Jeff , you actually know what you are ordering.
Just like on Ebay , you have to "weed out" the 90% garbage offered.
Most will just buy the tool in the store , that steel is NOT good - it WILL break.
You just found one product in a sea of garbage.
Really , EVERTHING I have bought from the dollar stores/walmart has never
survived a month or one hard use.
In a polymer analogy , chinese polyethylene fermentation tanks
are cheap and world class , as good as any USA PE ??
- consumer goods , joe six-pack gets junk .
- commercial buyers can get specc'ed material real cheap (if they know).
OS
Ebay, Walmart and dollar stores (and Canadian Tire here in Canada) are places I try to avoid at all costs. It's all crap no matter where it's made. They always spec the cheapest possible, with little or no regard for quality, but then blame the poor quality on the supplier. I buy from reputable suppliers whenever possible, but in my trade, my labour costs much more than supplies, so it only makes sense to use good product so I don't need to do it twice.
It helps getting to know people in many different trades too. I try to purchase raw materials locally whenever possible. I usually go to the largest local manufacturer around who would use a product I need, then I talk to their maintenance guys for the facility. Usually the maintenance staff know if raw material is good by the way their machinery is operating. If it's good stuff I will buy from them directly or their supplier. This save a lot of trial and error, and a lot of cutters on the machines too.
Terry,
I just call them the way I've experienced them. Some not so very good
products come out of china. I've had stuff sheer right off that shouldn't.
I'm disgusted with buying poor quality smelly tools made in china.
Drill bits that turn into a figure 8 at first use...I kid you not.
Ever hear of the capacitor plague?
I would also imagine the inks and other stuff a laden with toxic stuff.
Books from china I have to air outside. Recall there was huge concern
before the olympics and the chinese gov't had to shut down their industry
and prohibit their standard dumping practices so the world wouldn't really
see nor smell how bad it is.
All the taps and other tooling, tools products I try to buy are only NOS or known good sources, i.e., non chinese.
no brag, just fact.
I've had to go to the point of requesting samples and/or a disclosure of the sourcing.
I have even had USA suppliers lie about this , and just "pass on" something they
sourced cheaply.
Best advise is to get that sample , test and compare to a known spec'ed sample.
Another sourcing "trick" is to go for used products. In just about all
cases , tools I have bought at garage sales or a private ebay seller that are 10+
years old have outlasted brand new purchases ( I still have them).
Funny how stuff that is already 10-12 YO and used by me for 3-4 more years
is totally outclassing BRAND new stuff (that I have already broken and disposed of).
OS
I have a Snap On truck come to me. Our dealers here in Canada are pretty hungry so they will source other brands and know what works as well.
For all your taps and cutting tools you are better to buy from a machine shop supplier. Most are on line, Their prices are usually half what the big box stores are and it's much better quality. Most of their stuff is from China as well, but a prime example of what I've been saying about some Chinese stuff being excellent. Sowa Tool has a US online store. Their carbide inserts suck but everything else is great. Those taps I sent you came from them.
Yes - those taps don't get dull , don't snap. If they are made in china - they work ..
who cares ?
(below) is my oldest tool - born in 1985 , found on the side of a road (I-90 in
Bozeman, Montana). It is magnetic stainless steel . (just tested it) 😱
I have abused the hell out of it , don't break/bend - not too bad for 30 years.
BTW , it is a"PST" leatherman multi-tool - made in Oregon.
OS
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As I've been saying, you can't blame China. They are just producing what people order. That's like blaming McDonalds for your clogged arteries. Some very good quality pieces come from China as well but you need to pay more for them just like any other country. Lay the blame where it belongs. Walmart and other large discount stores and the people that flock to those stores. If everyone would stop shopping there and buying crap, small vendors selling quality products might be able to stay in business and the choices of quality products would improve.
My brother in law has a set of Snap On tools with an "M" date code on them. That makes them 1942 Military issue tools from the second world war. That's some long lasting tools. Snap On still honors the warranty too. I had a socket replaced for him a few years ago.
Yes , it's the people's fault. This generation just expects everything to be disposable.
They have been "weaned" off of the expectation of quality goods. My father and adults
in the 1970-80's would of really been mad if sold any present day wares.
Because of this , you won't see general consumer goods improve any time soon. 🙁
OS
They have been "weaned" off of the expectation of quality goods. My father and adults
in the 1970-80's would of really been mad if sold any present day wares.
Because of this , you won't see general consumer goods improve any time soon. 🙁
OS
Same with 70's Sears craftsman. I still have my fathers hardened and regular sockets.
Have beat on them with hammers , torqued 100's of ft lbs. , stripped hex heads -
not a bad piece on the set - 40 years !!!
