15 in woofer is suitable mid driver for Synergy
It turns out that given a large enough Synergy (1 m wide mouth) a 15 inch Deltalite works very well as a 100Hz to almost 1kHz mid driver.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subwoofers/258706-study-dipole-cardioid-bass-horn.html
It turns out that given a large enough Synergy (1 m wide mouth) a 15 inch Deltalite works very well as a 100Hz to almost 1kHz mid driver.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subwoofers/258706-study-dipole-cardioid-bass-horn.html
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
I see on pictures that the horn can als be more width and less high, hornresp go square, but I can tell hornresp width has te be more then high, is this way allowed, because i see I get better way to mount speakers, special when 3 way with 8 inch bass/mid in it.
It turns out that given a large enough Synergy (1 m wide mouth) a 15 inch Deltalite works very well as a 100Hz to almost 1kHz mid driver.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subwoofers/258706-study-dipole-cardioid-bass-horn.html
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Way cool. Good to see others doing cardioid Synergy horns. They work, they sound great.
One thing to be careful of:
It's difficult to determine if the output that you're measuring is coming from the *front* of the cone or the back of the cone.
IE, with my 3.5" ND91s I was seeing output up to 10khz, and then I realized that my mic was picking up the sound radiating from the back of the horn.
What I did to minimize this was that I wrapped the back of the cone in wool, so that I was basically measuring the sound radiated by the *front* of the cone mostly.
Of course, this isn't perfect, as the wool doesn't attenuate the back wave completely, but it *does* attenuate it significantly at 1khz and above, which is what I was concerned about.
It appears Legis changed his mind regarding the dipole:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subwoofers/258706-study-dipole-cardioid-bass-horn-23.html
As he says:
"They work better with back chambers, unfortunately. Even more clearer and more bass."
We mentioned this concern to Legis who is building the horns. I thought it would be bad but Legis measured response of the CD with the round holes taped over and there was very little difference. Surprising.
Look at the data on post 225 of the Cardiod thread:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
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While poking around on the Internets I found a driver that's similar to the Celestion used in the Danley Synergy horns.
I can see why Danley went from the 5" mids used at Sound Physics Labs to the 4" mids used at DSL. The smaller mids make it easier to cross over to the compression driver. Basically you want the mids to be small, but not so small that output and power handling get nuked.
Here's a comparison of the driver I found this morning, and the Celestion:
name : Pyle PDMR5 / Celestion TF0410MR / Power Acoustik XPS-104
size : 5" / 4" / 4"
FS : 465hz / 400hz / ?
voice coil : 1" / 1" / 0.75"
cone : paper / paper / paper
surround : foam / accordian / foam
magnet weight : 15oz / 17oz / 15oz
price : $9.50 / unobtanium / $7.50
I ordered one off of Amazon Prime just to get the T/S params. If it turns out to be superior to the Pyle PDMR5, maybe I'll get a box from MCM (who sells it for less.)
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Power Acoustik also has an 8" that looks like an interesting candidate for a three way synergy horn. Paper cone and accordian surround says "horn friendly" and the price is good too. Just $22
I noticed a few things about the Power Acoustik midrange:
1) it's Fb is correct for a Synergy Horn, about 550hz
2) Getting the grill off without trashing the driver seems to be impossible. (Tried on mine, and killed it.) The grill and the surround are bonded at the same spot.
3) I noticed that GRS and Goldwood sell some closed back 5" midranges that appear to be the same driver, or very close. They're available from Madisound, Parts Express, and Amazon
Speaking of Goldwood, Parts Express is now stocking a larger version of the GT-25 cone tweeter that I had good results with back in 2012:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Goldwood GM-35 5" Cone Midrange
It's called the GM-35, available from PE for $5.63 in bulk
Leave the grill and make a standoff ring out of whatever material. Foamcore works great as a spacer and gasket all in one.
Hey guys... I've read the thread from end to end but I may as well ask. We are building the system In this thread and trying to hit 130dB on a reasonable budget.
Is there a consensus on which drivers to use in a synergy to achieve this? They will be mated with 2 x Xoc1's TH18's using a miniDsp2x8.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/pa-systems/257605-art-car-sound-system-unique-challenge.html
Cheers in advance
Is there a consensus on which drivers to use in a synergy to achieve this? They will be mated with 2 x Xoc1's TH18's using a miniDsp2x8.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/pa-systems/257605-art-car-sound-system-unique-challenge.html
Cheers in advance
I am in midst of designing a tractrix unity/synergy that will hit 130dB on a modest budget. It is based on a high sensitivity mid/fullrange from PRV 5MR450-NDY that provides 130dB from 250Hz to 15kHz with 95dB sensitivity and 225watts rms power handling. Then pair that with a pair of Kappalite 12's for 80Hz to 300Hz, actually XO is at 180Hz. I have tested the PRV full range: it is true to published specs and sounds great. Next step is to make the horn. If that works I will add the woofers to get it down to 80Hz. I also have a bass horn that will cover up to 200Hz easily at this point.
More info in this thread:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/259293-prv-5mr450-ndy-fast-applications.html
Here is the sim of the 2-way tractrix synergy:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/259293-prv-5mr450-ndy-fast-applications-7.html#post4020408
The simplicity of a two-way system and the fact that the critical phase and frequency content comes from a single driver are key to this design for great imaging and soundstage.
More info in this thread:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/259293-prv-5mr450-ndy-fast-applications.html
Here is the sim of the 2-way tractrix synergy:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/259293-prv-5mr450-ndy-fast-applications-7.html#post4020408
The simplicity of a two-way system and the fact that the critical phase and frequency content comes from a single driver are key to this design for great imaging and soundstage.
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I did a sim with old phillips bas woofers 8 inch.
looks not bad, or I did something wrong, maybe woofer can get not that close, but 600 hz is easy
to get.
How to sim tractrix with horrnresp? looks nice a 2 way, but is tractrix not big?
because I need a home version of the synergy, not need for 130+ dB nabure will then knock my door asking if I did loose my brain somewhere..
regards
kees
looks not bad, or I did something wrong, maybe woofer can get not that close, but 600 hz is easy
to get.
How to sim tractrix with horrnresp? looks nice a 2 way, but is tractrix not big?
because I need a home version of the synergy, not need for 130+ dB nabure will then knock my door asking if I did loose my brain somewhere..
regards
kees
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That is a nice flat wide response. That profile is not a tractrix though (looks more like a Danley Synergy expansion) - a tractrix is only possible to be approximated in Akabak with many segments - and produces the nice flat response all the way up to HF. Your driver looks way bigger than the horn in the diagram - is that physically a feasible plan?
What Phillips driver are you using?
Why is 6cm port length impossible? just distance between driver chamber and horn wall isn't it?
You will find no consensus here, but probably the most "reasonable budget" (and most sensitive) approach would be similar to what Legis did, and also add bass reflex ports to a slightly larger chamber to get the LF up to the TH level.
Art
You will never reach 15KHz when horn loading the PRV mid. You will start to see the high frequencies dropping off starting at around 1400Hz. Even with the narrowing directivity of the tractrix you will not get anything useful past about 5KHz. Not even a phasing plug will get you to 15KHz.