There are three big companies in Korea that own everything under the sun... LG, Samsung, and another company called ST (I think...). These guys do everything, including apartment buildings and gas stations, LG-Mart at the corner, insurance, you name it, one of these companies does it!
Incidentally, I don't like LG electronics much. I had an LG cell phone that was a piece of junk, and I wouldn't buy an LG DVD player either. Samsung is a different story though. You may not know it, but I believe Sony's bottom-end DVD players are OEM'd by Samsung...
Incidentally, I don't like LG electronics much. I had an LG cell phone that was a piece of junk, and I wouldn't buy an LG DVD player either. Samsung is a different story though. You may not know it, but I believe Sony's bottom-end DVD players are OEM'd by Samsung...
hifiZen said:
it wouldn't surprise me from the OEM point of view: some of those "super cheap" DVD players are also sold as branded dvd players as well.
What does surprise me that Sony sourcing from Samsung. Samsung is widely viewed as Sony of tomorrow: a company with competent engineering capabilities but superb marketing and branding power. But then Sony is buying Samsung panels for its HDTV so I shouldn't be surprised, 🙂.
Hi HiFiZen;
>>>...You may not know it, but I believe Sony's bottom-end DVD players are OEM'd by Samsung...<<<
I can't yea or nay-say that, but it wouldn't surprise me in the least. Bottom end CD and DVD players are notorious for being badged in big name companies (and there are a couple of Samsung parts in my older Sony DVD player that imply an establihed corporate relationship).
Segue to the topic of changing nationalities of production, I've now seen my first non-Japanese built Panasonic audio equipment in a Japanese store (it was a small amp/speaker module that docked to a minidisc player - the MD player was indeed 'made in Japan' though).
Ja mata,
Morse
>>>...You may not know it, but I believe Sony's bottom-end DVD players are OEM'd by Samsung...<<<
I can't yea or nay-say that, but it wouldn't surprise me in the least. Bottom end CD and DVD players are notorious for being badged in big name companies (and there are a couple of Samsung parts in my older Sony DVD player that imply an establihed corporate relationship).
Segue to the topic of changing nationalities of production, I've now seen my first non-Japanese built Panasonic audio equipment in a Japanese store (it was a small amp/speaker module that docked to a minidisc player - the MD player was indeed 'made in Japan' though).
Ja mata,
Morse
As you all note, the cheaper things are often outsourced for
production in countries with lower production costs. Sometimes
one gets a surprise, though. Five or six years ago I bought
my first CD-burner, an Acer which was one of the cheapest at the
time but which got very good reviews. I hadn't even heard
about Acer, but it is obviously Taiwanese. Well it good good
reviews and it turned out to be very well built mechanically,
much much better than any other ones I have seen. I later
found out that that particular cheap model was manufactured by
Philips for Acer!!!! None of the other Acers that followed
seemed anywhere near this one in build quality even though
many of them were much more expensive.
To anticipate the obvious remark, yes, it may be that Philips
outsourced the manufacturing to Asia, but it is still interesting
how companies buy things from each other in strange ways.
production in countries with lower production costs. Sometimes
one gets a surprise, though. Five or six years ago I bought
my first CD-burner, an Acer which was one of the cheapest at the
time but which got very good reviews. I hadn't even heard
about Acer, but it is obviously Taiwanese. Well it good good
reviews and it turned out to be very well built mechanically,
much much better than any other ones I have seen. I later
found out that that particular cheap model was manufactured by
Philips for Acer!!!! None of the other Acers that followed
seemed anywhere near this one in build quality even though
many of them were much more expensive.
To anticipate the obvious remark, yes, it may be that Philips
outsourced the manufacturing to Asia, but it is still interesting
how companies buy things from each other in strange ways.
Hi,
Not all that strange really, a closer look at Philips as a group or Siemens for instance will make you see that there few brandnames that are NOT related to a major player.
For a few years already we have this commercial for Calgonit running, a product you add to water to soften it's Ph when you wash dishes.
Ah, it must be good because it's supported according to the commercial by Siemens, Baucknecht, Bosh etc...
Bottomline is, all of the above companies belong to the Siemens group of companies...
Now take Vishay, they incorporate product by Wellwyn, Roederstein and no doubt a raft of others...
And the list goes on and on...
Cheers,😉
Not all that strange really, a closer look at Philips as a group or Siemens for instance will make you see that there few brandnames that are NOT related to a major player.
