Well, it happened again. Too much time on my hands…not getting out of the house enough for exercise…blah blah blah.
These are mine now.
Actually, I’d been watching them for a couple weeks. I think what pushed me over the edge was winning a different auction on a pair of Fostex 208e∑.
To be honest, I was enamored with the idea of building one of Dave and Scott’s double mouth Spawns pretty much since I joined DIYAudio back in 2008.
My first DIY purchase was a pair if 206e because I wanted to build a pair of Sachikos.
Unfortunately, even though I could have pulled the Sachiko off in terms of equipment and skills required, I just never seemed to have the right amount of time and motivation.
I ended up experimenting with the 206e early on with some front horns I found at a bargain price.
Then I did a SLOB project and went through several different fullrangers and open baffle iterations etc etc
I was never really convinced my modest size home was suited for open baffle, but they were fairly easy to build, change up and were fun.
Who knows if these 6 foot tall double mouth horns will work in either of my listening spaces.
They will have to go into the sunroom system first as I have a shelf on the wall in the living room which will prevent reasonable placement on one side until I decide whether I want to remove it and fix any scars it leaves on the wall.
The sunroom is about 12 X 14 feet with a 10 foot vaulted ceiling. It’s a reflective space with no curtains on the windows and only an area rug covering about 8 X 10 feet of the tile floor between my listening position on the couch and the system on the opposite wall. I have at least 10 feet between the speakers and my seat on the couch. They will be near or in the corners.
I don’t have any definitive information as to what specific design these cabinets are.
It was mentioned in the listing that they have 206nv drivers installed. I suspect they may very well be Kirishimas.
They obviously look like they could be Sachiko or Kirishima cabinets.
Unfortunately, when I contacted the seller who listed them, and who owns a used equipment shop in New Jersey, the only thing he could tell me is that they came from an audiophile in the area who loved single driver fullrange speakers who had passed away.
He had purchased them from the man’s widow, but had also purchased more than one pair of fullrange back horns from the same person in the past and resold them.
These were supposedly professionally built and obviously have a beautiful walnut veneer.
When I asked about the cabinet’s structural material he said when he inspected the bottom plate he saw plywood.
The seller was familiar with similar designs, but ultimately he couldn’t confirm the specific design.
So I will be picking them up hopefully on Saturday afternoon and will go from there.
I suppose it would be helpful if anyone has some specific dimensions I could reference from the Kirishima plans that would help me figure out if that is what these are.
These are mine now.
Actually, I’d been watching them for a couple weeks. I think what pushed me over the edge was winning a different auction on a pair of Fostex 208e∑.
To be honest, I was enamored with the idea of building one of Dave and Scott’s double mouth Spawns pretty much since I joined DIYAudio back in 2008.
My first DIY purchase was a pair if 206e because I wanted to build a pair of Sachikos.
Unfortunately, even though I could have pulled the Sachiko off in terms of equipment and skills required, I just never seemed to have the right amount of time and motivation.
I ended up experimenting with the 206e early on with some front horns I found at a bargain price.
Then I did a SLOB project and went through several different fullrangers and open baffle iterations etc etc
I was never really convinced my modest size home was suited for open baffle, but they were fairly easy to build, change up and were fun.
Who knows if these 6 foot tall double mouth horns will work in either of my listening spaces.
They will have to go into the sunroom system first as I have a shelf on the wall in the living room which will prevent reasonable placement on one side until I decide whether I want to remove it and fix any scars it leaves on the wall.
The sunroom is about 12 X 14 feet with a 10 foot vaulted ceiling. It’s a reflective space with no curtains on the windows and only an area rug covering about 8 X 10 feet of the tile floor between my listening position on the couch and the system on the opposite wall. I have at least 10 feet between the speakers and my seat on the couch. They will be near or in the corners.
I don’t have any definitive information as to what specific design these cabinets are.
It was mentioned in the listing that they have 206nv drivers installed. I suspect they may very well be Kirishimas.
They obviously look like they could be Sachiko or Kirishima cabinets.
Unfortunately, when I contacted the seller who listed them, and who owns a used equipment shop in New Jersey, the only thing he could tell me is that they came from an audiophile in the area who loved single driver fullrange speakers who had passed away.
He had purchased them from the man’s widow, but had also purchased more than one pair of fullrange back horns from the same person in the past and resold them.
These were supposedly professionally built and obviously have a beautiful walnut veneer.
