eh?? 6JB5/6JC5/6HE5, in my Sylvania book is exactly the same as a 6V6.
Va - 350V, peak Va 2500V, g2 300V, Anode diss 19W
Ik -peak 260ma, typical operation
(as class A amplifier - which is what a vertical deflection amp is)
at Ia 43ma Va250V, g2 250V.
You might not like this very much, but it's cheaper, much better, and has exactly the same characteristics of 6V6, but with a much higher quality glass, designed to run reliably at 200C.
What don't you understand?
Even Tubelab_com says so:-
16th April 2014 02:22 PM
AND
The image I posted above?
Which means if you really insist on running those Ab2 - you will get 30 - 40W out of them.
Va - 350V, peak Va 2500V, g2 300V, Anode diss 19W
Ik -peak 260ma, typical operation
(as class A amplifier - which is what a vertical deflection amp is)
at Ia 43ma Va250V, g2 250V.
You might not like this very much, but it's cheaper, much better, and has exactly the same characteristics of 6V6, but with a much higher quality glass, designed to run reliably at 200C.
What don't you understand?
Even Tubelab_com says so:-
16th April 2014 02:22 PM
and
These are easy to spot, as are the ones with the smaller anodes....then they moved to the massive anode version...
AND
The image I posted above?
happy now?
Which means if you really insist on running those Ab2 - you will get 30 - 40W out of them.
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I can see anything I post "gets PFL's goat".
Don't like anyone else having good ideas?
SAD.
Well have a go at our friend Tube_lab and see how you get on.
He does a lot more testing than I do, and is a mine of information.
If you want to go buying overpriced old soviet stuff off resellers in Ukraine, NMP.
(not my problem).
I can get them off the shelf any day of the week here in SPB, for 400 ryb, (in fact at least 4 shops, selling between 100-200 ryb each I just checked, so about 2-3USD, and one shop has 215 in stock.
Ie. I'm not interested.
Why anyone would bother with reflektor Saratov made 6П6С beats me, - even more so, argue about a useful upgrade, unless of course they are buying one of those nasty cheap chinese amps.
Talking of which, ..I might have some brand new NOS high quality EL34 as a result of my travels.
Don't like anyone else having good ideas?
SAD.
Well have a go at our friend Tube_lab and see how you get on.
He does a lot more testing than I do, and is a mine of information.
If you want to go buying overpriced old soviet stuff off resellers in Ukraine, NMP.
(not my problem).
I can get them off the shelf any day of the week here in SPB, for 400 ryb, (in fact at least 4 shops, selling between 100-200 ryb each I just checked, so about 2-3USD, and one shop has 215 in stock.
Ie. I'm not interested.
Why anyone would bother with reflektor Saratov made 6П6С beats me, - even more so, argue about a useful upgrade, unless of course they are buying one of those nasty cheap chinese amps.
Talking of which, ..I might have some brand new NOS high quality EL34 as a result of my travels.
I take that back, and sorry PFL200, I compared plate current for +5V grid on one graph, and -5V grid on the other.
Apart from you are not in Russia.
We had a fascinating talk at lunchtime, as it were "from the horse's mouth".
Maybe you could know a little more about the Russian radio valve industry?
We chatted with one of their foremost authorities on it today.
One of the most illuminating engineering talks I have had in more than a decade.
Some of us actually have managed to manufacture and publish stuff in the RF.
I would suggest Wavebourn on here probably knows considerably more than me.
Thanks for the 6V6 info sarcastic1.
For us here in the USA, many Russian tubes are cheaper than their US/Euro counterparts. Is the opposite true in the RF? That would be surprising...
12AX7 is a terrific example. I got sleeves of them 25 years ago for cheap. Now they cost 5X what I paid for them. Crazy. Now 6N2P-EV is cheap by comparison, even with shipping included.
I'm not going to say anything more about the beam pentodes in question because I don't want to see the prices of some tubes changing (er.. ahem.. cough cough).
...
For us here in the USA, many Russian tubes are cheaper than their US/Euro counterparts. Is the opposite true in the RF? That would be surprising...
12AX7 is a terrific example. I got sleeves of them 25 years ago for cheap. Now they cost 5X what I paid for them. Crazy. Now 6N2P-EV is cheap by comparison, even with shipping included.
I'm not going to say anything more about the beam pentodes in question because I don't want to see the prices of some tubes changing (er.. ahem.. cough cough).
...
There are a lot of people in the RF & particularly Ukraine making a nice living out of the ignorance of foreigners of cyrillic alphabet.
I only know what I can look up and get delivered, or literally walk around the corner and buy off the shelf.
I can't be 100% sure where the boxes of say 100x 6P3S-E are emerging from, but the USSR with their "5 yr plans" told companies to (over)-produce fundamentally useless components for decades, then when they failed to find a market, - basically junk them all,- then the USSR fell apart, and you could buy a flat for 100USD.
