Hi all,
Ive become fascinated in the technology that is involved in coating tweeters to help reduce their resonance and/or even their frequency response.
My question is:
I would like to experiment with tweeter doping (i know i know, not too liked around here), in doing so, what are the most recommended doping/soft dome coatings recommended out their? (not too crazy about water soluable materials, i want it to last- ie no mod podge). Eventually i would like to construct my own soft-dome tweeters but i cant seem to find out this type of information anywhere.
In particular, i prefer the Dynaudio soft domes. To me, they have the perfect balance of acoustical characteristics.
So, does anyone know any good doping/coating materials used for the construction of lightweight soft dome tweeters similar to the Dynaudio ESOTAR's?
Ive become fascinated in the technology that is involved in coating tweeters to help reduce their resonance and/or even their frequency response.
My question is:
I would like to experiment with tweeter doping (i know i know, not too liked around here), in doing so, what are the most recommended doping/soft dome coatings recommended out their? (not too crazy about water soluable materials, i want it to last- ie no mod podge). Eventually i would like to construct my own soft-dome tweeters but i cant seem to find out this type of information anywhere.
In particular, i prefer the Dynaudio soft domes. To me, they have the perfect balance of acoustical characteristics.
So, does anyone know any good doping/coating materials used for the construction of lightweight soft dome tweeters similar to the Dynaudio ESOTAR's?
Hi,
Formulation of coatings is kept very hush-hush,
you will not find any information (AFAIK).
Also note most domes are "impregnated" not coated,
the matrix and the coating not being didtinguishable.
Seas Sonolex (used for soft domes) for example
comes in prefabricated sheeting and is not coated.
/Sreten.
Formulation of coatings is kept very hush-hush,
you will not find any information (AFAIK).
Also note most domes are "impregnated" not coated,
the matrix and the coating not being didtinguishable.
Seas Sonolex (used for soft domes) for example
comes in prefabricated sheeting and is not coated.
/Sreten.
Sreten is correct, the goopy stuff in the Dynaudio domes is done via impregnation. An external coating will more often degrade things rather than help.
Choosing a coating systematically starts with defining precisely what you want the coating to do. And that will be different from driver to driver; the idea that there is a "universal" coating that will benefit all drivers is nonsense. Commonly believed nonsense, but still nonsense.
Choosing a coating systematically starts with defining precisely what you want the coating to do. And that will be different from driver to driver; the idea that there is a "universal" coating that will benefit all drivers is nonsense. Commonly believed nonsense, but still nonsense.
Tho i agree, some of the coating is integrated, it certainly isnt all of it. Go to the Dynaudio website, under car audio, there are a number of promotional videos of the in-house driver production (quite low budget, but it still shows the process they go thru). You can see the Dynaudio soft dome tweeters being elivated thru a white liquid, then put on a tray to dry.
Apparently, the coatings are used to reduce excess energy at certain frequencies, but not to eliminate "colorations" of certain materials.
It is a myth that the materials of the cones or domes speakers each have a characteristic sound?
According to this article it is false ...
Drivers and the Myth of Tweeter Dome Materials | AxiomAudioBlog
Incidentally, I have written these days several times a support of Audax to orient me about buying a dome spare tweeter TW034X0, (I do not want parts of dubious origin, want legitimate), and I have not received any. It seems that the company has been sold, but new buyers are not doing well ....
It is a myth that the materials of the cones or domes speakers each have a characteristic sound?
According to this article it is false ...
Drivers and the Myth of Tweeter Dome Materials | AxiomAudioBlog
Incidentally, I have written these days several times a support of Audax to orient me about buying a dome spare tweeter TW034X0, (I do not want parts of dubious origin, want legitimate), and I have not received any. It seems that the company has been sold, but new buyers are not doing well ....
It's water based, but opanol - that I think is a 50:50 mixture of ethanol and water - provides an outstanding doping compound for cotton midrange domes and therefore likely tweeters also one suspects.