OS
I started in the mechanics trade with Craftsman tools. About 10 years later Craftsman tools in Canada suddenly increased in size and completely changed shape, and became garbage. I would get so pissed watching the drag races on TV for years after and seeing you still had the old Craftsman tools in the US while mine were disposable junk in Canada. I still have a bunch of the sockets but I replaced most of my tools with SK, only to have them sell out and become junk as well. That's when I switched to Snap On. I don't like a lot of their tools. It's outright insulting to use any of their electronic diagnostic tools (designed to be operated by drooling idiots). But they've been around for a long time and don't seem to be leaving any time soon.
Obviously I am older than some on here, almost all my tools are Craftsman and Snap-0n tools. Of course the occasional Vise Grips pliers or Channel Lock tools where I need something not in my normal took bag. You do get what you pay for with quality tools, some will swear by Mac tools or their own choice of quality if you truly need them for everyday use and make your living with them.
I agree with JW that the real problem with things from China is up to the buyers at the companies looking for the lowest cost to get the highest returns. They know only a very small number of people will return the junk stuff. I deal with this with tooling quotes from China, they ask me what type of quality I expect, they will use the best name brand components if you ask for them, and many of those are American made parts shipped to them. If you want quality tools don't go to Walmart or the 99 cent store. McMaster-Carr is a great source for something you don't know where to find it. Sears still sells Craftsman though the newer ratchets for sockets are terrible compared to my 40 year old ones.
I agree with JW that the real problem with things from China is up to the buyers at the companies looking for the lowest cost to get the highest returns. They know only a very small number of people will return the junk stuff. I deal with this with tooling quotes from China, they ask me what type of quality I expect, they will use the best name brand components if you ask for them, and many of those are American made parts shipped to them. If you want quality tools don't go to Walmart or the 99 cent store. McMaster-Carr is a great source for something you don't know where to find it. Sears still sells Craftsman though the newer ratchets for sockets are terrible compared to my 40 year old ones.
I think I have almost every tool Vice Grip makes. I fabricate so many odd shaped parts that no other tool can hold in position for me short of an assembly jig. Bessey makes some excellent tools for fabricators too.
The need for more tooling never ends. I pulled out my stacks of tool receipts 15 years ago and started adding them up. I stopped at $80000. I need a lot more than the average mechanic with all the welding, machining and electronic gear but it gets pretty crazy what we need to spend over the span of our career.
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Like you JW I probably don't want to know how much my two six foot tool boxes hold in dollars. I also have some equipment that is from the 1930 and built in America, nothing made today can touch that equipment, it is made to last forever, a 36" band saw, 30" disk sander and a spindle sander that I had in my pattern shop. Add in my mill and lathe and many other specialized things and you just don't want to know how much you have invested. JW I have a Snap-on MIG welder and that has been a great piece, at the same time I agree that some of the automotive electronic test equipment is just so over priced. Some have these tools just for show it seems, though I hate my snap-on wrenches if I have greasy hands, it is way to slippery with that pretty chrome finish.
I find most of my tools. Rental clean-outs , dumpsters, garage sales - and Ebay.
Most good tools are being scrapped to make $ store ones . Yuk !
Found a craftsman mitre saw ... they threw it out because the laser guide failed.
Motor/brushes were like new , blade was new , too ! All 3 of my DMM's ,
battery died and they threw them all out - just a 9V battery !!
OS
Most good tools are being scrapped to make $ store ones . Yuk !
Found a craftsman mitre saw ... they threw it out because the laser guide failed.
Motor/brushes were like new , blade was new , too ! All 3 of my DMM's ,
battery died and they threw them all out - just a 9V battery !!
OS
OS,
That is funny as I haven't found one hand tool yet where the laser guide was worth anything at all, they never track correctly on a saw that I have used. I just take them off or cover the laser so I don't have to see it.
That is funny as I haven't found one hand tool yet where the laser guide was worth anything at all, they never track correctly on a saw that I have used. I just take them off or cover the laser so I don't have to see it.
hey, me too!
my father bought me my first drill in 1971 - a sears craftsman.
it was my ONLY drill (besides my dremmel) up until 2 or 3 years ago, when i brutally abused the motor and it finally gave up the ghost.
it's definitely hard (but possible with hard work) to find quality like that now.
mlloyd1
my father bought me my first drill in 1971 - a sears craftsman.
it was my ONLY drill (besides my dremmel) up until 2 or 3 years ago, when i brutally abused the motor and it finally gave up the ghost.
it's definitely hard (but possible with hard work) to find quality like that now.
mlloyd1
You need tools to do "audio" .... extrusions don't tap themselves ?
If I break my cheap tap off in a block of aluminum , there will be "audio" (without
any speakers) 😱 .
PS - maybe "slewmaster" can join the blowtorch in the lounge ?
OS
If I break my cheap tap off in a block of aluminum , there will be "audio" (without
any speakers) 😱 .
PS - maybe "slewmaster" can join the blowtorch in the lounge ?
OS