hifiZen,
Thank you for the tip on listening to the DVD mechanism. I hear exactly the same sounds listening to DVD-Audio as to a DVD-Movie, so I guess I can assume that is reading in bursts and buffering.
I think you have probably saved me several hundred hours of no doubt interesting, but possibly unproductive DIY time. I am definately going to abandon my upsampling CD player design. I really didn't want to be an expert on VisualDSP any way. I am going to spend some time on upgrading my DVD player and upsample on the PC my worth listening to CDs to DVD Audio.
I am guessing you will be able to confirm the next item. I figure that DVD-Audio has more robust error correction than CD-Audio. Is this true?
Thank you in advance,
Alvaius
Thank you for the tip on listening to the DVD mechanism. I hear exactly the same sounds listening to DVD-Audio as to a DVD-Movie, so I guess I can assume that is reading in bursts and buffering.
I think you have probably saved me several hundred hours of no doubt interesting, but possibly unproductive DIY time. I am definately going to abandon my upsampling CD player design. I really didn't want to be an expert on VisualDSP any way. I am going to spend some time on upgrading my DVD player and upsample on the PC my worth listening to CDs to DVD Audio.
I am guessing you will be able to confirm the next item. I figure that DVD-Audio has more robust error correction than CD-Audio. Is this true?
Thank you in advance,
Alvaius
Hi,
I must say the analogy with how modern hard discs and CPUs work is striking...
Where the HDD is still magnetic, it may well turn into an optical reading/writing system soon...
Cacheing data is already used it seems, read ahead and buffer too....
Interesting really,
I must say the analogy with how modern hard discs and CPUs work is striking...
Where the HDD is still magnetic, it may well turn into an optical reading/writing system soon...
Cacheing data is already used it seems, read ahead and buffer too....
Interesting really,
fdegrove said:
I guess even CD players would have been doing this since
long if they hadn't choosen a data format that makes it
almost impossible to resynch the data if reading non continuously.
I am not so sure computer hard disks will turn optical though.
There has been such attempts, but AFAIK there are a number
of problems with all optical systems so far. I suppose transfer
rates might be sufficient, but seek times won't. On a magnetic
disc you can very quickly and accurately find the right track
since tracks are concentric not spiral (OK, I admit I don't know
for sure if DVD and SACD use spiral tracks, but I suppose so).
Probably magnetic hard discs will continue to get bigger and
bigger for yet some time and then the future will probably
be in various new types of memories not based on discs or
any other moving parts.
alvaius said:
if the blue led did help (that's a big if, given the DOF and spectrum difference), it would force the automatic gain control mechanism to lower the power on the laser diode because the agc now sees "more" light on the photodiode.
In essence, if the blue led worked, it would have hurt the reading of the disc.
A wild (silly?) guess.
Is it possible that the blue LED raises the background light level and drowns out the "white" background noise resulting in less error contribution from the "white noise" background ? Thus resulting in a more accurate 'signal'.
Cheers,
Ashok.
Is it possible that the blue LED raises the background light level and drowns out the "white" background noise resulting in less error contribution from the "white noise" background ? Thus resulting in a more accurate 'signal'.
Cheers,
Ashok.
If our DVD player is playing an MP3 disc and it jumps, then presumably it =can= get back into sync! What's more, I expect the error correction would actually correct real errors completely, not just smooth them over. What would be good is of we could record an uncompressed wave file or similar and have it played back with all of the usual error correction benefits that CDDA lacks.hifiZen said:
Well I will be buying a new DVD-Burner on my way home this evening and GEAR software to do the DVD-Audio burning. I will tell you how things go....
Alvaius
Alvaius
Circlotron said:
mp3 files are recorded on cd-rom disks, not in audio cd format. So there are proper block information there, and jitter as it occurs in the read-back process is foundamentally impossible in playing back a mp3 sound. the same holds true for dvds.
audio CDs, unlike CD-ROms, have zero block information for the most part: I think it records the start at 1/75s intervals. so if an bit is lost somwhere in between, you are out of luck for an audio CD. that is the cause of jitters in play back as I understand it.
However, with the large number of jitter 'experts" we have ont he board, i am quite sure they will be able to provide more accurate information on jitter.
Yes, absolutely. DVD error correction is far more robust than CD.
