Wow, you must have a substantial living room. There will definitely be an optimal flare if you load the Bruce like that, i would expect the flare will need to be on the order of as wide as bruce is tall....
Scott also noted in his Harvey that getting it too close to the walls shifted the bass balance up... that would likely be compounded by your suggested loading,
dave
Scott also noted in his Harvey that getting it too close to the walls shifted the bass balance up... that would likely be compounded by your suggested loading,
dave
Yep, they're beautiful. Stunning.
Now, how did I miss Saburo - Hiro-type Nagaoka for FE126E?
Geez, it doesn't take much to miss something around here🙂
Cheers
rcdaniel said:
Until Derek's Saburo appeared, the only place it existed was in my mail, Scott's puter and Derek's email -- i don't think it ever got mentioned in this thread.
I never got around to putting it up (there are a few of those). Saburo is the same inside as Sachiko just narrower.
dave
Thanx Dave. Study-related cabin fever has set in and I thought I may have been losing my... 😉
So many great frugal-esque designs out there now it is hard to choose one. It kind of scares me having to go back over these threads to try and get an idea of the various ways the different designs present music.
Keep up the great work.
Raymond
So many great frugal-esque designs out there now it is hard to choose one. It kind of scares me having to go back over these threads to try and get an idea of the various ways the different designs present music.
Keep up the great work.
Raymond
There is in fact a small difference in Saburo's internal layout that I haven't made very clear -the cabinet is 1/4in shorter overall. Sorry for any confusion. The reduction is due to the initial expansion stage to the rear of the cabinet being reduced to a 2.25in height to give the throat CSA I wanted. So imagine Sachiko, reduced to 5 1/8in wide, and then chopped in half, front to back, a 1/4in sliver removed, then stuck back together. Derek reports they sound pretty good -now he's had them a while I should get back in touch to find out his current impressions.
The re-write of the Spawn page (I like the idea of separating it into a main & a plans page BTW Dave!) should help explain a bit the different sonic presentations you can roughly expect to find. Re Saburo, it should be pretty smooth with decent gain & transient handling down to cut off (as they go), with a nice spacious sound. It's primarily intended for folk music -Eliza Carthy, early Loreena McKennitt 
small scale classical etc., though it should make a good attempt at most genres within the natural limitations of a small FR driver.
The re-write of the Spawn page
small scale classical etc., though it should make a good attempt at most genres within the natural limitations of a small FR driver.
Saburo vs. Sachiko
Here I've been calling them my Sachiko 126 for a lack of a better name. I had several weeks with the Saburo in the same room as the Sachiko with the 206 ESR driver. In the end, I prefer the 126 driver. It is very subjective, but my ears prefer the sound of the Saburo with the 126 over the Sachiko with the Fostex 206. The narrowness of the front baffle gives them an elegant look and they dissapear sonically. If you have carpet, you'll need to spike the bottom or make bases with some width, as they are tippy due to their height and dimensions.
Here I've been calling them my Sachiko 126 for a lack of a better name. I had several weeks with the Saburo in the same room as the Sachiko with the 206 ESR driver. In the end, I prefer the 126 driver. It is very subjective, but my ears prefer the sound of the Saburo with the 126 over the Sachiko with the Fostex 206. The narrowness of the front baffle gives them an elegant look and they dissapear sonically. If you have carpet, you'll need to spike the bottom or make bases with some width, as they are tippy due to their height and dimensions.
Re: Saburo vs. Sachiko
I have had the feeling that if faced with a similar desicion that i'd come to a similar conclusion,,, it is hard for the bigger drivers to get the midrange as "right" as the smaller drivers.
And just wait till you hear what happens when your FE126e become FE126eN 🙂
(recent experience with a stock FE127e vrs FE127eN in Fonkens have really reinforced this -- the easiest quick & dirty analogy is between "listening" to a flat 2D cartoon epresentation of a sphere vrs a slick 3D rendering that gives you the feeling of a real-world sphere).
dave
cervelorider said:
I have had the feeling that if faced with a similar desicion that i'd come to a similar conclusion,,, it is hard for the bigger drivers to get the midrange as "right" as the smaller drivers.