That 100USD sale could work on the basis in 1999, because in the USSR people were given a flat and a job, had to queue up for consumer goods, and got paid sweet unuseable F-A in a non convertible currency.
ie. Being as the 6П6С was made by the zillion, they have to be worth almost nothing,
PLUS on this thread, I can't really understand:-
You can still get nice western made 5V6 and 12V6 for next to nothing.
The Loctal 7C5 NOS made by Sylvania/RCA/GE..which I see on sale for cheaper than those USSR made ones:- eg.
$9.90, USD $11.95, $6.95, $4.95
And of course the upgraded TV versions I mentioned for as little as £2-£5!
So, - that means there are high quality valves by the billion out there in the RF, which are basically electronic scrap.
Recycling scrap has always been a good way for some people to make a good business, epecially if you are short on capital, so buy them in qty for next to nothing, mark them up 400-500%, and sell to ignorant foreigners who think they are getting a great deal, and tell 'em "hey these are rare, get 'em while you can!"
It was true of the UK motor industry when that fell apart, and no doubt other opportunities will arise, because western mass production always implies waste.
Soviet production by definition not only implies,- but was waste, like the old soviet joke....
ie, if your entire economic model like today's PRC depends on dumping to survive, there's always gonna be winners and losers.
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There is also the fact that in the West, the tube manufacturers (GE, RCA, Sylvania, Telefunken, Amperex, etc.) all scrapped their machinery starting in the early 1980s, just as there was a huge increase in demand for Fender and Marshall tube guitar amplifiers.
Suddenly GE, Sylvania or Philips ECG 6L6GC, 6550A and EL34/6CA7 were selling out or going for ridiculously high prices. In the mid 1980s, before the breakup of the Soviet Union, a certain American guy in New York got the idea to sell rebranded 6P3C-E as a '5881' (industrial 6L6GB), and sold them by the truckload. He made a killing on that, and expanded into importing Russian-made guitar amp heads ("MIG-50" etc.), as well as expanding his line of Russian-made tubes with an EL84M, a 6V6GT (6P6S), and a few versions of 12AX7 (6N2P with modified heaters). The business grew, some smart people started working for him and designed some quite good tubes to be made in Russia (like the 12AX7LPS and several versions of 6550, KT88 and EL34). They're still going strong. A different American company began importing 6P3S (no -E) and sold them as a "6V6-HD".
Guitar players got good results with the Russian tubes, and the hi-fi people began to try them. They got good results from the "6922" (6N23P), and in the 1990s a company named Svetlana (based in Huntsville, Alabama) made the "Winged C" tubes that I think were made in the Svetlana factory (I could be wrong about that). The "6L6GC" they made was actually quite good, and a lot cheaper and widely available than NOS Sylvania or GE 7581 or 6L6GC.
A hi-fi company started making all balanced products using 6N30P and suddenly Russian-made tubes had sex appeal in the hi-fi market.
Then came eBay, and here we are.
For a while Russian tubes were unbelievably cheap on eBay, but those days are gone. Still, the Soviet-era tubes are good. A lot of us use them and get good results.
It would be interesting to hear your take on all of that. I always wondered how the various factories hooked up with American companies to continue making vacuum tubes. How many Russian factories are left making tubes? Are they profitable?
--
Suddenly GE, Sylvania or Philips ECG 6L6GC, 6550A and EL34/6CA7 were selling out or going for ridiculously high prices. In the mid 1980s, before the breakup of the Soviet Union, a certain American guy in New York got the idea to sell rebranded 6P3C-E as a '5881' (industrial 6L6GB), and sold them by the truckload. He made a killing on that, and expanded into importing Russian-made guitar amp heads ("MIG-50" etc.), as well as expanding his line of Russian-made tubes with an EL84M, a 6V6GT (6P6S), and a few versions of 12AX7 (6N2P with modified heaters). The business grew, some smart people started working for him and designed some quite good tubes to be made in Russia (like the 12AX7LPS and several versions of 6550, KT88 and EL34). They're still going strong. A different American company began importing 6P3S (no -E) and sold them as a "6V6-HD".
Guitar players got good results with the Russian tubes, and the hi-fi people began to try them. They got good results from the "6922" (6N23P), and in the 1990s a company named Svetlana (based in Huntsville, Alabama) made the "Winged C" tubes that I think were made in the Svetlana factory (I could be wrong about that). The "6L6GC" they made was actually quite good, and a lot cheaper and widely available than NOS Sylvania or GE 7581 or 6L6GC.
A hi-fi company started making all balanced products using 6N30P and suddenly Russian-made tubes had sex appeal in the hi-fi market.
Then came eBay, and here we are.