I'm certainly not dismissing the possibility that blue LEDs have an effect, only those theories proposed which I know (or am reasonably certain) are incorrect... just a process of elimination. Personally, I'm satisfied to conclude that photodiode biasing is not what's occuring with the blue LED. So, if there is some mechanism, I have yet to figure it out. However, over the last few days, I've been thinking about it some more, and I have come up with one possible theory, but it would take some expensive instrumentation to do the measurements. In any case, I believe it requires more ponderance before I try to explain it.
fdegrove: Interestingly, the first optical disc systems were created by former hard drive people, who borrowed heavily from the engineering used in hard drive design, hence the many similarities. 🙂
Christer: DVD and SACD both use spiral tracks. In fact, many of you may not know this, but SACD is in fact just an extension of the DVD standard. SACD data is stored in DVD format, on a DVD-spec single-layer disc (exception: the 2nd layer on "hybrid" SACD is a CD-audio red-book standard layer). SACD adds special encryption to the data, which requires an SACD decoder for playback. They've also modified the DVD physical spec slightly, to encode an encryption key on the disc by modulating the pit width. This modulation is not readable by standard DVD front-ends, but requires some extra analogue circuitry to separate the proper signal, and another A-D channel to digitize that and extract the encryption data. SACD should be quite robust and resistant to piracy, at least for the near future.
ashock: Adding noise will not give you a more accurate signal. However, it may have dithering effects... (think about servo control loops, not data accuracy)... hint, hint...
Thank you HifiZen for such valuable contribution to understand what is happening in the DVD scene .
Do you know what could happen when fitting some 1.2kv SiC Schottkys replacing 1n4007 diodes , a 100 uf 500v Elna Cerafine
in a €100 Panasonic S35 DVD A V power supply as i did ? Do you think that bettering components , caps and clocks , is a way ?
Regards
Do you know what could happen when fitting some 1.2kv SiC Schottkys replacing 1n4007 diodes , a 100 uf 500v Elna Cerafine
in a €100 Panasonic S35 DVD A V power supply as i did ? Do you think that bettering components , caps and clocks , is a way ?
Regards
Various MP3 bitrates
My SuperCheap (tm) DVD player does a reasonable job of playing MP3 CDs. Has anyone here done any experiments to see what is the range of bitrates these players will handle? One thing I am interested in is to see just how many hours of lo-fi speech I can fit onto 1 disc.
My SuperCheap (tm) DVD player does a reasonable job of playing MP3 CDs. Has anyone here done any experiments to see what is the range of bitrates these players will handle? One thing I am interested in is to see just how many hours of lo-fi speech I can fit onto 1 disc.
Re: Various MP3 bitrates
You should have no problems with 64kb.
But I would not go lower than 96kb, even for voice.
If you record on mono, you'll get smaller files.😉
Circlotron said:
You should have no problems with 64kb.
But I would not go lower than 96kb, even for voice.
If you record on mono, you'll get smaller files.😉
Sorry for going OT.. In fact its been forced upon...!I'm not talking of politics or poverty..its more about high end audio, technical know how and may be a bit of rocket science...here from India..
People have been talking all the while of jobs being sourced to India and the discussions i went through were rather demoralising. Yes the rates are cheaper in this part of the world. that doesnt essentially mean that we do crappy work..If I were to quote a couple of facts from my experience...
one of the best selling Analog devices DSP's was designed from scratch entirely in India..twin sharc architecture of Tag-Mclaren AVRs were conceived and protoypes created from..Software/hardware for the Denons, crestrons, kenwoods...mp3 players...memory stick controllers...electronics for game consoles mobile phone chipsets graphic accelerators..real time movie editing systems..and even momentum wheels, gyros, balancing and guidance systems for rockets and satellites...the roots can be traced back to india...look at 1394, WLAN, USB, bluetooth...one will find a good majority of 'high end' companies paying the 'cheap' indian companies royalties..how many of these do people use daily..and how buggy they really are...One can always quote the not-so-better-half of things and distort the true picture... We dont discriminate quality based on the region of origin or race..good quality and innovative thoughts are always appreciated no matter who did it...Its true that many a time we fail..could be because one is not competent in the field...but more often its not the incopetence..but the lack of time and resourses that is the killer...all the companies that outsource work want it to be done cheap...dirt cheap...result..unrealistic schedules and resourses...we complete tasks that could have taken typically an year in 3-4 months...and yes true that the quality suffers...but one cant help it...there is a trade off...One cant expect everything to workout right ..
