Well the WO24, MW16TX and T25b are also all three different material, aren't they ? It could actually be argued that the aluminum cone SB15NBAC would be "closer" in character to the berylium T25B 😉
But as far as I am concerned, I think people in general put far too much emphasis on cone material instead of actual performance. There are cases of rigid paper cone drivers breaking up more violently than aluminium cone ones. In this comparative test, the paper Satari WO24P and Faital 10RS350 have worst cone break-up than the aluminium Dayton RS270 and Scanspeak 26w4867 for instance.
Furthermore, if drivers are comfortably used in their pistonic range with steep crossover slopes, I think cone material becomes quite irrelevant compared to motor, suspension etc.
But that is just my opinion 😛
No. If we compare the measurement between the SB15BNAC an SB17MFC, the issues for each driver is easy to deal with, and allow me to explain.
A 4-way loudspeaker allow a driver to be used in a limited bandwidth and done right, distortion will be limited. The idea is to limited the amount of distortion present (HD and IMD) by limiting the bandwidth.
And by limiting the bandwidth, you need to increase the number of divers that individually are capable of performing within the designated bandwidth. If we on top of that, decrease the size of the MR driver,
the cone breakup is pushed up in frequency and even further away from the XO or center frequency, and that is exactly what we want. MR drivers does not have to be larger than 4-5 in for a 4-way, since the
the bass region is handed over to the MW driver.
Our hearing isn't sensitive at lower frequency - see equal loudness - so as we move from the higher octaves, the dissimilar material issues should decrease. Paper and PP drivers performance are very good and for the woofer,
the cone material mater less than its linear performance, that is to say excursion without much distortion present. The rest has to come from the cabinet and filter, which either enhance or decrease any issues in the driver
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Scholl, of course cone material is not everything, but in this case NBAC and MFC, and T25B...... I not T25B sound very well, WO24P as well, and have also experiences with SB17 line....
One needs to build and listen a lot of projects to get certain sense for the drivers and their character, to be able to estimate good combos also based on sonic signatures.
Choosing the drivers based on measured performance is just a very beginning.
I am far from judging driver based on cone material only.
One needs to build and listen a lot of projects to get certain sense for the drivers and their character, to be able to estimate good combos also based on sonic signatures.
Choosing the drivers based on measured performance is just a very beginning.
I am far from judging driver based on cone material only.
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Woofer/Midrange/Tweeter - paper/carbon/alu looks well thought out to me.
-Paper cone with woofer will work pistonic up to about 800Hz or so. Crossover point with midrange will be lower than that, and there is no severe breakup to fight with as would be with alu cone woofer.
-Carbon cone for midrange also makes sense. It will not suffer from severe breakup at higher frequencies and will work pistonic in the intended passband without 1kHz artefacts characteristic with paper cones.
-Beryllium dome tweeter with resonance over 30kHz will work pistonic with resonance far above 20kHz and good distortion profile below 20kHz.
-Paper cone with woofer will work pistonic up to about 800Hz or so. Crossover point with midrange will be lower than that, and there is no severe breakup to fight with as would be with alu cone woofer.
-Carbon cone for midrange also makes sense. It will not suffer from severe breakup at higher frequencies and will work pistonic in the intended passband without 1kHz artefacts characteristic with paper cones.
-Beryllium dome tweeter with resonance over 30kHz will work pistonic with resonance far above 20kHz and good distortion profile below 20kHz.
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I think the "mystery" surrounding how drivers sound is less pronounced as we gather information of what exactly is the determining factors of driver performance. Now hear me out. I get that drivers vary in performance and
for better or worse, much of the perceived performance comes from the HD and IMD. If HD performance match another driver, spite it using a different cone material, they will perform similar. They have to since their distortion is similar.
Hifcompass is worth its weight in gold when it comes to understanding this part and is the source for my understanding of why certain Accuton diamond tweeters sound sharp - elevated 3rd order distortion.
I see there is typo in my previous post. I know the sound of T25B and other mentioned drivers well.
I would not call it mystery, and even with all the measurements we are still far from understanding why certain driver sounds the way it sounds. Perfect HD is not everything....
Of course we are closer to understanding, with all of Toole/Olive/Harman etc work, Klippel NFS, CTA-2034A,....but still far away from understanding.
I would not call it mystery, and even with all the measurements we are still far from understanding why certain driver sounds the way it sounds. Perfect HD is not everything....
Of course we are closer to understanding, with all of Toole/Olive/Harman etc work, Klippel NFS, CTA-2034A,....but still far away from understanding.
Another midwoofer that I partially forget is the Wavecor WF182BD03, that is a nice 7" with a well behaved performance.