For a while Russian tubes were unbelievably cheap on eBay, but those days are gone. Still, the Soviet-era tubes are good. A lot of us use them and get good results.
It would be interesting to hear your take on all of that. I always wondered how the various factories hooked up with American companies to continue making vacuum tubes. How many Russian factories are left making tubes? Are they profitable?
--
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I often read discussions about made in USSR components, like tubes, capacitors, resistors, etc. Some people believe that OTK stamp means the highest quality. No, it is not! It means, the batch of the stuff was accepted by QA. Usually that means that some percentage of devices was randomly selected, tested, and no deviation from the technology that caused unacceptable measurement, was found.
And the number means the personal number assigned to the person who tested the party, who bears responsibility. During my internship at Karl Marx plant in Omsk town, where Saturn tape recorders were manufactured, I had my own number 59 for the duration of the internship. I had a rubber stamp for the device passport, and a metal one, with the number in the diamond, to seal bolts.
Some devices were manufactured for "Requestors". Army, Navy, MVD, KGB, etc. Plants that manufactured such production had "Representatives of Requestors" who bared responsibility for the quality. They as well had own personal numbers. They did not test personally, but they could demand testing or stop production if it did not satisfy TU (Technical Conditions)
What matters more, "Acceptance Levels". I know about 3 levels. And they were strictly defined. Each and every device was selected from the batch.
Acceptance "5" means products of the "VP" quality category, for which the level of requirements for reliability and other operational properties, as well as for quality assurance and control, established in the design and technological documentation, standards and technical specifications, determines the suitability of their use in land, sea and aviation equipment, the failure of which leads to significant consequences, the repair and replacement of which is carried out at the level of cells and blocks.
Acceptance "7" means products of the quality category "OSM" - products of the quality category "OS", supplied in small batches and having the features of ensuring and controlling their quality specified in the technological documentation, standards and technical specifications for products.
Acceptance "9" means products of the "OS" quality category, for which the level of requirements for reliability and other operational properties, as well as for quality assurance and control, established in the design and technological documentation, standards and technical specifications, determines the suitability of their application in space and rocket equipment , special government communications, etc., the failure of which leads to catastrophic consequences, the repair and replacement of which are difficult to access or not possible.
Yes Mathews Expo-pul a first class conman with fake mullard, tung sol et al.
So if you want an oversize KT88 (KT120, KT150 etc) with an oversize anode that distorts at the first sign of dull red anode, he is your man.
I ran OEM 807s (not even 5333w) original stuff for hours glowing red, as does a guy here 6AV5 glowing all over for hours, and not the slightest sign of "breaking a sweat".
5933 is a brute, after seeing a genuine proper replica 6550 today I would choose the french made 5933 every time, never mind all the problems that came with it!
So if you want an oversize KT88 (KT120, KT150 etc) with an oversize anode that distorts at the first sign of dull red anode, he is your man.
I ran OEM 807s (not even 5333w) original stuff for hours glowing red, as does a guy here 6AV5 glowing all over for hours, and not the slightest sign of "breaking a sweat".
5933 is a brute, after seeing a genuine proper replica 6550 today I would choose the french made 5933 every time, never mind all the problems that came with it!
Sorry for the repeat posts.
Russian valves were scrap.
The "notional value" of any product in any market, is based on what you think the market "will stand" as a maximum price.
American companies are out to make a killing with min investment.
Who woudda thought it?
The old British companies like Mullard were an accident of history thanks to history and philips.
Some like GEC had massive defence contracts at the time the British had the "go it alone" to make their own aircraft, nuclear armaments and other mega - projects.
Since the demise of the Harrier, the Thatcher years, the Falklands, and any other unique UK inventions the whole UK defence inventory fell apart shortly after the fall of the USSR.
It's a chapter in European history that has yet to be fully evaluated and written down.
eh???
you can find any number of the black plate type for as little as 10USD a shot.
The one to get of course being the big anode type that closely resembles a 6550 internally, not the one that looks like 6L6/807.
I was offered a pile of them in France, but I already had loads of the British industrial STC 5B25xM variant which take up so much less space, and have the highest quality glass of any of them.
(You can put a pair of 5B25xM in the same space the original 807 takes up).
An old thread on here?
The 257m version has a 12V heater and nobody wants them.
The 256m version has a 19V heater, so the pair in series can be used to derive the bias supply of -38V.
In fact, again, coming back to the USSR made 6V6, the STC 255M variant (no top cap) is so cheap right now, you might as well forget the russian 6V6 altogether and upgrade to this miniaturised 6L6 which takes up the same amount of space.....
(hey it's just given me a nice idea to upgrade my nice old identical pair of DB110s
I hadn't thought of that until now).An absolutely remarkable feat of miniaturisation and quality control on the part of the British kent based factory.
Just saying....
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