Hello, I’m after a wide-band driver that will play from 150hz through to 15khz, as that’s the limit of what I can hear, but the key for me is that it’s smooth or controlled through the sibilance range as I am super sensitive to harsh S’s to the point where I get a headache very quickly if it’s not controlled which ruins music listening for me.
The problem is I don’t have the luxury of being able to demo lots of different full range drivers till I find the ones that suit my taste.
Are there particular drivers or types to stay away from or are there any clues to look out for in the published frequency graphs?
These speakers will be used for relaxing too after a stressful day at work at moderate to low volume and, I love a good stereo image with low level details and to hear the ”texture” on strings and vocals etc if that makes any sense. I have a pair of massive klipsch chorus for when I want scale and to party😊
Thanks in advance
Matt
The problem is I don’t have the luxury of being able to demo lots of different full range drivers till I find the ones that suit my taste.
Are there particular drivers or types to stay away from or are there any clues to look out for in the published frequency graphs?
These speakers will be used for relaxing too after a stressful day at work at moderate to low volume and, I love a good stereo image with low level details and to hear the ”texture” on strings and vocals etc if that makes any sense. I have a pair of massive klipsch chorus for when I want scale and to party😊
Thanks in advance
Matt
Member
Joined 2009
Paid Member
I am also v sensitive to the treble.
Avoid most Fostex, avoid the now obsolete FE127 in particular.
Avoid the Mark Audio CHN-70 too
Avoid all Lowther’s except the PM6A-silver
This Fountek driver sounds smooth to me but needs a helper woofer if more than a desktop speaker: Martello enclosure for FR88EX
If going big, Audio Nirvana 12 inch Super Ferrite (I have the 15” which is great but is no longer made)
The Mark Audio A10p is good, is of a good size and would be my top pick for you (the 10.3M is not bad, but for you the paper cone will be smoother).
I’m sure there are other drivers but I have not heard them.
Avoid most Fostex, avoid the now obsolete FE127 in particular.
Avoid the Mark Audio CHN-70 too
Avoid all Lowther’s except the PM6A-silver
This Fountek driver sounds smooth to me but needs a helper woofer if more than a desktop speaker: Martello enclosure for FR88EX
If going big, Audio Nirvana 12 inch Super Ferrite (I have the 15” which is great but is no longer made)
The Mark Audio A10p is good, is of a good size and would be my top pick for you (the 10.3M is not bad, but for you the paper cone will be smoother).
I’m sure there are other drivers but I have not heard them.
Does anyone think phase response is important re sibilance?
In this test Can you hear a difference between 2 solid state preamps? some heard more sibilance through the lower BW preamp
P.S. I have Jordan Eikonas too, don't have any issues with sibilance
In this test Can you hear a difference between 2 solid state preamps? some heard more sibilance through the lower BW preamp
P.S. I have Jordan Eikonas too, don't have any issues with sibilance
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Depends on your context, but loudspeaker drive units are essentially minimum phase devices so the phase tracks the FR. It's when you shift to multiway systems that it gets more complicated given the filtering introduced -that doesn't necessarily mean it's audible of course. Plenty of research to show it isn't, not all that much to say it is, truth likely as usual to lie somewhere in between, though the effects frequently overstated, and entirely context dependent.
Back on the OP question, a point to keep in mind is the significance of the off-axis & overall power-response also, unless you're planning on purely on-axis nearfield listening. If that's not the case and linear frequency / amplitude response is your dominant goal, a quality multiway may be a better bet as a quality tweeter is typically more linear through the HF than a wideband cone unit. SB's 6in Satori (don't try running it as a wideband, despite the graph) and partnering ring-dome for example are about as smooth as you can get and don't require particularly complex filtering to the point where within reason, you can do more or less whatever you like with them. Jeff Bagby's Kairos is one of the best compact kit offerings using these drivers within this context, for whatever my opinion as a designer of both wideband & multiway systems is worth.
Back on the OP question, a point to keep in mind is the significance of the off-axis & overall power-response also, unless you're planning on purely on-axis nearfield listening. If that's not the case and linear frequency / amplitude response is your dominant goal, a quality multiway may be a better bet as a quality tweeter is typically more linear through the HF than a wideband cone unit. SB's 6in Satori (don't try running it as a wideband, despite the graph) and partnering ring-dome for example are about as smooth as you can get and don't require particularly complex filtering to the point where within reason, you can do more or less whatever you like with them. Jeff Bagby's Kairos is one of the best compact kit offerings using these drivers within this context, for whatever my opinion as a designer of both wideband & multiway systems is worth.
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I've been thinking about the degree of sibilance produced by my speakers as my advancing years seem to be making me less tolerant to any harshness in the treble.
May I ask what you guys regard as being the 'sibilance range'?
For instance, here are two descriptions that I've just pulled off the interweb:
"Male voice sibilance ranges from 3000Hz to 6000Hz while female voice sibilance typically ranges from 6000-8000Hz."