As recently revealed in another thread ("Better dome midrange design than ATC?"), one trick you can employ is to avoid using any dye material to colour the raw resin impregnated cotton domes available for purchase.
I believe this allows a better absorption of the damping compound into the fibres and produces measurably and (to my ears at least) audibly better results. Just they do not look particularly nice (to anyone's eyes I suspect).
As recently revealed in another thread ("Better dome midrange design than ATC?"), one trick you can employ is to avoid using any dye material to colour the raw resin impregnated cotton domes available for purchase.
I believe this allows a better absorption of the damping compound into the fibres and produces measurably and (to my ears at least) audibly better results. Just they do not look particularly nice (to anyone's eyes I suspect).
I recently had to recoat a pair of silk(?) dome tweeters whose sound level output had dropped considerably, the weave of the silk was quite open and the doping compound had almost disappeared, once recoated, the sound level was back to an acceptable level, the tweeters looked like they were an early Morel type (no model number)
cheers, Arthur
cheers, Arthur
Last edited:
So the legendary C-37 would not suit tweeters? Has anyone tried?
C37 Acoustics Dieter Ennemoser - Violin Maker & Acoustic Researcher
C37 Acoustics Dieter Ennemoser - Violin Maker & Acoustic Researcher
Sorry but I insist this Off Topic, but perhaps the right place because it has been revived this old thread.
The legendary Audax tweeter TW034X0 is manufactured takes several years. It was used by several brands of speakers, including Rogers, Spendor, etc. (BBC adopted them for their studio monitors, I do not know if you still use them)
I'm looking at the possibility of having a dome spare, RW034X0, but I have no answer Audax.
The company has been purchased by Société AAC Acoustiques Applications of Composites, and on the website there is a contact form. I had no answer to two attempts and it took several days.
AUDAX, LA PASSION DU HAUT-PARLEUR
I wanted to advise me how to acquire the original spare, the latest version brings a coating (it is very sticky, and also very problematic to clean adhesions).
The web offer genuine parts but the place of origin is China. doping the coating is not visible. Only clean fabric. Leery that are legitimate.
AUDAX TW034XO Tweeters Replacement Voice coil Diaphragm for Rogers LS5/9 5/8 Use
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/audax-voice-coils/audax-rw034x0-voice-coil-for-tw034x0/
AUDAX RW034X0 Replacement Coil for HD 13D34H & TW034X0
Audax Replacement Voice Coils Rw034x0 Used On Legacy Audio New | Allen Organ Company
He would have to buy two to sound the same, because there is no doubt that they will not like sticky Audax ..
Any comments that could help me, please?
The legendary Audax tweeter TW034X0 is manufactured takes several years. It was used by several brands of speakers, including Rogers, Spendor, etc. (BBC adopted them for their studio monitors, I do not know if you still use them)
I'm looking at the possibility of having a dome spare, RW034X0, but I have no answer Audax.
The company has been purchased by Société AAC Acoustiques Applications of Composites, and on the website there is a contact form. I had no answer to two attempts and it took several days.
AUDAX, LA PASSION DU HAUT-PARLEUR
I wanted to advise me how to acquire the original spare, the latest version brings a coating (it is very sticky, and also very problematic to clean adhesions).
The web offer genuine parts but the place of origin is China. doping the coating is not visible. Only clean fabric. Leery that are legitimate.
AUDAX TW034XO Tweeters Replacement Voice coil Diaphragm for Rogers LS5/9 5/8 Use
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/audax-voice-coils/audax-rw034x0-voice-coil-for-tw034x0/
AUDAX RW034X0 Replacement Coil for HD 13D34H & TW034X0
Audax Replacement Voice Coils Rw034x0 Used On Legacy Audio New | Allen Organ Company
He would have to buy two to sound the same, because there is no doubt that they will not like sticky Audax ..
Any comments that could help me, please?
