IC $ & datasheets found . . . $ total?
Great technical ideas here.
. . . great bang for buck/ euro/ - how many?
Reason to ask:
To build about 6-7 speakers (sure it’s too much 🙄 ) over the next year or two (+/- 10%) – *all active*😎 : inc.
- a PHL/ Neo3 bookshelf,
- two three-ways (one a PHL/ ribbon version of SL Phoenix),
- an Usher bookshelf,
- a couple of active subs,
Need a lot of (not too costly) amps!
Will start with one each, based on:
ST 4048-X1
LM 3886
TDA 7293/4
Before I dream too much
, would costs have yours run to?
**Complete * cost* (+/- 10%) 2 channels,
including power supply??
😕
Great technical ideas here.
. . . great bang for buck/ euro/ - how many?
Reason to ask:
To build about 6-7 speakers (sure it’s too much 🙄 ) over the next year or two (+/- 10%) – *all active*😎 : inc.
- a PHL/ Neo3 bookshelf,
- two three-ways (one a PHL/ ribbon version of SL Phoenix),
- an Usher bookshelf,
- a couple of active subs,
Need a lot of (not too costly) amps!
Will start with one each, based on:
ST 4048-X1
LM 3886
TDA 7293/4
Before I dream too much
, would costs have yours run to?**Complete * cost* (+/- 10%) 2 channels,
including power supply??
😕
ok they're a bargain, but can we *quantify* this -
can we please have some posts
cost (excluding aesthetic eg case, without adding eg the solder - within 10%) for the 2 channels,
Complete with everything thing in the sonic chain, including power supply??
😕
rljones - are you still in this thread?
can we please have some posts
cost (excluding aesthetic eg case, without adding eg the solder - within 10%) for the 2 channels,
Complete with everything thing in the sonic chain, including power supply??
😕
rljones - are you still in this thread?
Yeah, I'm still here. I was trying to avoid this thread.
If you read a few pages back, you'll see how I opened a few of these guys (4048XI) up and found that they're not all created equal. I would NOT use them in a design because of this. If someone wants to purchase my remaining stock (I think I have about 8 pieces of the 4044XI (all good stuff as I recall) and 8 or so pieces of the 4048XI (mixed), then email me.
Prices. Good question. Break it down into 3 parts: chassis, power supply and main boards. Under chassis, you also have your heat sinks. These heat sinks may or may not be part of the chassis. Are you going to design your own or buy one off the shelf? Figure on at least $100 for a chassis, more if you want it well built. Heat sinks will add to the cost. The size will depend upn how large your boards are (include the power supply section), the size of the transformer, how large the heat sinks are (which are affected by the power rating of the amp; how much power; class A or B, etc). Also, monoblock or stereo; monoblock means two chassis, and that means double the costs for the power supply and chassis. In this section, I'd also include my input jacks and binding posts. How much here do you wish to spend? You can spend as little as $10 or as much as $150 or so with WBTs.
The power supply will run you about $75 for a toroidal transformer (Avel), more or less depending upon the VA rating. The power supply will probably cost you at least $50: most caps run about $15 for a 12,000 uF at 63V; so that's $30 with only one stage of filtering, plus rectifier bridge (dual or single?).
Next, the audio section. Are you going to point to point wire, or build up a pcb? The various parts will probably cost you $30 per channel. But even here, if you start adding exotic bypass caps or DC blocking caps made of voodoo oils, etc, you can drive this section up into the hundreds of dollars.
The audio section is typically the least expensive part. The power supply and chassis parts cost the most and take the most time to put together. Drilling holes and wiring also take time, especially if you don't have the right tools.
You could skip much of the above costs if you gut an old amp or receiver, and utilize it's power supply and some of the parts.
Regards, Robert
If you read a few pages back, you'll see how I opened a few of these guys (4048XI) up and found that they're not all created equal. I would NOT use them in a design because of this. If someone wants to purchase my remaining stock (I think I have about 8 pieces of the 4044XI (all good stuff as I recall) and 8 or so pieces of the 4048XI (mixed), then email me.
