know where you got this data for FR, the DS states 0.01CV, the same as UKZ or FC. There are also Low Leakage Current series TWL from Rubycon or UKL from Nichicon which are declared at 0.002CV , but I have not yet tested them in an audio environment due to other parameters.
The most important are C3,7,9 and C10 and they must be of the highest quality, low ESR is not important in this case like some other parameters that are important in audio. Just compare the dimensions of UKZ or UFG and FR of the same voltage and capacity, that says it all.
I did the leakage current test according to Walt's article and there were really some surprises among the 30 or so I tried. A positive surprise, along with UKZ, UFG, FC, was the Rubycon ZLJ series, but with a slightly larger V.
Oh right, I did wrong calculations for the leakage. I managed to get a lot 220uF 63V Panasonic FC and only some 100uF 35V FC (not enough for 4 boards, so I am thinking of using 220uF everythere), as I understand 220uF should not be too big in all capacitor places. For those most critical places you mentioned I will later try UKZ as I have some used 100uf 25V.
Confession: I am not an EE, and I my math SAT score kept me out of Harvard. I am a lawyer, not a doctor.
Still, I am either fearless or foolish and I am learning the language of electronics for the first time to build the pre-amps and power supplies and amps etc of my dreams. I need some help with translation and finding alternative parts for things I can’t seem to find on Digikey or Mauser. I am banking on that my fumbling around will bring you all back 20 or 30 years to your memories of getting started enough that you will have patience with me. Also: I am old enough that my kids are leaving home and have some extra time. If there is a good key somewhere for these terms that doesnt require me to take a couple years worth of PHD work in EE, I would love to read it.
From the Super-regulator BOM:
I. Ics
The spot on the schematic is U1-U2. I understand that much.
Category: Ics What does this mean?
Values: AD825 or AD817 I'm having trouble finding these available. Recommended alternative?
Description: DIL-08 or SOIC what does this mean?
II. Diodes
For the Diodes, I spent an hour or so looking for the parts on the two ordinary vendors, but I am not sure I was able to understand the terminology well enough to search for them properly.
I understand the locations they will go. D1-D10.
D1,D6 The 2 LEDs
Value = LED. ß I know what that is, and I understand the pitch spec. The general statement of LED isn’t much to discriminate between the many available ones, so I am not sure what to choose from, or how to find them in vendor search tools. You probably all have regular sources for these, but again, I am just not there yet. Any word here?
D2,D7
Value: Z6.8 This value isn’t enough for me to find anything in the searches. What does this mean?
Description: 0.25W if I can find some Z6.8s, I am guessing I know what this means.
D3-D4, D8-D9
Value: 1N4148 Ok. This was enough to find several examples. But there are, of course a variety of spec choices, and I don’t know enough yet to tell if the differences will matter, or why.
Here are a few choices, for example:
Onsemi --- General purpose, 100V, 200MA, DO35
SMC Solutions -- General purpose, 75V, 300MA, DO35
NTE electronics -- General purpose, 75V, 150MA, DO35
OK. What are you guys thinking about when you see these voltage and amp differences. Do they matter for a diode need in our use here? If not, why?
And what does the DO35 mean?
Any quality opinions on the manufacturers that I ought to put in the back of my head?
D5, D10
Value: LM329
Description: T0-92
Ok. This was a doozy. There are several different types of components that come up when you search this value.
First, I found a bunch of things that look like transistors to me, not diodes. Like this: https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/analog-devices-inc/LM329CZ-PBF/962323
Happy to order them, but again, they appear to be transistors and so I hesitate. If these ARE the right things, how do you guys distinguish between them and know that they will work in this board need?
There are CZ and AZ options. I have no understanding of the differences or if they are important for the voodoo.
Then, there are some “RF modulators”. I am assuming – from the RF label -- these have nothing to do with us. Is that right?
Some other components came up as well.
IV. MISC
Heatsinks: I don’t see the heatsinks needed for the superregulator identified in the BOM.
Am I reading it wrong? Suggestions?
Terminal Blocks
J1,J5
Values: TBLOCK-I2
Desc: 2-pin screw terminal 0.2” pitch
J1,J6
Values: TBLOCK-I4
Desc: 4-pin screw terminal 0.2” pitch
I am sure that most of you know what this all means immediately, but imagine you are me for a second, If you search for these values in Digikey, nothing appears. So I look at the terminal blocks in general, try to use the description to shun the ones that won’t fit, etc. Several options appear. For the uninitiated, it is impossible to tell if they will work, and more importantly, WHY.