And just wait till you hear what happens when your FE126e become FE126eN 🙂
(recent experience with a stock FE127e vrs FE127eN in Fonkens have really reinforced this -- the easiest quick & dirty analogy is between "listening" to a flat 2D cartoon epresentation of a sphere vrs a slick 3D rendering that gives you the feeling of a real-world sphere).
dave
Re: Saburo vs. Sachiko
🙂 Glad you're still liking them. The 126 is a great small FR unit, especially in modified form. My pre-EnABL modified units are streets ahead of the already very impressive stock 126; tweaking them further is next in the que. Hopefully I'll get chance to build something for them at some point soon.
cervelorider said:
🙂 Glad you're still liking them. The 126 is a great small FR unit, especially in modified form. My pre-EnABL modified units are streets ahead of the already very impressive stock 126; tweaking them further is next in the que. Hopefully I'll get chance to build something for them at some point soon.
Brynns with FE126eN up and running; quite a cute little enclosure, easy to build, sounding very nice indeed - photos to follow
kind gets one thinking about bamboo...?
kind gets one thinking about bamboo...?
🙂 Glad to hear they're working & sounding decent Chris. I'll look forward to seeing the pictures of them too.
Bamboo ply? Yeah, I can see that -I love the aesthetics of that stuff, and I can see it suiting the box.
Bamboo ply? Yeah, I can see that -I love the aesthetics of that stuff, and I can see it suiting the box.
planet10 said:
Not a living room, entertainment room - Father in law's, not built yet though. He wanted some good all round speakers at reasonable cost so currently the plan is to go with these.
The diagram might have been a little misleading, the flares would probably be a bit shallower, unless they go in the corner which is another possibility I guess.
planet10 said:
I am a beginner when it comes to the technical details of horns, what sort of gain should I expect? If it was about 4db or so the extra bass would probably sound good I think, as a bonus a slight EQ down in the bass would reduce IM distortion by reducing cone excursion (I think).
Has anyone calculated or measured the maximum distortion free output of the Bruce design?
DB
broughd said:
Greets!
Oh yeah.......As presented, not a good plan for a 'fullrange' driver speaker since it will boost the mids more than the lows as well as add excessive standing wave distortion in front of the driver.
What you can do is flush mount it with a radiused flare that = baffle width which will reduce standing wave energy across the driver baffle, but should have little/no audible gain over just flush mounting them, though in theory they will sound a bit 'cleaner' in the mids/HF. If corner loaded and not toe'd in, then the flare will only be at the top and one side.
Note that large in-wall installs can cause significant cavity resonances, so all this volume needs plenty of rolls of insulation dropped in for best results.
GM
Note: The other speaker (for reference) in the photo is a modified Buschhorn Mk 1. It is exactly the same size as a Hornshoppe Horn (but prettier & better built)
dave
dave
Also of note is that Brynn is currently sporting FE126eN with no series R. Chris says he thinks that in his room with the high output impedance tube amps it works fine (quite fine). We will have to do a series of tests.
He also says the RatShack meter is telling him 94 dB which i find surprisingly high (the drivers measure just over 92 dB)
dave
He also says the RatShack meter is telling him 94 dB which i find surprisingly high (the drivers measure just over 92 dB)
dave
planet10 said:
Ed'll love you for that Dave. 😀 I belive it though. They look great. 🙂
Strange about the sensitivity. Nice when you have apparant gains though. Was that an average from a sweep or just across a fairly tight zone?
Scottmoose said:
Well, as a huge supporter of the right of free speech (as long as it's not on his own website), I'm sure he would echo his earlier sentiment that "there's room enough for all of us"
As for the SPL figure, the procedure was pretty raw, and could be subject to correction. I'll double check that.
The initial listening impression is not in doubt however - not quite as efficient as the B-Horns, but lacking in the midrange colorations of the latter. There is still the issue of series R loading for the 126 to determine. As of current listening session, there isn't a spare set of FE127 to try out. Hopefully that'll be remedied during the next few days, when the bamboo plywood Fonkens are back from the finishing shop.
Should make for an interesting sit down.
cheers