Prices. Good question. Break it down into 3 parts: chassis, power supply and main boards. Under chassis, you also have your heat sinks. These heat sinks may or may not be part of the chassis. Are you going to design your own or buy one off the shelf? Figure on at least $100 for a chassis, more if you want it well built. Heat sinks will add to the cost. The size will depend upn how large your boards are (include the power supply section), the size of the transformer, how large the heat sinks are (which are affected by the power rating of the amp; how much power; class A or B, etc). Also, monoblock or stereo; monoblock means two chassis, and that means double the costs for the power supply and chassis. In this section, I'd also include my input jacks and binding posts. How much here do you wish to spend? You can spend as little as $10 or as much as $150 or so with WBTs.
The power supply will run you about $75 for a toroidal transformer (Avel), more or less depending upon the VA rating. The power supply will probably cost you at least $50: most caps run about $15 for a 12,000 uF at 63V; so that's $30 with only one stage of filtering, plus rectifier bridge (dual or single?).
Next, the audio section. Are you going to point to point wire, or build up a pcb? The various parts will probably cost you $30 per channel. But even here, if you start adding exotic bypass caps or DC blocking caps made of voodoo oils, etc, you can drive this section up into the hundreds of dollars.
The audio section is typically the least expensive part. The power supply and chassis parts cost the most and take the most time to put together. Drilling holes and wiring also take time, especially if you don't have the right tools.
You could skip much of the above costs if you gut an old amp or receiver, and utilize it's power supply and some of the parts.
Regards, Robert
Thanks again
Robert
Thanks for the info, I had read about the dodgy chips.
Not trying other GC projects with other chips?
Richard
Robert
Thanks for the info, I had read about the dodgy chips.
Not trying other GC projects with other chips?
Richard
I'm not sure that this amp has been discussed before in the forum or not, but I'm pretty sure that it uses an STK chip.
I think it gives a nice reference to what can be achieved with these chips and what the value of the finished product is.
http://www.ird-thailand.com/products/mb100/mb100.htm
Can anyone verify my assumption about the STK chip?
I was two things have given me a new level of respect for these things in the last few years.
The first was dissecting a Genelec 1031a, STK XXXX (cant remember) an amazing sounding near field monitor.
The second came after I friend my fancy discrete component receiver in an act of late night stupidity. Needing a replacement amp, I dusted off my old Techniques receiver, that uses a pair of STKxxx (again my memory fails). I should have A-B compared the two before plunking down the money on the fancy stuff, the STK chips with a nice beefy PS blow it out of the water.
I think it gives a nice reference to what can be achieved with these chips and what the value of the finished product is.
http://www.ird-thailand.com/products/mb100/mb100.htm
Can anyone verify my assumption about the STK chip?
I was two things have given me a new level of respect for these things in the last few years.
The first was dissecting a Genelec 1031a, STK XXXX (cant remember) an amazing sounding near field monitor.
The second came after I friend my fancy discrete component receiver in an act of late night stupidity. Needing a replacement amp, I dusted off my old Techniques receiver, that uses a pair of STKxxx (again my memory fails). I should have A-B compared the two before plunking down the money on the fancy stuff, the STK chips with a nice beefy PS blow it out of the water.
Successful slave?
Slightly OT:
I'm considering buying a quantity of TDA7293s, to drive some harder loads.
Did anyone ever get the 7293 working successfully in slave mode?
Regards
Richard
Slightly OT:
I'm considering buying a quantity of TDA7293s, to drive some harder loads.
Did anyone ever get the 7293 working successfully in slave mode?