When I asked about the cabinet’s structural material he said when he inspected the bottom plate he saw plywood.
The seller was familiar with similar designs, but ultimately he couldn’t confirm the specific design.
So I will be picking them up hopefully on Saturday afternoon and will go from there.
I suppose it would be helpful if anyone has some specific dimensions I could reference from the Kirishima plans that would help me figure out if that is what these are.
Attachments
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Staring at the pic while waiting for my daughter to get ready for school…
Just realized that what I thought was a shadow in the upper mouths actually looks like it could be a panel angled back…it’s hard to tell for sure.
Maybe that’s the back internal surface.
If it’s a panel that doesn’t match Kirishima plan.
Just realized that what I thought was a shadow in the upper mouths actually looks like it could be a panel angled back…it’s hard to tell for sure.
Maybe that’s the back internal surface.
If it’s a panel that doesn’t match Kirishima plan.
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Actually it does -if you look at the plans, you'll see we included the option for an angled deflector rather than the stepped. Some people prefer the appearance so we gave the dimensions in case it was desired. Other than some minor sheering effects (too small to be audible) behaviour for this particular purpose is essentially the same. The voids do need filling in the build of course, so in that sense, and the cutting of the angles, it's a little more complex.
I would say that the panels in the photo match the plans. In the upper mouth, the lower part shines due to reflection of the flash. The lower mouth has the same effect on the angled panel.
Thanks for the response Scott.
I had read that the stepped corner pieces could be done like that…and I suspect that is the case in this build.
I was actually focusing on the darker area toward the bottom of the mouth opening.
I thought it was a piece that angled back from the front baffle into the mouth. (Pic)
I might have just be thrown off by it visually.
I had read that the stepped corner pieces could be done like that…and I suspect that is the case in this build.
I was actually focusing on the darker area toward the bottom of the mouth opening.
I thought it was a piece that angled back from the front baffle into the mouth. (Pic)
I might have just be thrown off by it visually.
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The overall dimensions in the Kirishima plans are extremely close to the outside dimensions that were noted for these boxes.
I’m pretty excited and looking forward to picking them up tomorrow.
Hopefully they look as nice in person as they do in the pics. 🤞
I’m pretty excited and looking forward to picking them up tomorrow.
Hopefully they look as nice in person as they do in the pics. 🤞
So here we are after an afternoon spent taking a road trip to Jersey.
The seller actually had them set up and playing music when I arrived at his shop.
The cabinetry is top notch…not a blemish on the beautiful walnut veneer to speak of.
I was immediately impressed with how these speakers filled the room with sound and actually asked him if he had any bass assistance running in the system…nope.
He had a fancy Music Fidelity CD transport playing through a Schitt Bifrost with some sort of passive pre and some little class AB monoblock chip amps.
All I could do was smile…and wifey was quite entertained as well!
After some listening fun we got down to work loading them up.
In the process I observed that the bottom plate did in fact reveal that the boxes were built from voidless furniture grade plywood.
Before we headed back it only seemed fair to take wifey out for a nice lunch. 😉
I got them home a few hours later.
Everything went well during transport…my son and I easily moved them into my sunroom.
It took some time to clear out my open baffles and set them up, but now they are singing.
I’m using my F2J monoblock clones to drive them (a whopping 5 watts into 8 ohms).
I’m just streaming lossless from my MacBook through a DCB1 I built with about 6 dB of gain via Jensen transformers on its output.
They can reach concert hall levels in this room!
I have to say, I really wasn’t sure about the decision to buy these…so far they’ve completely surpassed my hopes and expectations.
I am looking forward to trying the 208ez and even my 206e in them. It will give me an opportunity to poke around inside and see if/how the driver chamber is lined.
I’d love to know what other drivers might work in these.
I’m fairly convinced at this point that they are the Kirishima design.
The seller actually had them set up and playing music when I arrived at his shop.
The cabinetry is top notch…not a blemish on the beautiful walnut veneer to speak of.
I was immediately impressed with how these speakers filled the room with sound and actually asked him if he had any bass assistance running in the system…nope.
He had a fancy Music Fidelity CD transport playing through a Schitt Bifrost with some sort of passive pre and some little class AB monoblock chip amps.
All I could do was smile…and wifey was quite entertained as well!
After some listening fun we got down to work loading them up.
In the process I observed that the bottom plate did in fact reveal that the boxes were built from voidless furniture grade plywood.
