Yes, sorry for my inexactitude but I meant to say 'preferably pre-populated (with good quality resistors)'. SMD active devices are what I find hardest to solder but if those were to be pre-soldered perhaps it would be as well to do the resistors etc. too?
I have considered the Chinese DSC1 boards available from ebay but I wonder about their use of only 1% tolerance resistors?
The accuracy of the resistors is not the main parameter here. There is no difference between 1% and 0.1%. The noise parameters and the impulse response of the resistors are more important.
I received my Ebay DSC1 unbalanced version yesterday. I hope to have it up and running before the weekend.
Assuming my DIYINHK XMOS USB interface plays nice with it.
I'll report back in due course.
Mark
Found a little time today - have music. Using DSD512 it sounds really very good.
But I have some noise in the background that seems uncorrelated to the signal, varies in intensity but at its loudest is very detrimental. It starts when I hit Play in HQPLayer, even before the music starts. Is this something characteristic of this approach to "decoding" or can I hope to drive it away and let the good music flood through.
Need to figure how to auto the mute too - almost drove my Utopia drivers through my eardrums on one occasion. Not good for me or my cans!
More later.
But I have some noise in the background that seems uncorrelated to the signal, varies in intensity but at its loudest is very detrimental. It starts when I hit Play in HQPLayer, even before the music starts. Is this something characteristic of this approach to "decoding" or can I hope to drive it away and let the good music flood through.
Need to figure how to auto the mute too - almost drove my Utopia drivers through my eardrums on one occasion. Not good for me or my cans!
More later.
In the differential version, this noise is absent.
This is a big problem when playing DSD. But it is completely solved in Amanero with the new firmware version of 2003.
Hi PPY
Thanks for the information. I (perhaps foolishly) sold my Amanero i/f sme tme ago. Maybe should consider buying another.
I considered the differential board but am not a big fan of transformers and my headphone rig is single-ended end to end so it would not be an ideal match. I'm fiddling with different filters in HQP, not sure if it is really making a difference but does seem to vary.
I need to listen to it over some time and decide if this noise (which is really no worse than typical vinyl background in level) is going to be something I can't live with.
I've only sat down and listened for a couple hours so far, but the music itself is sounding very good, kind of organic. I should have some time over the weekend for more listening and I've had it running overnight to get some signal through the caps and op amps.
Mark
Thanks for the information. I (perhaps foolishly) sold my Amanero i/f sme tme ago. Maybe should consider buying another.
I considered the differential board but am not a big fan of transformers and my headphone rig is single-ended end to end so it would not be an ideal match. I'm fiddling with different filters in HQP, not sure if it is really making a difference but does seem to vary.
I need to listen to it over some time and decide if this noise (which is really no worse than typical vinyl background in level) is going to be something I can't live with.
I've only sat down and listened for a couple hours so far, but the music itself is sounding very good, kind of organic. I should have some time over the weekend for more listening and I've had it running overnight to get some signal through the caps and op amps.
Mark
This noise, similar to the murmur of water, can not be removed in an unbalanced version. It is most strongly manifested in quiet music - jazz, classical music. You can reduce noise only by lowering the frequency to DSD256 or DSD128.
hmm
Perhaps not the main parameter, but if you read the thread here, people have confirmed better performance (measured) with higher precision resistors. I suspect that at least .1% should be used, some have gone to .05% and reported improvements. Susumu thin film at this precision at not that much money (we are not talking about foils or anything)
Perhaps not the main parameter, but if you read the thread here, people have confirmed better performance (measured) with higher precision resistors. I suspect that at least .1% should be used, some have gone to .05% and reported improvements. Susumu thin film at this precision at not that much money (we are not talking about foils or anything)
Random Thought of the Day
Don't want to push the thread off topic but following my recent experience with the chinese DSC derivative (mostly a clone of Jussi's design) which sounded good except in the really quiet passages, an improved implementation of the DSC1 principle would be nice. I know there is the balanced version from the same ebay team and I will probably get one of those in time.
However, as an enthusiastic owner of the Soekris R-2R DAM1121, it occured to me that it might be possible to create an alternative firmware for that device which would repurpose the ladder as a DSC1 type filter. This is very similar to what Holo Audio have done with their Spring (and one version of the forthcoming Cyan dac).