"Sibilance is often centered between 5kHz to 8kHz, but can occur well above that frequency range."
May I ask what you guys regard as being the 'sibilance range'?
For instance, here are two descriptions that I've just pulled off the interweb:
"Male voice sibilance ranges from 3000Hz to 6000Hz while female voice sibilance typically ranges from 6000-8000Hz."
"Sibilance is often centered between 5kHz to 8kHz, but can occur well above that frequency range."
Is there one, or is there more to it? Those sounds are going to be wideband noise basically, but highly important in vocal recognition so we would be especially sensitive to them
Then the description "can occur well above that frequency range" would be in accord with your mention of "wideband noise".
I agree that an appropriate degree of sibilance on vocals is absolutely essential for hearing clarity, especially as one approaches the riper years!
I sort of wondered if the degree of sibilance I am happy with on vocals is producing an overemphasis of certain music frequencies.
I agree that an appropriate degree of sibilance on vocals is absolutely essential for hearing clarity, especially as one approaches the riper years!
I sort of wondered if the degree of sibilance I am happy with on vocals is producing an overemphasis of certain music frequencies.
The bass/midrange drivers in the speakers which I use chiefly for listening to spoken word radio are designed to run full range up to 5kHz. They are mid-band forward on music, but produce good clarity on speech. It's possible I'm becoming more sensitive to the associated cone breakup on the occasions I listen to music. I've tried including broad LCR notch filters in series with the bass/mid drivers, but always return to the clarity of the directly driven drivers.
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Perhaps it's age, or perhaps it's eventually comprehending what's been bothering you.
I find there's a lot of harsh and distorted sound from midrange up to over 10khz on many modern recordings. Personally I blame brain-deactivating "helpful" automated functions used in mastering process, like for instance "soundgoodizer" in combination with compressors and the like.
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A bit of both I think, young man.
I'm with you regarding the likelyhood of distortion being introduced at source - certain recordings can set my ears a-whistle more than others.
Fortunately, my serious music listening is done via vintage (now over 50 years old) full range drivers which are much more soothing to these ageing ears!
Of the drivers i have heard, the Alpair 6.2p or Alpair 10p would be my choice. The smaller driver probably fits your needs best, and could be pushed as low as 150 Hz in a WAW, but if you want to crank it, the larger driver — which in the right box probably doesn’t need help down low.
The A7p does not have the same smooth character thru the mids & tops, and the A12p althou of the same signature sonically does not reproduce the small detail as well as the 2 smaller paper drivers.
I have WAWs designed that use both A6.2p (cheap) and A10p (much pricier).
dave
The A7p does not have the same smooth character thru the mids & tops, and the A12p althou of the same signature sonically does not reproduce the small detail as well as the 2 smaller paper drivers.
I have WAWs designed that use both A6.2p (cheap) and A10p (much pricier).
dave
I'm having the impression most responses had the same type of driver / brands / mindset; consider this: small sized driver (3 incher) with a cone made of something that doesn't do sibilance... say... polypropylene; by the time you make a 4 incher of this material it cannot deliver fullrange coverage due to internal losses, it eats up the highest frequencies. Also the small size means the cone is more likely to survive intact till 9-12k. This will be cheap, of course so feel free to try one. If size means it must be at least 5 inch then a different strategy will be needed; I own a pair or Tang Band W5 2143 and there is something about that cone that isn't quite right, maybe it's just the narrow dispersion... or too much rubber glued on the cone so the highs are not quite "sparkling". The Philips 9710 is the opposite of TB w52143... don't know how it ended on the same list.
While we are talking about drivers and how they sound over the sibilant range, let me link you to my past work for comparison. Over several years I designed and built several mass loaded transmission line speakers with small full range drivers.
I completed designs that use Mark Audio Alpair 6 and 10 versions plus the Jordan JX92S. The attached link details my Alpair 6 design and it is a sweet sounding small tower speaker but also shows a photo of the three speakers. All of these speakers use metallic drivers and have no sibilance to my ears.
Small MLTL for Mark Audio Alpair 6 Drivers
In fact this afternoon I connected the Alpair 6 MLTLs for some easy listening and they are still impressive. The Jordan JX92S with a ribbon tweeter MLTLs are still my daily TV listening speakers.
I completed designs that use Mark Audio Alpair 6 and 10 versions plus the Jordan JX92S. The attached link details my Alpair 6 design and it is a sweet sounding small tower speaker but also shows a photo of the three speakers. All of these speakers use metallic drivers and have no sibilance to my ears.
Small MLTL for Mark Audio Alpair 6 Drivers
In fact this afternoon I connected the Alpair 6 MLTLs for some easy listening and they are still impressive. The Jordan JX92S with a ribbon tweeter MLTLs are still my daily TV listening speakers.
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