here's what i would consider a starter rig using the RCF HDL20 this is a much bigger footprint and transport weight then the Bose...
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well doing some measurements two RCF HDL20A pre side is only little larger than the bose F1. to a point where i could probably get away with it, one per side for small venues without a problem.. the cost of genuine RCF even second hand puts them out of my reach, but I'm sure the cost of building similar would make it possible even, if i have to cope with one per side for a few months..
I've found a few plans about that don't seam to difficult. the question i have now is would i be better off with pole mounted line array style boxes or standard trapezoid style box.. for throwing the sound to the back of rooms??
I've found a few plans about that don't seam to difficult. the question i have now is would i be better off with pole mounted line array style boxes or standard trapezoid style box.. for throwing the sound to the back of rooms??
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did you look at the link to Mr Morris's design?
single elements and for that matter two'sie's of array elements do not perform in the far field as intended (insert complex physics and math explanation here)and if i'm following your thinking with respect to footprint/size turning those on their sides is also problematic...
the SMT 12 design looks promising and the hazamuzik one is similar to the Morris design so those would be potential candidates.
single elements and for that matter two'sie's of array elements do not perform in the far field as intended (insert complex physics and math explanation here)and if i'm following your thinking with respect to footprint/size turning those on their sides is also problematic...
the SMT 12 design looks promising and the hazamuzik one is similar to the Morris design so those would be potential candidates.
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yes i did try to look, but the link wouldn't take me anywhere ?
aw really that surprises me, ive done a few festivals where theyve only had 1 or 2 line array boxes to cover the room.. see video below. this is a festival i did where they had 1 line array box sat on top of what looked like dual 18 subs facing forward (per size), and then 1 high on a stand facing out to the sides (per side) if i remember right i think the promoter said there was 1,500 people, and it was a large very wide room.. i walked the room as i always do listening to the band before us and i didn't notice any drop offs in sound throughout the room, actually one of the better festival sounds ive heard lately. and it was loud and clear.
YouTube
aw really that surprises me, ive done a few festivals where theyve only had 1 or 2 line array boxes to cover the room.. see video below. this is a festival i did where they had 1 line array box sat on top of what looked like dual 18 subs facing forward (per size), and then 1 high on a stand facing out to the sides (per side) if i remember right i think the promoter said there was 1,500 people, and it was a large very wide room.. i walked the room as i always do listening to the band before us and i didn't notice any drop offs in sound throughout the room, actually one of the better festival sounds ive heard lately. and it was loud and clear.
YouTube
lack of html 5 means i can't watch the vid...i will see if i can provide you with a different link to the Morris design.
If you are on a bit of a budget then:
2 x Beta Twin 18" Passive Sub Woofers - 4000w RMS System | BishopSound
£900 for 2 * twin passive 18s. I have no idea how good they are, but I think you may be able to demo them and make a decision. Formerly Carlsbro, apparently. Plenty of other options on that site also, including active units, which on paper seem to more or less match up with the budget pro subs which are quite a bit more money.
2 x Beta Twin 18" Passive Sub Woofers - 4000w RMS System | BishopSound
£900 for 2 * twin passive 18s. I have no idea how good they are, but I think you may be able to demo them and make a decision. Formerly Carlsbro, apparently. Plenty of other options on that site also, including active units, which on paper seem to more or less match up with the budget pro subs which are quite a bit more money.
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yes, but also potentially keeping the tops but taking the load off a bit with bigger subs for smaller venues, but on a budget.
I have to say that looks very interesting. Apart from those compression drivers 😱 it doesnt look too expensive to build either.
Yes very interesting, I’ll be sitting and reading the whole thread later.
Although I’d love dual 18s, unless they fit into a shoe box, I’ve got no change. I’ve already had 2 aggments today with members of the band and my farther who drives the van and helps move the gear because of my bad back... because they already think the Bose rig is to big and heavy, and actually asked me to get something smaller..
They honestly have no clue how small it is compared to its equal competition.
I’m standing my ground but I really do need more out put in as small as package as possible....
I did some SPL readings today the Bose, with 1 sub and 1 mid/ high.. at 6ft away I can get the kick drum to 85db before speaker clip. And I can get the main vocals to 108db before clipping the speakers... sooo might help give a better idea of what I’m dealing with.
Although I’d love dual 18s, unless they fit into a shoe box, I’ve got no change. I’ve already had 2 aggments today with members of the band and my farther who drives the van and helps move the gear because of my bad back... because they already think the Bose rig is to big and heavy, and actually asked me to get something smaller..
They honestly have no clue how small it is compared to its equal competition.
I’m standing my ground but I really do need more out put in as small as package as possible....
I did some SPL readings today the Bose, with 1 sub and 1 mid/ high.. at 6ft away I can get the kick drum to 85db before speaker clip. And I can get the main vocals to 108db before clipping the speakers... sooo might help give a better idea of what I’m dealing with.
any compensation or weighting on those spl readings?(something is funky....) and at what frequency are these peaks occurring?