But we dont succumb...Once there was a report on how an englishman criticized an Indian for something very minor while repairing the formers car which had broken down...it gathered a lot of publicity...and today it should be interesting to know that we were entrusted the responibilty of producing a full size scale model of the Aston Martin vantage V8..showcased last year at the Geneva auto show..and that too with an unrealistic schedule...the challenge was accepted...the result..a 100% handcrafted model to exacting specifications..to a tolerance some 60% tighter than demanded..in 1/3 of the time at 1/3rd the cost..and above all it was not a dummy stationary vehicle..it could even be driven...The only thing that was lacking was the publicity that it was made in India...And probably that is one virtue every Indian possess..talk less and work more...respect people and honour their contributions...
I dont intend to point fingers at any one...its all in the game...its a mad rush for money...yes finally thats all that matters...who saved how much...!
ajju
People have been talking all the while of jobs being sourced to India and the discussions i went through were rather demoralising. Yes the rates are cheaper in this part of the world. that doesnt essentially mean that we do crappy work..If I were to quote a couple of facts from my experience...
one of the best selling Analog devices DSP's was designed from scratch entirely in India..twin sharc architecture of Tag-Mclaren AVRs were conceived and protoypes created from..Software/hardware for the Denons, crestrons, kenwoods...mp3 players...memory stick controllers...electronics for game consoles mobile phone chipsets graphic accelerators..real time movie editing systems..and even momentum wheels, gyros, balancing and guidance systems for rockets and satellites...the roots can be traced back to india...look at 1394, WLAN, USB, bluetooth...one will find a good majority of 'high end' companies paying the 'cheap' indian companies royalties..how many of these do people use daily..and how buggy they really are...One can always quote the not-so-better-half of things and distort the true picture... We dont discriminate quality based on the region of origin or race..good quality and innovative thoughts are always appreciated no matter who did it...Its true that many a time we fail..could be because one is not competent in the field...but more often its not the incopetence..but the lack of time and resourses that is the killer...all the companies that outsource work want it to be done cheap...dirt cheap...result..unrealistic schedules and resourses...we complete tasks that could have taken typically an year in 3-4 months...and yes true that the quality suffers...but one cant help it...there is a trade off...One cant expect everything to workout right ..
But we dont succumb...Once there was a report on how an englishman criticized an Indian for something very minor while repairing the formers car which had broken down...it gathered a lot of publicity...and today it should be interesting to know that we were entrusted the responibilty of producing a full size scale model of the Aston Martin vantage V8..showcased last year at the Geneva auto show..and that too with an unrealistic schedule...the challenge was accepted...the result..a 100% handcrafted model to exacting specifications..to a tolerance some 60% tighter than demanded..in 1/3 of the time at 1/3rd the cost..and above all it was not a dummy stationary vehicle..it could even be driven...The only thing that was lacking was the publicity that it was made in India...And probably that is one virtue every Indian possess..talk less and work more...respect people and honour their contributions...
I dont intend to point fingers at any one...its all in the game...its a mad rush for money...yes finally thats all that matters...who saved how much...!
ajju
ajju said:
very well written, ajju.
we unfortunately live in a very ignorant world where people make judgement on things without understanding them. and your facts are stronger than thousands of words from those"experts" and I appreciate that.
Yes, absolutely. I think your comments are all very valid Ajju.
Now, just to keep this totally OT... 😉
If I didn't paint a rosy picture with my earlier comments, it certainly had nothing to do with the technical abilities of people from foreign countries. I apologize for any negative overtones carried in those posts. Likewise, my comment about not buying Chinese DVD players was really made out of frustration - I certainly had no illusions of actually effecting a boycott (though I still can't recommend these players, as they really are just crappy. If you're satisfied with a rock-bottom DVD player, then by all means, knock yourself out). In truth, I put the full blame for the loss of my job on my company's management. Ultimately, it was their responsibility to ensure that our products remained competitive, and IMHO they really dropped the ball on that. But back to the point... even Canada is often looked down upon for the work done here, even though we too have been responsible for some truly impressive technology. This seems to be a common perception, that somehow other countries are inferior to the US in their technical capabilities. Utter nonsense, if you ask me. A large majority of the engineers I worked with in the Valley were from China, Japan, Korea, India, or Europe somewhere, and they were all very talented people - perhaps even more talented than the Americans, and that's probably why they were hired.