Regards
Richard
Hi Guys. I'll post here the pcb I used to build the STK4050 amplifier during my vacation. It works very fine. I'm in the DJ business and I use this amplifier to drive a pair of 8ohm Smart series Proel satellites. I plan to build one of the aussie amplifers - the 400W one (A.Holton - www.aussieamplifiers.com) to drive two HD15 subwoofers (www.speakerplans.com) but I'll do it in my next vacation in may. Yo'll need ExpressPcb to view/print the circuit . Print it as it is. It will mirror itself when you transfer it to the pcb. I use Mactac transfer foil (~2$/sheet - www.mactac.com). I will post the protection circuit as soon as I find the schematic (my wife's cleaning habit). Take care.
indeed... The Stk is a fantastic amp ic module that is quite often misunderstood - they range from low power (5W) through to 120W/ch (1 chip) or 1x 200W avail in current mirror , quasi complimentary or complimentary symmetry
some are more basic (stk433) while you can get HiFi grade (STK2058IV)
The STK concept had some spin offs like Sanken's SI series hybrid
and Technics started the SVI series Hybrid ICs (orig based from STK)
overall you cant really judge the entire series by any one IC as each is alot different in performance - i hear some ppl say STK's n the like are lofi components - only due to them hearing one of the cap coupled base model ic (STK 441)
STK go much further than Amps - V Reg TV vert ics FM ics stepper motor drivers 3 phase drives projector set ICs
as far is i go you cant beat a good STK - that is unless you intend using 2SA1494/2SC3858
feel free to ask me more - i could talk STK all day
-Baily
some are more basic (stk433) while you can get HiFi grade (STK2058IV)
The STK concept had some spin offs like Sanken's SI series hybrid
and Technics started the SVI series Hybrid ICs (orig based from STK)
overall you cant really judge the entire series by any one IC as each is alot different in performance - i hear some ppl say STK's n the like are lofi components - only due to them hearing one of the cap coupled base model ic (STK 441)
STK go much further than Amps - V Reg TV vert ics FM ics stepper motor drivers 3 phase drives projector set ICs
as far is i go you cant beat a good STK - that is unless you intend using 2SA1494/2SC3858
feel free to ask me more - i could talk STK all day
-Baily
hi, i have been reading about the stk 4050v and would like to make an amp, i have some transformers that were used for 240-120 step down transformers, they are 300va and have 60-0-60v outputs, reading the manufacturers datatsheet it says they chip will take upto +/-95v. does that mean it will take 95-0-95v or 42-0-42v to equal 95v, im a little confused i hope it is 95-0-95 as when the power supply is smoothed i should be within the 95v limit. thanks joe
will hold 95-0-95 VDC
though for 8 ohms 66V is recommended
i myself would try to avoid running unnessicary high volts
if this is what you will use id suggest larger heatsink
- Baily
though for 8 ohms 66V is recommended
i myself would try to avoid running unnessicary high volts
if this is what you will use id suggest larger heatsink
- Baily
I have used the stks for a surround amp and I can say the sound is realy realy good.
There was a 70 Watt modul with high quality but I can´t remember the number.
does anybody have a link or access to a databook?
These things just need a very good power supply.
There was a 70 Watt modul with high quality but I can´t remember the number.
does anybody have a link or access to a databook?
These things just need a very good power supply.
The Oscillation Problems
Hello Mr.rljones
I built STK4192II seven years ago when I was 16, of course did every thing as in the datasheets of sanyo.When I first switched the supplies on, without having any load connected to the outputs nor any thing connected to the inputs, I smelled that something was burning, to findout that the RC on the outputs is the problem,it was the 4.7 Ohm resistors who were burning, they were 1/4 watt .I did not pay attention to the wattage of those resistors at the first place, of course I tried higher wattage resistors ( 5 watts) and found out that they still warm up when I disconnect the speakers, so I finally abandoned them,and the amplifier found its way to a friend .
Two weeks ago, I received some ready made PCBs for STK4191II, and STK4231II .I compared the layout of each PCB with the ones drawn in the datasheets of each IC, and they were the same , approximatelly better than the layouts in datashets, because they avoid unnecessary tracks .
But today when I read the experiments with oscillation and how to solve it, I was terrified from even buying the STK modules to build every thing again, it seems that the thing that was burning up the 4.7 Ohm resistors was the oscillation, and it was really bad, I did not know till today that this oscillation is inherent in the STK modules (I think sooooo) .