Before we headed back it only seemed fair to take wifey out for a nice lunch. 😉
I got them home a few hours later.
Everything went well during transport…my son and I easily moved them into my sunroom.
It took some time to clear out my open baffles and set them up, but now they are singing.
I’m using my F2J monoblock clones to drive them (a whopping 5 watts into 8 ohms).
I’m just streaming lossless from my MacBook through a DCB1 I built with about 6 dB of gain via Jensen transformers on its output.
They can reach concert hall levels in this room!
I have to say, I really wasn’t sure about the decision to buy these…so far they’ve completely surpassed my hopes and expectations.
I am looking forward to trying the 208ez and even my 206e in them. It will give me an opportunity to poke around inside and see if/how the driver chamber is lined.
I’d love to know what other drivers might work in these.
I’m fairly convinced at this point that they are the Kirishima design.
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Glad you're enjoying them.
They were designed for the FE206En. The old FE206E should go in reasonably, likewise the FE208ESigma (the latter was specifically designed to be used with one of the contemporary Fostex supertweeters). For the rest, you're on your own as I had the upper-band response characteristics of those units in mind when I did the LF load design, so even if the T/S parameters are close to the units it was designed for, it won't necessarily perform as intended, although it does have size on its side compared to some others.
They were designed for the FE206En. The old FE206E should go in reasonably, likewise the FE208ESigma (the latter was specifically designed to be used with one of the contemporary Fostex supertweeters). For the rest, you're on your own as I had the upper-band response characteristics of those units in mind when I did the LF load design, so even if the T/S parameters are close to the units it was designed for, it won't necessarily perform as intended, although it does have size on its side compared to some others.
Hi Scott
Thanks for that information regarding drivers in relation to your design.
It sounds like it might not be easy to find a different driver with the proper characteristics…and in the end it might just sound like a Fostex (not a bad thing).
I had been playing with Sonido field coils in an open baffle for a while and had hoped there were other scenarios to try them in. They are the 10” SWR250 FC in 16 Ohm.
Nothing of the Sonido looks similar on paper regarding the published T/S parameters taken at different current levels Istvan forwarded to me. I’ve been too lazy to measure them myself.
There was a lot I liked about the Sonidos. I never experienced any annoying shout with them and yet they didn’t sound dull or muted.
I thought about reaching out to Istvan to ask if he had something else that lent itself to this design…or even ask if he could build a custom 8” field coil for them.
I already have a pair of the Fostex T90A super tweeters that I got years ago to play with some FF165K I picked up in the swap meet that had their aluminum dust caps removed and phase plugs installed.
When I try the 208EZ I will be using the T90A with them.
I’ve collected several other 8” drivers that I wouldn’t bother trying (Lowther, Tang Band, Lii Audio)
The only other driver I had my eye on was the Fostex 206ESR. I haven’t found a lot of information about it except that it seems to have been a premium version of the 206E that descended from the original 208 Sigma with whizzer cone?
I haven’t read any comments about the ESR yet regarding its sound quality in comparison to the standard 206E or the newer 208EZ.
I’m sitting and listening to some quiet morning music now…David Russell playing Giuliani on guitar…these speakers play it as naturally as breathing.
Last night I was listening to Bjork’s Vespertine album and I was astonished at how effortlessly they handled that.
Thanks for that information regarding drivers in relation to your design.
It sounds like it might not be easy to find a different driver with the proper characteristics…and in the end it might just sound like a Fostex (not a bad thing).
I had been playing with Sonido field coils in an open baffle for a while and had hoped there were other scenarios to try them in. They are the 10” SWR250 FC in 16 Ohm.
Nothing of the Sonido looks similar on paper regarding the published T/S parameters taken at different current levels Istvan forwarded to me. I’ve been too lazy to measure them myself.
There was a lot I liked about the Sonidos. I never experienced any annoying shout with them and yet they didn’t sound dull or muted.
I thought about reaching out to Istvan to ask if he had something else that lent itself to this design…or even ask if he could build a custom 8” field coil for them.
I already have a pair of the Fostex T90A super tweeters that I got years ago to play with some FF165K I picked up in the swap meet that had their aluminum dust caps removed and phase plugs installed.
When I try the 208EZ I will be using the T90A with them.
I’ve collected several other 8” drivers that I wouldn’t bother trying (Lowther, Tang Band, Lii Audio)
The only other driver I had my eye on was the Fostex 206ESR. I haven’t found a lot of information about it except that it seems to have been a premium version of the 206E that descended from the original 208 Sigma with whizzer cone?
