There’s a no screw/faceplate version ( D7608/920000 ) that’s 113mm wide that one could use with a 250mL ceramic cup; heavily stuffed with sheep’s wool that would probably extend the bottom end a hundred hertz or so.
But the main curiosity is that off axis, although very smooth, it starts to beam past about 2-3Khz.
I guess this geometry was made prior to the days of FEM.
I find it hard to justify the use of a driver for only 2 octaves. Unless I’m trying to join a 12-15” woofer to a tweeter.
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Member
Joined 2003
HDS-P830990 (6.5"), HDS-P830991 (5,25") and HDS-P830992 (4") are alive and doing well. These are the glass fiber family, the paper and PP are and have been discontinued.
PMC uses the HDS-GF family in their Twenty5i series which basically got a "new" SEAS tweeter (19TFF-1). I have heard the Twenty5 series, pre 19mm and considered them to be more than okay.
Not top shelf but certainly a well playing loudspeaker. They are not without issues, but overall a good platform for the money.
Naturally, I would build my own speakers, but that is besides the point
PMC uses the HDS-GF family in their Twenty5i series which basically got a "new" SEAS tweeter (19TFF-1). I have heard the Twenty5 series, pre 19mm and considered them to be more than okay.
Not top shelf but certainly a well playing loudspeaker. They are not without issues, but overall a good platform for the money.
Naturally, I would build my own speakers, but that is besides the point
Member
Joined 2003
That's quite the collection you have there!
Some 10+ years ago when I decided I knew enough to competently design my own speaker and crossover, I designed a 2-way using the 8" 830884 woofer and the HDS 810921 tweeter. At that time the HDS tweeter was a new product that tested extraordinarily well by Zaph. Today it is still one of my favourite dome tweeters. The speaker performed rather well, and I enjoyed it for years and used is as a point of reference for listening comparison of my following builds. However, my woodworking skills were not great and the finish of the speaker wasn't great either (acrylic wall paint with a "crackle" texture).
Fast forward to today and it wasn't that long ago that I found a pair of the 5" 810882 midwoofers for sale, so I decided I would rebuild my old 2-way speaker as a 3-way. To keep something original I am modifying the existing cabinet to fit a new baffle and base, and keeping with the original style I am even painting the cabinet with acrylic wall paint, but the baffle and base are a nice acacia countertop boards finished with Tung oil.
Some photos of the original speaker progress of the redesign, I am just starting to finish the wood and priming the cabinets, so probably 2 weeks away from taking measurements for design.
Some 10+ years ago when I decided I knew enough to competently design my own speaker and crossover, I designed a 2-way using the 8" 830884 woofer and the HDS 810921 tweeter. At that time the HDS tweeter was a new product that tested extraordinarily well by Zaph. Today it is still one of my favourite dome tweeters. The speaker performed rather well, and I enjoyed it for years and used is as a point of reference for listening comparison of my following builds. However, my woodworking skills were not great and the finish of the speaker wasn't great either (acrylic wall paint with a "crackle" texture).
Fast forward to today and it wasn't that long ago that I found a pair of the 5" 810882 midwoofers for sale, so I decided I would rebuild my old 2-way speaker as a 3-way. To keep something original I am modifying the existing cabinet to fit a new baffle and base, and keeping with the original style I am even painting the cabinet with acrylic wall paint, but the baffle and base are a nice acacia countertop boards finished with Tung oil.
Some photos of the original speaker progress of the redesign, I am just starting to finish the wood and priming the cabinets, so probably 2 weeks away from taking measurements for design.
Attachments
After the Tymphany takeover and relocation of Peerless and Vifa manufacturing, many Peerless drivers got slimmed down. As far as I can tell the HDS-Ex were the best of that line, as far as motors goes; and they got cut. All the XLS/XXLS drivers got cut too.
Then lately Vifa NE became Peerless NE and now even many have disappeared or MOQ of 500 pieces.
Never again Tymphany!
I’m not going to build a 500.10 system. I’m going back to Scan-Speak or Audio Technology.
If you want high value go the Discovery line, and for everything else get there’s plenty to choose from.
Then lately Vifa NE became Peerless NE and now even many have disappeared or MOQ of 500 pieces.
Never again Tymphany!
I’m not going to build a 500.10 system. I’m going back to Scan-Speak or Audio Technology.
If you want high value go the Discovery line, and for everything else get there’s plenty to choose from.
I think that it is a part of their state strategy. They don't want to sell stuff cheap anymore. Or, they'll sell it cheap, but it has to be a quantity to be worth the effort. It maybe is bad for small diy-ers but it is good for Tymphany and for large quantity buyers. Kinda protect the large quantity buyers from loosing profit. I imagine that most of us would buy everything needed for DIY KiiThree just to see how far can we get - and the price of parts (without electronics) is around 400 euros for 8 woofers, 2 mids and 2 tweets.
The thing that is bugging me is, how are they able to stop dealers from getting a batch of 500 and sell them by piece. There are some very interesting drivers at PartsExpress from Tymphany with moq-500. I'm guessing that woofers from KiiThree would sell like hot cakes if you could buy them even at moq-10.