For example, the search wizard characteristics include:
Current, voltage, orientation, Mounting type, Wire termination.
I can stab at it, but I know I will screw this up.
My questions: How do you guys tell the differences?
Are there better ways to find the 2 and 4 pin blocks that are spec’d on the BOM? Search terms?
Thought bubble: “MAN THIS GUY IS REALLY AN IDIOT”
Yeah, pretty much.
OK that is all the questions I have for now. Any patience with me is much appreciated as I try to learn your peculiar language.
Bonesthrower - Gary
Lincoln, Nebraska
Still, I am either fearless or foolish and I am learning the language of electronics for the first time to build the pre-amps and power supplies and amps etc of my dreams. I need some help with translation and finding alternative parts for things I can’t seem to find on Digikey or Mauser. I am banking on that my fumbling around will bring you all back 20 or 30 years to your memories of getting started enough that you will have patience with me. Also: I am old enough that my kids are leaving home and have some extra time. If there is a good key somewhere for these terms that doesnt require me to take a couple years worth of PHD work in EE, I would love to read it.
From the Super-regulator BOM:
I. Ics
The spot on the schematic is U1-U2. I understand that much.
Category: Ics What does this mean?
Values: AD825 or AD817 I'm having trouble finding these available. Recommended alternative?
Description: DIL-08 or SOIC what does this mean?
II. Diodes
For the Diodes, I spent an hour or so looking for the parts on the two ordinary vendors, but I am not sure I was able to understand the terminology well enough to search for them properly.
I understand the locations they will go. D1-D10.
D1,D6 The 2 LEDs
Value = LED. ß I know what that is, and I understand the pitch spec. The general statement of LED isn’t much to discriminate between the many available ones, so I am not sure what to choose from, or how to find them in vendor search tools. You probably all have regular sources for these, but again, I am just not there yet. Any word here?
D2,D7
Value: Z6.8 This value isn’t enough for me to find anything in the searches. What does this mean?
Description: 0.25W if I can find some Z6.8s, I am guessing I know what this means.
D3-D4, D8-D9
Value: 1N4148 Ok. This was enough to find several examples. But there are, of course a variety of spec choices, and I don’t know enough yet to tell if the differences will matter, or why.
Here are a few choices, for example:
Onsemi --- General purpose, 100V, 200MA, DO35
SMC Solutions -- General purpose, 75V, 300MA, DO35
NTE electronics -- General purpose, 75V, 150MA, DO35
OK. What are you guys thinking about when you see these voltage and amp differences. Do they matter for a diode need in our use here? If not, why?
And what does the DO35 mean?
Any quality opinions on the manufacturers that I ought to put in the back of my head?
D5, D10
Value: LM329
Description: T0-92
Ok. This was a doozy. There are several different types of components that come up when you search this value.
First, I found a bunch of things that look like transistors to me, not diodes. Like this: https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/analog-devices-inc/LM329CZ-PBF/962323
Happy to order them, but again, they appear to be transistors and so I hesitate. If these ARE the right things, how do you guys distinguish between them and know that they will work in this board need?
There are CZ and AZ options. I have no understanding of the differences or if they are important for the voodoo.
Then, there are some “RF modulators”. I am assuming – from the RF label -- these have nothing to do with us. Is that right?
Some other components came up as well.
IV. MISC
Heatsinks: I don’t see the heatsinks needed for the superregulator identified in the BOM.
Am I reading it wrong? Suggestions?
Terminal Blocks
J1,J5
Values: TBLOCK-I2
Desc: 2-pin screw terminal 0.2” pitch
J1,J6
Values: TBLOCK-I4
Desc: 4-pin screw terminal 0.2” pitch
I am sure that most of you know what this all means immediately, but imagine you are me for a second, If you search for these values in Digikey, nothing appears. So I look at the terminal blocks in general, try to use the description to shun the ones that won’t fit, etc. Several options appear. For the uninitiated, it is impossible to tell if they will work, and more importantly, WHY.
For example, the search wizard characteristics include:
Current, voltage, orientation, Mounting type, Wire termination.
I can stab at it, but I know I will screw this up.
My questions: How do you guys tell the differences?
Are there better ways to find the 2 and 4 pin blocks that are spec’d on the BOM? Search terms?
Thought bubble: “MAN THIS GUY IS REALLY AN IDIOT”
Yeah, pretty much.
OK that is all the questions I have for now. Any patience with me is much appreciated as I try to learn your peculiar language.
Bonesthrower - Gary
Lincoln, Nebraska