I haven’t read any comments about the ESR yet regarding its sound quality in comparison to the standard 206E or the newer 208EZ.
I’m sitting and listening to some quiet morning music now…David Russell playing Giuliani on guitar…these speakers play it as naturally as breathing.
Last night I was listening to Bjork’s Vespertine album and I was astonished at how effortlessly they handled that.
Not heard that one, nut we put 166eSR in Victor, 166eN in the same box did not perform as well.
dave
Thanks for chiming in Dave.
I have to say, this experience is making me feel like everything I have tried to do with my Oris horns and open baffles over the last decade is amateurish in comparison.
I can’t help but want to tinker, but listening to these makes me feel foolish for thinking about it.
You and Scott really accomplished something special with this design.
Further listening this AM:
Lila Downs…Paloma Negra practically brought me to tears.
Tsuyoshi Yamamoto Trio playing Midnight Sugar…just WOW!
I have to say, this experience is making me feel like everything I have tried to do with my Oris horns and open baffles over the last decade is amateurish in comparison.
I can’t help but want to tinker, but listening to these makes me feel foolish for thinking about it.
You and Scott really accomplished something special with this design.
Further listening this AM:
Lila Downs…Paloma Negra practically brought me to tears.
Tsuyoshi Yamamoto Trio playing Midnight Sugar…just WOW!
The ES-R should go in fine. That was one of the old limited edition monsters (well, in the context of Fostex) with the FE206E cone dropped into the FE208ESigma basket, with custom suspension, a silver/copper alloy VC and a motor more powerful than a 1970s military dictatorship (same context, and other forms of dictatorship available 😉 ).
This morning’s selection was down right spooky…like she was just sitting on the other side of the room playing while I sipped coffee.
One thing that may have contributed a lot to my results was reading more than once recently some posts by GM where he stated that his best results with these single driver fullrange speakers have been achieved by toeing them in so they cross right in front of his listening position.
I had tried a variety of speaker placements and toeing in, but never as much as crossing them in front of me.
Regardless, it’s obvious I’m thrilled with the results and can’t stop gushing about them.
I have a line on a pair of ESR…maybe I’m getting carried away…😉
One thing that may have contributed a lot to my results was reading more than once recently some posts by GM where he stated that his best results with these single driver fullrange speakers have been achieved by toeing them in so they cross right in front of his listening position.
I had tried a variety of speaker placements and toeing in, but never as much as crossing them in front of me.
Regardless, it’s obvious I’m thrilled with the results and can’t stop gushing about them.
I have a line on a pair of ESR…maybe I’m getting carried away…😉
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While I was obsessing over in the Sonido thread about whether I could get a pair of field coils to work in the Kirishimas these showed up on the front steps.
They appear lightly used…there’s a little wear in the screw holes and evidence of solder on the tabs.
Got them for less than the cost of one new unit shipped.
Unfortunately, the mounting pattern is ever so slightly off from the 4 holes in the cabinet for the 206nv.
I’m assuming that the 206esr will have this same 208ez pattern as well since it was mentioned earlier that it uses the same frame.
Looks like I’ll have to make some kind of supra baffle/adapter plate to mount them if I don’t want to screw up the boxes trying to mount them directly.
Also need to figure out how I want to mount the T90A…and I thought my speaker tinkering had come to an end! 😉
They appear lightly used…there’s a little wear in the screw holes and evidence of solder on the tabs.
Got them for less than the cost of one new unit shipped.
Unfortunately, the mounting pattern is ever so slightly off from the 4 holes in the cabinet for the 206nv.
I’m assuming that the 206esr will have this same 208ez pattern as well since it was mentioned earlier that it uses the same frame.
Looks like I’ll have to make some kind of supra baffle/adapter plate to mount them if I don’t want to screw up the boxes trying to mount them directly.
Also need to figure out how I want to mount the T90A…and I thought my speaker tinkering had come to an end! 😉
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Look Ma!
Horns and Toobz!!!
I’m not sure how long I’ve been waiting to live out this childhood dream.
I bought the Quicksilver Horn Monos used almost 15 years ago.
I had only limited success piecing together Oris front horns with them. The directivity in that setup drove me nuts.
Technically my Tannoys in the main system load the compression driver with the woofer cone…and the Quicksilver amps do sound excellent with them…but now I have big honkin’ horns!