For a few years already we have this commercial for Calgonit running, a product you add to water to soften it's Ph when you wash dishes.
Ah, it must be good because it's supported according to the commercial by Siemens, Baucknecht, Bosh etc...
Bottomline is, all of the above companies belong to the Siemens group of companies...
Now take Vishay, they incorporate product by Wellwyn, Roederstein and no doubt a raft of others...
And the list goes on and on...
Cheers,😉
Christer said:
Yeah, PC goodies in particular seem to have a lot of cross-branding going on. I have an LG GMA-4020B DVD-writer, but it was designed by Hitachi, and is quite a good product. Likewise, my el-cheapo CenDyne DVD-reader is also a rebadged Hitachi drive, and again, quite a good unit. I think with really new technologies like this, where they're pushing the envelope, only a few companies have the R&D background to field a good product. The others often start with rebadged units just to have something on the market (and hopefully it'll get good reviews to support future sales); then gradually as they learn from the leaders, they'll start to make their own. I've found it really worthwhile to do a little research before buying computer add-ons.
Unfortunately, this doesn't apply to cheap-o DVD players. The fundamental technology has already 'trickled down' to chip makers who can substantially undercut the more expensive and elaborate chipsets offered by the R&D leaders.
Just to give a little further insight into the differences betwen more expensive DVD chipsets and cheap ones, the ZiVA-5 series chips I worked with had a very fast 32-bit processor core, running at around 150MHz. One company added video game functionality to a DVD player using our chip - they had Doom running right on the core processor! In contrast, the bottom-end chips use something akin to the 8051 microcontroller. The difference is what can be accomplished in terms of graphic overlays, more sophisticated functions, and flexibility of software customization so that companies can have the exact look-and-feel that they want. This really affects the GUI behaviour, but more sophisticated hardware also has an impact during playback, when various techniques are used to perform image enhancement (eg, removal of visible compression artifacts, noise reduction, etc), scaling for anamorphic/letterbox content, and progressive-scan conversion. In the case of DVD, bits are not just bits. There is a lot of processing that goes on before the final image is displayed on your screen, and quality of the video algorithms can play a huge role in how good the result looks. This is one area that C-Cube had, and still has (as LSI) a big advantage over most other companies. C-Cube developed some of the first MPEG video encoder and decoder hardware, actually winning an Emmy award for their contribution to the movie industry. Their R&D backgroud is almost unmatched. I am looking forward to the coming DVD-recordable products containing LSI's DMN-86xx series chips. I did a fair bit of work with these chips, and they have some remarkable capabilities... real-time MPEG video encode (at very high quality, I might add), format to format transcoding (DV, MPEG2, H.264...), simultaneous playback while recording from another video source, and best of all, really good progressive scan deinterlacing. I think one of the first to use true motion compensation (LSI patented, as I recall), whereas everything out there to date has just been motion adaptive, which isn't in the same league as motion compensation. I've seen the demos first hand, and wow is all I can say. Of course, you need a progressive scan display to take advantage of it...
hifiZen said:
do they use that 8051-like microcontoller for mpeg2 decoding or for control purposes? Being an ex-MCS (that last I programmed is 8096) series embedded chip programmer myself, I could get stack overflow on those guys by pressing and holding a key. I would have never imagined that they could do even 1% of mpeg decoding.
But they might have made some super 8051 since then.
No, no of course not. MPEG decode is a dedicated hardware block! This is only for control functions, and in ZiVA-5 case, some audio DSP stuff, or web browser etc.
millwood said:
millwood, you didn't read this thread from the begining, did you?
Guys, I've read that LG story on a newspaper some years ago and I thought it was true.
If it isn't sorry.
IMHO this thread seems to have gone as far as it can.
Everybody will have their opinions about ultra cheap electronic components like DVD players and that will depend a lot on what you want them for.
Despite my experiences with the one that I purchased (and subsequently returned) it would have been an interesting exercise to tweak it and see what sort of performance could have been achieved. Yes, I know the build quality was awful but at the price, there was not much to lose if something went badly wrong during the tweaking. Not everybody has the bottle to start butchering a 200$ piece of equipment when it is still under guarantee!
Likewise, we will (or should) have our own views on the global econonomy, sweatshops and other matters related to this issue but not necessarily concerned with DIY hi-fi.
We have had some excellent insights into the design and production of CD/DVD players but now it seems as though the thread is degenerating into a personal slanging match that will probably end up being stopped by the moderators. Bettere to end it as friends I say.