Has anyone tried applying pure gold leaf to a tweeter dome?
This may be a 'non-starter', but it seems to me that as the characteristics of a dome change depending on the degree of 'doping', this is probably partly due to the reduction of resonance, partly due to changes in rigidity, and partly due to the percentage of weave which is 'open' and therefore does nothing.
I would expect that if a tweeter dome can be made of aluminium, titanium, beryllium, act, as is often the case, then it might be worth experimenting with gold leaf applied to the dome.
It might give a slightly brighter sound, maybe slightly more efficient if it moves more air due to a lower percentage of holes.
And it might sound worse than before.
Any thoughts, anyone?
This may be a 'non-starter', but it seems to me that as the characteristics of a dome change depending on the degree of 'doping', this is probably partly due to the reduction of resonance, partly due to changes in rigidity, and partly due to the percentage of weave which is 'open' and therefore does nothing.
I would expect that if a tweeter dome can be made of aluminium, titanium, beryllium, act, as is often the case, then it might be worth experimenting with gold leaf applied to the dome.
It might give a slightly brighter sound, maybe slightly more efficient if it moves more air due to a lower percentage of holes.
And it might sound worse than before.
Any thoughts, anyone?
Personally I doubt gold leaf would add any rigidity.
PVA glue hardens to a flexible but strong structure. In grade school we were required to have a plastic box to keep our markers, pencils, pens ect inside. The top of the plastic box had a square molded indentation. We would fill it with PVA (white school glue) and let it harden for a few days before prying it out. They became flexible plastic book markers lol.
What I think would be interesting is doping with powdered graphite. I'm almost certain fostex does this with their FFxxWk series, and have my suspicions that Zu Audio does this as well. Lots of research is going into graphene, which is just a flat structure of interconnected single atom graphite. Graphite sure does have a lot of interesting properties... powdered graphite is one hell of a lubricant.
"The acoustic and thermal properties of graphite are highly anisotropic, since phonons propagate quickly along the tightly-bound planes, but are slower to travel from one plane to another." -Wikipedia
PVA glue hardens to a flexible but strong structure. In grade school we were required to have a plastic box to keep our markers, pencils, pens ect inside. The top of the plastic box had a square molded indentation. We would fill it with PVA (white school glue) and let it harden for a few days before prying it out. They became flexible plastic book markers lol.
What I think would be interesting is doping with powdered graphite. I'm almost certain fostex does this with their FFxxWk series, and have my suspicions that Zu Audio does this as well. Lots of research is going into graphene, which is just a flat structure of interconnected single atom graphite. Graphite sure does have a lot of interesting properties... powdered graphite is one hell of a lubricant.
"The acoustic and thermal properties of graphite are highly anisotropic, since phonons propagate quickly along the tightly-bound planes, but are slower to travel from one plane to another." -Wikipedia
Last edited:
I just thought that as it is SO thin, and therefore very light, and easy to apply (I've used pure gold leaf before), it might form a better non-impervious layer on top of the fabric & doping and therefore when the dome vibrates it would move the air in front of it better than it would if it were a 'tea strainer' type dome with microscopic holes.
Doping, by the way is usually done with Opanol.
I wasn't suggesting the gold leaf would be rigid or add rigidity. I still think this could work.....
Doping, by the way is usually done with Opanol.
I wasn't suggesting the gold leaf would be rigid or add rigidity. I still think this could work.....
So I see only a few real answers here, my tweeters work but the surface is cracked, lots of light shines right through it. As far as this thread we have opanol and elmer’s glue (maybe mixed with some graphite powder?) come on weather you call it doping recoating or whatever are these all the answers? How about thinned vulcanized rubber? Clear coat? These are silk dome 8 ohm 90dB and I can experiment. I do kinda like the school glue and graphite idea I hear it’s a mess. I guess paint on is my preferred method, ideas? Even crazy ones?
Soft come tweeters don't have holes in. The fabric is completely sealed.