I’m going back through familiar material.
Both my F2J and these Quicksilver amps are excellent sounding…especially with this type of speaker…dead silent between tracks.
I’m interested to see if the tube amps take the edge off of some passages that result in shoutiness in the upper midrange and whether they’ll fill out the bass more.
Better than shoveling snow 😉
Horns and Toobz!!!
I’m not sure how long I’ve been waiting to live out this childhood dream.
I bought the Quicksilver Horn Monos used almost 15 years ago.
I had only limited success piecing together Oris front horns with them. The directivity in that setup drove me nuts.
Technically my Tannoys in the main system load the compression driver with the woofer cone…and the Quicksilver amps do sound excellent with them…but now I have big honkin’ horns!
I’m going back through familiar material.
Both my F2J and these Quicksilver amps are excellent sounding…especially with this type of speaker…dead silent between tracks.
I’m interested to see if the tube amps take the edge off of some passages that result in shoutiness in the upper midrange and whether they’ll fill out the bass more.
Better than shoveling snow 😉
Attachments
Hi Dave
I’m wondering if you’ve referring to cone treatment, phase plugs and the likes of enabling?
…or perhaps some sort if shelving filter?
I wonder if any of it can help tame Miles’ trumpet without making the speakers sound dull…as it can really irritate my ears at times…and not just with this type of driver.
Regardless…I had wanted to reach out and ask your opinion about my 206E.
I had left them in a basement storage closet in the Oris horns with blankets wrapped over them for a period if time.
I actually have a very dry basement.
However, it still resulted in what might have been the beginnings of some mildew on one of the driver cones (pic).
It’s not bad…but given that I have so many of these Fostex drivers to play with it is almost begging me to try my hand at modifying it.
In the past, I applied one of your recommendations of using modge podge on some little Fostex drivers.
One driver had gotten a slight crease in the edge of the cone due to the hardware getting in the wrong place inside its box.
I figured a coating with a little moisture would cause the paper to expand and then tighten up like when I used to spray water on the tissue covering my model airplanes when I was a kid. It worked perfectly.
Anyway, I thought adding a coat or two of modge podge with some kind of opaque white or golden/orange pigment would soothe my OCD.
I might be game to try my hand at surgery for phase plugs.
Not sure you have any to sell, but I do have an old lathe I could make some on if I had a template.
Enabling might be a bit much for me…especially if I didn’t have a stencil to do it.
The passive filtering I have very little experience with.
In the past I relied on my B4 to set a shelf filter for my Lowthers.
I have to look at the B4 manual. Maybe its possible to use the shelving feature with no high pass filter so the drivers are still fed a full range signal.
I’m interested to hear your thoughts.
I’m wondering if you’ve referring to cone treatment, phase plugs and the likes of enabling?
…or perhaps some sort if shelving filter?
I wonder if any of it can help tame Miles’ trumpet without making the speakers sound dull…as it can really irritate my ears at times…and not just with this type of driver.
Regardless…I had wanted to reach out and ask your opinion about my 206E.
I had left them in a basement storage closet in the Oris horns with blankets wrapped over them for a period if time.
I actually have a very dry basement.
However, it still resulted in what might have been the beginnings of some mildew on one of the driver cones (pic).
It’s not bad…but given that I have so many of these Fostex drivers to play with it is almost begging me to try my hand at modifying it.
In the past, I applied one of your recommendations of using modge podge on some little Fostex drivers.
One driver had gotten a slight crease in the edge of the cone due to the hardware getting in the wrong place inside its box.
I figured a coating with a little moisture would cause the paper to expand and then tighten up like when I used to spray water on the tissue covering my model airplanes when I was a kid. It worked perfectly.
Anyway, I thought adding a coat or two of modge podge with some kind of opaque white or golden/orange pigment would soothe my OCD.
I might be game to try my hand at surgery for phase plugs.
Not sure you have any to sell, but I do have an old lathe I could make some on if I had a template.
Enabling might be a bit much for me…especially if I didn’t have a stencil to do it.
The passive filtering I have very little experience with.
In the past I relied on my B4 to set a shelf filter for my Lowthers.
I have to look at the B4 manual. Maybe its possible to use the shelving feature with no high pass filter so the drivers are still fed a full range signal.
I’m interested to hear your thoughts.
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Yes, the stuff that works to quell the ringing is not EnABL, but the pretreatments.
dave