What I find more interesting is the difference in business philosophies from region to region, and this I think is where many of these misperceptions come from. Bear with me, as I'm painting with a really broad brush here... American firms often seem unwilling to compromise on their products - it has to be 'done right', or they set lofty goals which end up being expensive to meet, and they regard themselves as failing if they don't get there. In the end, they just accept the extra costs involved, and hope that markets will buy their product based on quality. Japanese companies seem to think this way as well. In contrast, enterprising businesses from other countries tend to see the advantage in simply aiming to meet a price point and delivery schedule, in order to undercut the US firms. As you say, there is a certain sacrifice made in doing so, and it has nothing to do with the talent of the people behind the products, only the different business model.
Now here's where it gets interesting... Basic economic theory tells us that there is a trade balance between countries, and that more trade means greater benefit for both sides. When a foreign country can produce goods cheaper, it means they have an efficiency advantage, for whatever reason. In many cases when comparing US vs. Asia, this has to do with abundance of labour in Asia. But people fail to see that when a job is transferred from the US to Asia, what's really happening is that there is now an increase in trade, in both directions! Something has to flow back across the pacific to pay for that foreign DVD player. Usually that means an increase in US exports... creating new jobs, just in a different industry where the US has a comparative advantage. Now each country does what it does best, and then trade goods, making both countries better off. Of course it gets more complicated than that, with the US dollar being driven down by massive government deficit spending, while Asian governments try to prop it up by buying and holding huge amounts of US dollars (in an effort to protect their exports to the US, upon which they rely heavily to support their developing economies). As a result, there is presently a US trade deficit, hence jobs going overseas. The US is buying more than it is selling, which clearly can't last forever. Now, with such a low US dollar, foreign companies are forced to lower their prices in order to sell into the critical US market... and this brings us straight back to the earlier discussion about price vs. quality tradeoff.
But, enough of that. It just gets too complicated for anyone but the most skilled economist to really come to grips with it all.
Now, just to keep this totally OT... 😉
If I didn't paint a rosy picture with my earlier comments, it certainly had nothing to do with the technical abilities of people from foreign countries. I apologize for any negative overtones carried in those posts. Likewise, my comment about not buying Chinese DVD players was really made out of frustration - I certainly had no illusions of actually effecting a boycott (though I still can't recommend these players, as they really are just crappy. If you're satisfied with a rock-bottom DVD player, then by all means, knock yourself out). In truth, I put the full blame for the loss of my job on my company's management. Ultimately, it was their responsibility to ensure that our products remained competitive, and IMHO they really dropped the ball on that. But back to the point... even Canada is often looked down upon for the work done here, even though we too have been responsible for some truly impressive technology. This seems to be a common perception, that somehow other countries are inferior to the US in their technical capabilities. Utter nonsense, if you ask me. A large majority of the engineers I worked with in the Valley were from China, Japan, Korea, India, or Europe somewhere, and they were all very talented people - perhaps even more talented than the Americans, and that's probably why they were hired.
What I find more interesting is the difference in business philosophies from region to region, and this I think is where many of these misperceptions come from. Bear with me, as I'm painting with a really broad brush here... American firms often seem unwilling to compromise on their products - it has to be 'done right', or they set lofty goals which end up being expensive to meet, and they regard themselves as failing if they don't get there. In the end, they just accept the extra costs involved, and hope that markets will buy their product based on quality. Japanese companies seem to think this way as well. In contrast, enterprising businesses from other countries tend to see the advantage in simply aiming to meet a price point and delivery schedule, in order to undercut the US firms. As you say, there is a certain sacrifice made in doing so, and it has nothing to do with the talent of the people behind the products, only the different business model.
Now here's where it gets interesting... Basic economic theory tells us that there is a trade balance between countries, and that more trade means greater benefit for both sides. When a foreign country can produce goods cheaper, it means they have an efficiency advantage, for whatever reason. In many cases when comparing US vs. Asia, this has to do with abundance of labour in Asia. But people fail to see that when a job is transferred from the US to Asia, what's really happening is that there is now an increase in trade, in both directions! Something has to flow back across the pacific to pay for that foreign DVD player. Usually that means an increase in US exports... creating new jobs, just in a different industry where the US has a comparative advantage. Now each country does what it does best, and then trade goods, making both countries better off. Of course it gets more complicated than that, with the US dollar being driven down by massive government deficit spending, while Asian governments try to prop it up by buying and holding huge amounts of US dollars (in an effort to protect their exports to the US, upon which they rely heavily to support their developing economies). As a result, there is presently a US trade deficit, hence jobs going overseas. The US is buying more than it is selling, which clearly can't last forever. Now, with such a low US dollar, foreign companies are forced to lower their prices in order to sell into the critical US market... and this brings us straight back to the earlier discussion about price vs. quality tradeoff.