The thing that is bugging me is, how are they able to stop dealers from getting a batch of 500 and sell them by piece. There are some very interesting drivers at PartsExpress from Tymphany with moq-500. I'm guessing that woofers from KiiThree would sell like hot cakes if you could buy them even at moq-10.
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Well the takeover was sometime in 2005 or earlier IIRC.
In 2006 DIYers North American DIYers John Krutke and Mark Krawiec we’re invited to Tymphany HQ in California to give some feedback. They were probably selected because apart from being great guys, had published prolifically on their websites and were active in the DIY community.
Zaph|Audio
and the discontinuation of products started then.
Since the Vifa NE introduced in 2012; no new 4-8” mid/woofers at all for the past decade.
But many 3” or less “twoofers” When I read the Loudspeaker Industry periodicals like Voice Coil- this is where it’s been heading in the last decade. And the next decade will continue to be of micro speakers and ear speakers etc. These probably outsell your traditional 6.5” two way by a factor of 100 to one, if not 10 to one.
If you look at the team at Tymphany it’s not clear if any of the original team remain:
Our Team - Tymphany
Tymphany currently produce 6.5M speaker units per month.
Now many drivers from the Peerless NE line and X/XLS are starting to disappear from the usual channels.
What’s on the horizon?
In 2006 DIYers North American DIYers John Krutke and Mark Krawiec we’re invited to Tymphany HQ in California to give some feedback. They were probably selected because apart from being great guys, had published prolifically on their websites and were active in the DIY community.
Zaph|Audio
and the discontinuation of products started then.
Since the Vifa NE introduced in 2012; no new 4-8” mid/woofers at all for the past decade.
But many 3” or less “twoofers” When I read the Loudspeaker Industry periodicals like Voice Coil- this is where it’s been heading in the last decade. And the next decade will continue to be of micro speakers and ear speakers etc. These probably outsell your traditional 6.5” two way by a factor of 100 to one, if not 10 to one.
If you look at the team at Tymphany it’s not clear if any of the original team remain:
Our Team - Tymphany
Tymphany currently produce 6.5M speaker units per month.
Now many drivers from the Peerless NE line and X/XLS are starting to disappear from the usual channels.
What’s on the horizon?
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It is very debatable if the world needs any morer 4"-8" cone drivers. Some of the drivers HDS and NE lines are still on top of the game even after 10-15 years. Other have introduced new drivers and made me think less of them because of it (Seas being prime example of dissapointment). Scan Speak introduced Illuminator and Elipticor but Revelator is still the most used and well spoken line of drivers, even after some 15-20 years.
We are raving about new technologies but it is very questionable if there would be any audible differences between Revelator and Elipticor transducers in double blind listening tests - when equalized to the same response.
Brands like Kartesian and Purifi are trying to move the notch a bit forward but time will tell if it was futile or not.
On the other hand, production of headphone and microdrivers are blooming. Soundbars, IEM and small BT speakers are selling like crazy because they are small and mobile. New Google Nest even measures good. So, audiophiles depend now on boutique production and engineering and PRO segment - PA and SM.
Few years ago at JBL most of the guys who were in charge of drivers and xover design were laid off. Alexander Voishvillo and his team remained since SM belongs to the PRO division. They earn more from car audio and JBL pill BT speakers than any line of studio monitors (3, 7 or M2 as a pinnacle of their engineering). And instead of pushing forward, they've just released retro line of loudspeakers which probably measures slightly better than 50 years ago, but they bring nothing new. To me it looks like all the effort at JBL HiFi division is on keeping that mediocre performance from deteriorating while lowering the cost of production as much as possible.
We are raving about new technologies but it is very questionable if there would be any audible differences between Revelator and Elipticor transducers in double blind listening tests - when equalized to the same response.
Brands like Kartesian and Purifi are trying to move the notch a bit forward but time will tell if it was futile or not.
On the other hand, production of headphone and microdrivers are blooming. Soundbars, IEM and small BT speakers are selling like crazy because they are small and mobile. New Google Nest even measures good. So, audiophiles depend now on boutique production and engineering and PRO segment - PA and SM.
Few years ago at JBL most of the guys who were in charge of drivers and xover design were laid off. Alexander Voishvillo and his team remained since SM belongs to the PRO division. They earn more from car audio and JBL pill BT speakers than any line of studio monitors (3, 7 or M2 as a pinnacle of their engineering). And instead of pushing forward, they've just released retro line of loudspeakers which probably measures slightly better than 50 years ago, but they bring nothing new. To me it looks like all the effort at JBL HiFi division is on keeping that mediocre performance from deteriorating while lowering the cost of production as much as possible.
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There is a thread in this forum IIRC that tested a number of "midband" drivers with frequency response EQ'd to be identical and a limited band of e.g. 300-3kHz. The conclusion was that they all sounded the same, or could not be distinguished from each other, for a given SPL level. I don't think that the experiment was limited to "boutique" drivers such as those from the Revelator and Elipticor lines.
"Better quality" drivers like the Ellipticor, etc. will primarily distinguish themselves under duress - a wide bandwidth, high input power, etc. where they will be more graceful in terms of various distortion signatures. As the study showed, this difference may not really be easy to "hear" unless you know what to listen for and/or have a critical ear for it.