DBA weighted. 6ft away and 5ft off the floor. I plan on getting my measurement mic out tomorrow and seeing what I get from that..
Today I tired every possible way of hooking everything up just incase I missed something. And although I can manipulate the bottom end a little more depending if I use the aux feed for the sub.. no matter what I didn’t the average db stayed the same, the speakers started to clip.. still tones of room left on the channel faders..... with an iPod playing I can get 118db before clipping on the top and 122db in the sub.
Here the Bose specs if that’s any good..... I’m just becoming more and more disappointed with them every time I gig them. They seam like really good iPod speaker but that’s it.
Talking to a pro engineer Friend of mine and the Bose expert and nobody can see anything wrong with the speaker or the way I’m running them, I think it’s just a case of a hype that the speakers can’t live up too..
Definitely looking into build something now. !!!
Today I tired every possible way of hooking everything up just incase I missed something. And although I can manipulate the bottom end a little more depending if I use the aux feed for the sub.. no matter what I didn’t the average db stayed the same, the speakers started to clip.. still tones of room left on the channel faders..... with an iPod playing I can get 118db before clipping on the top and 122db in the sub.
Here the Bose specs if that’s any good..... I’m just becoming more and more disappointed with them every time I gig them. They seam like really good iPod speaker but that’s it.
Talking to a pro engineer Friend of mine and the Bose expert and nobody can see anything wrong with the speaker or the way I’m running them, I think it’s just a case of a hype that the speakers can’t live up too..
Definitely looking into build something now. !!!
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Danley are available from Neuron Pro Audio, Manchester, Danley makes probably the most high output for there size, the Morrison DIY is also very high output v size, both very good by all accounts.
ok now i get the reported levels.
and an Ipod is a compressed source and is closed loop so yeah easy to get a high average without clipping
and an Ipod is a compressed source and is closed loop so yeah easy to get a high average without clipping
Ah thank you, I would imagine the danley price is high, but nice to finally know somewhere in the uk to find them. ����
Yeah I used the isolation of my studio so I wouldn’t get any feedback from the open mic... I had the singer in a isolation booth, and the pa Speaker out in the live room. Purely to see how loud I could get it before clipping. .. same with the kick drum.... but as normal the mid/ high top start clipping long before the sub..
Yeah I used the isolation of my studio so I wouldn’t get any feedback from the open mic... I had the singer in a isolation booth, and the pa Speaker out in the live room. Purely to see how loud I could get it before clipping. .. same with the kick drum.... but as normal the mid/ high top start clipping long before the sub..
I still think you need to check out the dB Technologies column array, at 19kg you're probably not going to find a lighter high output speaker. Thomann has them available apparently. dB Technologies Ingenia IG4T – Thomann UK
Thanks conanski, I’ve got to say when I first looked at the IG4T I couldn’t see how it would be much better that what I’ve got, but looking at the reviews and YouTube I think it’s persuded me. Still expensive but definitely within reach at a push.. would probably need 4 for outdoors. I couldn’t stretch that far at the moment. But I think 2 would be an improvement over the Bose..
Here’s an interesting question. The specs on the INGENIA IG4T and the IG3T are exactly the same except the frequency response and cabenet size.. everything else is identical. The IG3T is £100 cheaper too.
IG4T : 88hz-19khz
IG3T : 57hz -19khz
So Whitch do you think will through sound the farthest and have the most punch. 2x10” drivers or 4x6.5” drivers. HF is 1.4” in both. ?? . The 4x6.5” has more surface area. ???
Here’s an interesting question. The specs on the INGENIA IG4T and the IG3T are exactly the same except the frequency response and cabenet size.. everything else is identical. The IG3T is £100 cheaper too.
IG4T : 88hz-19khz
IG3T : 57hz -19khz
So Whitch do you think will through sound the farthest and have the most punch. 2x10” drivers or 4x6.5” drivers. HF is 1.4” in both. ?? . The 4x6.5” has more surface area. ???
Dual 10's will have a bit more low/mid grunt but the taller Ig4T cab will help project sound a little better to the back. I think either of these would be a significant upgrade from the Bose system, there are a couple users over on the Prosoundweb forums that are very happy with them for live bands. Db Ingenia IG4T first run
Interestingly there was a thread there recently about a band that was having the same problems as you with the Bose F1 system.
Interestingly there was a thread there recently about a band that was having the same problems as you with the Bose F1 system.
For sub its going to be difficult to get good output and be portable. Ive gone down the route of building fairly small boxes with fairly powerful 15" drivers (about 30kgs per unit) and potentially just having a lot of them (4, possibly 8 in the future). That said, I can see myself at some stage wanting to get some powerful 18s but the drivers Ive seen are in the order of 15kgs alone. This had me thinking that perhaps one solution is having a removable baffle (it bolts to the box) so the main box can be moved independently to the baffle and driver and then assembled on location, so what would be around a 45 kg sub then becomes split to two parts: 20kg / 25kg driver and baffle / box respectively. far more manageable. Some thought to design is needed to ensure the baffle is rock solid and air tight to the box when in place, but definitely doable.
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