1st way: Satori WO24 (P) - 20hz to 160Hz (3 octaves)
2nd way: Wavecor WF182 (P) - 160Hz to 640Hz (2 octaves)
3rd way: SBA SB15NBAC (M) - 640Hz to 2.5Hz (2 octaves)
4th way: BlieSMa T25B-6 (M) - 2.5Hz to 40.9kHz (4 octaves)
The rest is technical aspects.
1st way: Satori WO24 (P) - 20hz to 160Hz (3 octaves)
2nd way: Wavecor WF182 (P) - 160Hz to 640Hz (2 octaves)
3rd way: SBA SB15NBAC (M) - 640Hz to 2.5Hz (2 octaves)
4th way: BlieSMa T25B-6 (M) - 2.5Hz to 40.9kHz (4 octaves)
The rest is technical aspects.
If you were going with subwoofers, something along the lines of that 4 way might be worth it, but if its all going in the same cabinet, I would push the WO24 up about 1 more octave (maybe not even that far) and then go to the SB15NBAC from that point to about 2.5khz. I was actually thinking of trying one of the hard cone SB15 and that BlieSMa together myself.
I know... 100 people would have 100 different opinions but that is my 2 cents. 🙂
I know... 100 people would have 100 different opinions but that is my 2 cents. 🙂
merlinx76. I am targeting a relatively narrow baffle with the WO24 as side firing dual opposing to cancel cabinet resonances. Meaning the WF182 has to provide some decent visceral sensation. So 3 drivers on the front and 2 drivers on the side. 🙂
Using a Dayton RS125 between 400hz and 2kHz - works great with LR24 and first breakup at around 10kHz and excellent dispersion too - which is even nicer when used with Seas DXT.
Which easy accessible waveguide is used with Bliesma, to create a better integration with the midrange?
Which easy accessible waveguide is used with Bliesma, to create a better integration with the midrange?
There are generic once being use and I remember a thread going over that. Don't remember where but search for it and it will pop up 🙂
In terms of what I will do, I will apply a simple strategy. See, most WG's are "designed" like a horn, heavy compression at the start. If the goal is to push the sound forward to reach far, then yes, one need to do that.
The downside of using that strategy in a home environment is that sometimes, there are those who hear this as a throaty and almost nasally sound. It is very distracting and personally, I don't like it and I don't see the
point in mechanically trying to increase the output of the tweeter to something like 95-96dB or more, followed by lowering the output to match that of the mid-range, followed by a sharp cut-off filter which is down tens
of dB at 20kH. This is counterproductive in my mind. I know some people use PA drivers in the home due to high efficiency, which is fine. But watts are cheap these days...
"All horns are waveguides but not all waveguides are horns".
So, back to the simple strategy. A WG have two functions.
1: To mate the two voice coils to co exist in the same vertical plane which corrects the time domain. OR the acoustic centra
2: To mate the individual drivers dispersion <<< this is crucial to obtain a seamless transition.
This then requires a purposefully designed WG which match the drivers at hand. There is one other engineer that supports the design of a simplified WG with focus on the two points and nothing else, and it achieves among the
best transitions I have ever heard.
😉
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Augerpro is the one you want to know:
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/mul...aveguides-cnc-3d-printing-67.html#post6419443
Waveguides | somasonus
Bliesma T25B | somasonus
Download the STL file, throw it at a 3D print shop, bolt in the tweeters and away you go.
I threw some change at his gofundme for all the good work.
Thank you both 🙂
I do have to think about it, since I do not know how much better sound the Bliesma will bring me, compared to the DXT. I might also have to mate it with a possibly better midrange.... hmmm.... choices 😀
I do have to think about it, since I do not know how much better sound the Bliesma will bring me, compared to the DXT. I might also have to mate it with a possibly better midrange.... hmmm.... choices 😀
If your budget allows for Bliesma, do not hesitate. Bliesma is big step to better sound quality.
Just noticed that Purifi is readying themselves for the mid-range drivers release. For the time being, they are doing as much as possible with their 6.5" size which makes sense. A 5" and 8" is in the works and it is the 5" which is very interesting. Anyway, the 6.5" 4ohm version
has a sensitivity of 92.8dB (2.83V) - that is outstanding I must say. PTT6.5M04-NFA-01 - PURIFI
has a sensitivity of 92.8dB (2.83V) - that is outstanding I must say. PTT6.5M04-NFA-01 - PURIFI
I would love to see a high-powered 2.5" driver. I feel like there's a niche there that most 3" drivers cannot fulfill.
Unfortunately its a 4 ohm driver so 1w/m will be around 89dB. I wish they provided more specs. What size VC does it have?