But, enough of that. It just gets too complicated for anyone but the most skilled economist to really come to grips with it all.
sorry ppl..abt my last post...that was more of a rush of blood...🙂
now talking of DVD/CD players from markets like china...there are two sides to it..
Our good old GIGO applies here too...Chinese are masters of manufaturing...they can manufacture anything from a
sewing needle to a spacecraft provided you guide them properly. So what you give is what you get...If one gives a bad design to a chinese manufacturer he will manufacture the product to exact specifications...its not him to be blamed but rather the original design..
and that is how we get inferior quality products...feed in a state of the art design and that will come out of a chiese factory as a GEM of a product. So it is essentially that...the design that is supplied....If we look at the industry today a good majority of the products including brands like Sony, pioneer, nokia, panasonic etc etc are manufactured in china or south east asia. If the label/stamp wouldnt have been there..no one would have picked that fact......Look at the koreans...they are masters of reverse engineering...They could create huge business from a condemned project...an automibile project which was condemned by a major auto maker was bought cheaply by koreans and they turned it into a GEM..the product later on went to win many a awards...but its unfortunate that the company had to shut down...but the same automobile design has been bought over by another world player and will be relaunched globally...
So where do the other 'bad designs' come from..Ofcourse these are all reverse engineered from popular models..and these people who really do the activity try to replace all the custom parts or high end parts with Cheaper readily available versions..the only motive being low cost mass production...obviously quality suffers...Its again all about business and money...
Its like this...one might sell 100 units at a margin of 20...but you get the same returns if u sell 1000 units at a cheaper rate and may be a narrowr margin say 2...still the manufacturing chain is not at loss...but the consumer defenitely is...
so as far as CD's/DVD's are concerned its a chance...Its for certain that no reverse engineered product will have 100% of its parts replaced...U'll find bits and pieces of the original design...This is what we need to lookout for...
I believe, for the DIY community, it is a nice market to source materials that are not readily accessable otherwise...
Keep an eye open, probably u'll find high end dacs, or transport or displays or something in some cheapo system.. One might classify it as a reject from a high end manufacturer...but the fact is we DIY'ers experiment with our ears...and not with technical facts and figures...The component would have been a high end reject 'coz it dint meet one QC parameter marginally...
quite possible...but if i get the same component from the open market how is it gaurenteed that the stuff i get is really high end..we dont have any means to measure except our instincts...It might well be worser than that in the cheapo..
Another thing...as far as digital electronics goes...provided everything is digital there are less chances that u'll find a difference between a unit priced at 10000 and one at 100(considering the fact that chipsets available are few) ..but except aesthetics(a lot of glitter and lights and ...and..) and build quality...the difference start emerging mainly with the analog and mixed signal sections...
so if we can get a cheap player...keep the digital sections and change the Analog/mixed signal sections to something better if required..
chances are high that we will end up with a system comparable to 'high end'
another thing to lookout for is the Power Supply and the PCB's...These are components where major cost savings can be done...
Power supplies might be less than specifications with a poor line/load regulation and hence in some regions may cause internal voltage drops at peak loads and hence device may reset stop or malfunction for an unknown reason...Some times this even causes a failure in recognising CD's put on the drive...
Another major component is the PCB... This is imprtant...Changing the material of the PCB can result in huge cost savings...in high speed Electronics a PCB is as important as the devices that sit on it...I personally know of occassions where systems have failed to work/display strange behaviour characteristics when the PCB material was changed from high quality GlassEpoxies to something mediocre...as a move to cut costs..! and before any mods its always advisible to ascertain the quality of PCB...some poor PCBs peel of pretty quickly and is difficult to mend as the tracks will be very thin..
ajju
now talking of DVD/CD players from markets like china...there are two sides to it..
Our good old GIGO applies here too...Chinese are masters of manufaturing...they can manufacture anything from a
sewing needle to a spacecraft provided you guide them properly. So what you give is what you get...If one gives a bad design to a chinese manufacturer he will manufacture the product to exact specifications...its not him to be blamed but rather the original design..
and that is how we get inferior quality products...feed in a state of the art design and that will come out of a chiese factory as a GEM of a product. So it is essentially that...the design that is supplied....If we look at the industry today a good majority of the products including brands like Sony, pioneer, nokia, panasonic etc etc are manufactured in china or south east asia. If the label/stamp wouldnt have been there..no one would have picked that fact......Look at the koreans...they are masters of reverse engineering...They could create huge business from a condemned project...an automibile project which was condemned by a major auto maker was bought cheaply by koreans and they turned it into a GEM..the product later on went to win many a awards...but its unfortunate that the company had to shut down...but the same automobile design has been bought over by another world player and will be relaunched globally...