The Soekris sounds great on PCM, precision of resistors is not such an issue on the DSC1 due to the averaging nature of the process, many of us already own a Soekris dac, what do you guys think? We could speak nicely to Soren...
Don't want to push the thread off topic but following my recent experience with the chinese DSC derivative (mostly a clone of Jussi's design) which sounded good except in the really quiet passages, an improved implementation of the DSC1 principle would be nice. I know there is the balanced version from the same ebay team and I will probably get one of those in time.
However, as an enthusiastic owner of the Soekris R-2R DAM1121, it occured to me that it might be possible to create an alternative firmware for that device which would repurpose the ladder as a DSC1 type filter. This is very similar to what Holo Audio have done with their Spring (and one version of the forthcoming Cyan dac).
The Soekris sounds great on PCM, precision of resistors is not such an issue on the DSC1 due to the averaging nature of the process, many of us already own a Soekris dac, what do you guys think? We could speak nicely to Soren...
I am thinking quality resistor is more important than acurate on DSC1.
AMTRANS AMRG series/High End Carbon Film Resistors for Audio Equipments
Seems too big for small pcb but improvement should be present in comparaison of standard resistor.
AMTRANS AMRG series/High End Carbon Film Resistors for Audio Equipments
Seems too big for small pcb but improvement should be present in comparaison of standard resistor.
No, with such resistors it will be very bad. It will be strongly influenced by the wiring between the resistors and on them.
I did many measurements with different SMD resistors (MELF Vishay 2%, MELF 0.1%, Susumu 0.1%, Yageo 0.1%). All measurements are almost identical and are practically limited by the capabilities of my E-MU 0204:
I did many measurements with different SMD resistors (MELF Vishay 2%, MELF 0.1%, Susumu 0.1%, Yageo 0.1%). All measurements are almost identical and are practically limited by the capabilities of my E-MU 0204:
- THD 0.0008-0.00037%
- SNR 98-109db
Ok ppy, could you explain the range 98-109 db?
Best SNR for which case?
Do you have an idea of the price for the final version of DSC1?
Best SNR for which case?
Do you have an idea of the price for the final version of DSC1?
In the latest versions I use Yageo.
This is not expensive and allows you to get up to 110db SNR.
This forum thread is not for commercial issues. Please write to private messages.
That 's interesting to compare directly the impact of resistor on SNR.
I am surprise by a such difference between resisors in same price range.
I am surprise by a such difference between resisors in same price range.
To be honest, I want to try this board but I have no idea about this PCB from China. So anyone who tried this? Is this working?
The tolerance of 15k Resistors is 1% is good enough?
Many thanks
Differential Version DSC1 DAC DSD decoding hardware kit Italy Amanero XMOS | eBay
The tolerance of 15k Resistors is 1% is good enough?
Many thanks
Differential Version DSC1 DAC DSD decoding hardware kit Italy Amanero XMOS | eBay
I have the unbalanced ebay kit - pretty close to the Signalyst DSC1 design.
It works well, sounds great - BUT suffers a certain background noise that is audible in quiet patches. Without that it would have probably replaced my Soekris DAM1121 as main dac. The music flows really well through this kit, detailed and relaxed sounding, just a shame you cannot ride the low level of noise (like vinyl surface noise).
The maths seem to indicate that resistor precision is not such an issue as with a typical ladder r2r dac as it averages the level of each bit through the ladder.
I think it was PPY here who has the balanced version and that solves the noise issue.
It works well, sounds great - BUT suffers a certain background noise that is audible in quiet patches. Without that it would have probably replaced my Soekris DAM1121 as main dac. The music flows really well through this kit, detailed and relaxed sounding, just a shame you cannot ride the low level of noise (like vinyl surface noise).
The maths seem to indicate that resistor precision is not such an issue as with a typical ladder r2r dac as it averages the level of each bit through the ladder.
I think it was PPY here who has the balanced version and that solves the noise issue.
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Yes confirm. In balanced design, there is no noise on weak signals.
But to work on the transformer, the resistors are best reduced to 7.5K
Thank you so much for answering my concern. The seller also confirm that the low level of noise has been removed by modding something in schematic, damn the seller is liar.
For the transformer, I saw some use 1:1 (as 600:600 or 10k:10k) specially 1:5 transformer, so what I will need for this board?
One more thing, the output is Balanced, so is this possible to change it back to unbalanced because I can't find unbalanced version?