Anyway Carlos (OT), all I can say to you is why haven't you told me about Mariza (Fado Curvo) before? 😉
Everybody will have their opinions about ultra cheap electronic components like DVD players and that will depend a lot on what you want them for.
Despite my experiences with the one that I purchased (and subsequently returned) it would have been an interesting exercise to tweak it and see what sort of performance could have been achieved. Yes, I know the build quality was awful but at the price, there was not much to lose if something went badly wrong during the tweaking. Not everybody has the bottle to start butchering a 200$ piece of equipment when it is still under guarantee!
Likewise, we will (or should) have our own views on the global econonomy, sweatshops and other matters related to this issue but not necessarily concerned with DIY hi-fi.
We have had some excellent insights into the design and production of CD/DVD players but now it seems as though the thread is degenerating into a personal slanging match that will probably end up being stopped by the moderators. Bettere to end it as friends I say.
Anyway Carlos (OT), all I can say to you is why haven't you told me about Mariza (Fado Curvo) before? 😉
Someone Elses Trash Is .................
"This is one area that C-Cube had, and still has (as LSI) a big advantage over most other companies. C-Cube developed some of the first MPEG video encoder and decoder hardware, actually winning an Emmy award for their contribution to the movie industry. Their R&D backgroud is almost unmatched."
...... So the AUS$5.00 that I spent yesterday at the local recycling center for a Diamond DVD-201D using a C-Cube decoder was money well spent !!!! - 5 minutes to get the lid off, reseat a dodgy ribbon cable, refit the lid and it now flies.
This machine has stereo only output using a CS4334K DAC mounted on the output terminal board.
Right now the audio output is nothing to write home about, but some electro changes and close look at earthing arrangements will likely help - I might even change caps in the SMPS module, but that would double the cost of this thing !!!.
Eric / - Always knows a bargain.........
"This is one area that C-Cube had, and still has (as LSI) a big advantage over most other companies. C-Cube developed some of the first MPEG video encoder and decoder hardware, actually winning an Emmy award for their contribution to the movie industry. Their R&D backgroud is almost unmatched."
...... So the AUS$5.00 that I spent yesterday at the local recycling center for a Diamond DVD-201D using a C-Cube decoder was money well spent !!!! - 5 minutes to get the lid off, reseat a dodgy ribbon cable, refit the lid and it now flies.
This machine has stereo only output using a CS4334K DAC mounted on the output terminal board.
Right now the audio output is nothing to write home about, but some electro changes and close look at earthing arrangements will likely help - I might even change caps in the SMPS module, but that would double the cost of this thing !!!.
Eric / - Always knows a bargain.........
Nuuk said:
I though you knew.😀
Excellent.
And you may want to hear the last one from Dulce Pontes.😉
Sorry but I don't see your point. No quarrels and HifiZen still telling interesting things about the subject. So why should we quit ?
carlosfm said:
yes, I have.
The point is that price shouldn't be the yard stick in determining which dvd is good and which isn't. My Denon, which is probably more expensive and considered better than a lot of the dvd players out there, sucked in pretty every aspect of it. My Panasonic, an al-cheapo player, is the best I have seen so far.
I work in an industry where anything is bad at a price and anything is good at a price too. and I know how foolish it is to judge product quality by the size of their price tags.
millwood said:
Of course.😎
I recommended people to buy the Panasonic S35 DVD-A/V.
That's a good basis to tweak.
And it costs around 120 Euros here.
My advice was to spend just a little more money and buy one of these.
I know a guy that says: "I don't have money to buy cheap".
I learned to understand him.😉
carlosfm said:
so 120 Euro is the cut-off point? my panasonic then didn't make it. and it delivers fabulous pictures driving my PDP panel, 🙂
maybe I should just mail panasonic another $60 to make your cut-off price. Do you think they will take it?
🙂
Millwood,
be aware that US prices are sometimes 50% of the European prices for the same product.
I paid Euro 129 for this Panasonic, which is really great out of the box (I choose it for best sound in the cheap DVD class division).
I recall Dorkus having paid us$70 for it
It's not fair
I do agree that price doesn't say a lot about the quality.😎
be aware that US prices are sometimes 50% of the European prices for the same product.
I paid Euro 129 for this Panasonic, which is really great out of the box (I choose it for best sound in the cheap DVD class division).
I recall Dorkus having paid us$70 for it
It's not fair I do agree that price doesn't say a lot about the quality.😎
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