So where do the other 'bad designs' come from..Ofcourse these are all reverse engineered from popular models..and these people who really do the activity try to replace all the custom parts or high end parts with Cheaper readily available versions..the only motive being low cost mass production...obviously quality suffers...Its again all about business and money...
Its like this...one might sell 100 units at a margin of 20...but you get the same returns if u sell 1000 units at a cheaper rate and may be a narrowr margin say 2...still the manufacturing chain is not at loss...but the consumer defenitely is...
so as far as CD's/DVD's are concerned its a chance...Its for certain that no reverse engineered product will have 100% of its parts replaced...U'll find bits and pieces of the original design...This is what we need to lookout for...
I believe, for the DIY community, it is a nice market to source materials that are not readily accessable otherwise...
Keep an eye open, probably u'll find high end dacs, or transport or displays or something in some cheapo system.. One might classify it as a reject from a high end manufacturer...but the fact is we DIY'ers experiment with our ears...and not with technical facts and figures...The component would have been a high end reject 'coz it dint meet one QC parameter marginally...
quite possible...but if i get the same component from the open market how is it gaurenteed that the stuff i get is really high end..we dont have any means to measure except our instincts...It might well be worser than that in the cheapo..
Another thing...as far as digital electronics goes...provided everything is digital there are less chances that u'll find a difference between a unit priced at 10000 and one at 100(considering the fact that chipsets available are few) ..but except aesthetics(a lot of glitter and lights and ...and..) and build quality...the difference start emerging mainly with the analog and mixed signal sections...
so if we can get a cheap player...keep the digital sections and change the Analog/mixed signal sections to something better if required..
chances are high that we will end up with a system comparable to 'high end'
another thing to lookout for is the Power Supply and the PCB's...These are components where major cost savings can be done...
Power supplies might be less than specifications with a poor line/load regulation and hence in some regions may cause internal voltage drops at peak loads and hence device may reset stop or malfunction for an unknown reason...Some times this even causes a failure in recognising CD's put on the drive...
Another major component is the PCB... This is imprtant...Changing the material of the PCB can result in huge cost savings...in high speed Electronics a PCB is as important as the devices that sit on it...I personally know of occassions where systems have failed to work/display strange behaviour characteristics when the PCB material was changed from high quality GlassEpoxies to something mediocre...as a move to cut costs..! and before any mods its always advisible to ascertain the quality of PCB...some poor PCBs peel of pretty quickly and is difficult to mend as the tracks will be very thin..
ajju
hifiZen said:
I view it differently. the burden is on all of us to accept the reality that as long as we engage in welfare-enhancing trade with the rest of the world, we have to accept the reality of "labor trade" whereby firms can freely chose their labor force, globally, to maximize profits. That means we have to compete with folks all over the world.
US steelworkers didn't see that, the textile workers didn't see that. Their insistance on sky high wages killed the industries and those workers jobs in the process as well.
hifiZen said:
maybe that's true from the engineering department. profitability is certainly higher on US firm's priority list than in Japan or Europe, from my experience. US firms tend to target a market segment and design their products to "cost out" that segment.
Firms in China, on the other hand, aims to produce the cheapest products with a pre-determined feature sets. It, as i had speculated somewhere else, may have something to do with their culture: price competition is extremely intense for the Chinese.
Come on guys, don't confuse matters.
Of course, there's good things everywhere.
What I criticised, and what is being discussed here are those SUPER CHEAP DVD PLAYERS.
They are "no brand" products, today you see them on the supermarket, one year later you don't, and you never see that brand again.
The big brands also manufacture on the far east, but that's a different story.
You don't see Philips, Pioneer, Sony DVD players being returned with defects at a 50% rate, do you?
Note: if you pull my leg I'll tell you the curious story of LG Electronics.😉
Of course, there's good things everywhere.
What I criticised, and what is being discussed here are those SUPER CHEAP DVD PLAYERS.
They are "no brand" products, today you see them on the supermarket, one year later you don't, and you never see that brand again.
The big brands also manufacture on the far east, but that's a different story.
You don't see Philips, Pioneer, Sony DVD players being returned with defects at a 50% rate, do you?
Note: if you pull my leg I'll tell you the curious story of LG Electronics.😉
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