My questions are, why does the STK modules oscillate, and what gain is to be used to avoid this if the datasheets specify that the ICs will be happy to work with 26 to 40 dB, do the commercial units have the same problems with oscillation when they use STK modules, and shall I ground the heatsink to avoid oscillation, how can I detect oscillation if I don't have an oscilloscope, I don't think I will wait to watch the 4.7 Ohm resistors burn or heat up .
Kind Regards
Hello Mr.rljones
I built STK4192II seven years ago when I was 16, of course did every thing as in the datasheets of sanyo.When I first switched the supplies on, without having any load connected to the outputs nor any thing connected to the inputs, I smelled that something was burning, to findout that the RC on the outputs is the problem,it was the 4.7 Ohm resistors who were burning, they were 1/4 watt .I did not pay attention to the wattage of those resistors at the first place, of course I tried higher wattage resistors ( 5 watts) and found out that they still warm up when I disconnect the speakers, so I finally abandoned them,and the amplifier found its way to a friend .
Two weeks ago, I received some ready made PCBs for STK4191II, and STK4231II .I compared the layout of each PCB with the ones drawn in the datasheets of each IC, and they were the same , approximatelly better than the layouts in datashets, because they avoid unnecessary tracks .
But today when I read the experiments with oscillation and how to solve it, I was terrified from even buying the STK modules to build every thing again, it seems that the thing that was burning up the 4.7 Ohm resistors was the oscillation, and it was really bad, I did not know till today that this oscillation is inherent in the STK modules (I think sooooo) .
My questions are, why does the STK modules oscillate, and what gain is to be used to avoid this if the datasheets specify that the ICs will be happy to work with 26 to 40 dB, do the commercial units have the same problems with oscillation when they use STK modules, and shall I ground the heatsink to avoid oscillation, how can I detect oscillation if I don't have an oscilloscope, I don't think I will wait to watch the 4.7 Ohm resistors burn or heat up .
Kind Regards
hi, managed to rewind my transformer to 40-0-40 so hopefully it should be ok, my 4050v should be coming in the next few days, ive got 20 x 1000uf 100v caps, it will be ok to put 10 of these in parallel for +/- to give 10000uf each side wont it? Bubu? your circuit diagram is very useful thanks, is that the same as whats in the sanyo datasheet? did you change any of the value's and how does it sound? joe
Phase splitting
Hi Sangram,
Phase splitting could also be done using a dedicated unBal to Bal chip such as Analog Devices SSM2142 or Texas Instruments (Burr Brown) DRV134
Hi Sangram,
Phase splitting could also be done using a dedicated unBal to Bal chip such as Analog Devices SSM2142 or Texas Instruments (Burr Brown) DRV134
Yep I knew that later. I actually did a little experiment and found I liked the single resistor the best for simplicity, ease of use and overall sound. The DRV was probably a little better sounding but getting clean power to it was a nightmare...
Re: The Oscillation Problems
I'm not rljones and this is a really slow reply. But here's the deal. I only have access to the PCB in the datasheet, so I built them on vero using P2P through the board. Two amps in the space of one. Zero oscillation. I then dismantled it five years later and built them on the PCBs I could find (reprint of the datasheet version). Zero oscillation.
I'm talking STK 4191 II in bridged mode. Gain was x10 (dunno how many dB that is: 20?)...
metal said:
I'm not rljones and this is a really slow reply. But here's the deal. I only have access to the PCB in the datasheet, so I built them on vero using P2P through the board. Two amps in the space of one. Zero oscillation. I then dismantled it five years later and built them on the PCBs I could find (reprint of the datasheet version). Zero oscillation.
I'm talking STK 4191 II in bridged mode. Gain was x10 (dunno how many dB that is: 20?)...
I have an old Scandio AD2220 inegrated amp that I'm thinking of modifying. Does anybody know where I can get the datasheets for the STK 8260II chip. I was thinking of trying to reduce the number of components kinda like the LM gainclones if possible.
Martin
Martin