I remember I listened to a resistor once in a speaker crossover network where I couldn't detect differences in its direction. We did many A/B swaps. If it's true, then it should be considered as a perfect one and should not be thrown away in the bin.
It was a carbon resistor made by Duelund.
It was a carbon resistor made by Duelund.
So here is my question to those who have experienced any difference in sound quality vs. signal direction: which direction is better? I use Vishay naked z-foils in my tube phono preamplifier with passive RIAA, and not knowing there might be any difference I just simply soldered them left-to-right. That means the signal flow is left to right if the pins are down and the resistive element is in front. No text on this type of resistor.
Now if it turned out that all are the wrong way
Now if it turned out that all are the wrong way
Read it again: it applies to TRUTH and truth only.
Nonsense posted around here meets the first two points, naming is ridiculed and opposed, but never ever becomes widely accepted .... simply because it´s not truth, should I say?
Meeting 2 points but failing miserably at the third counts as failure, not success.
How are you so certain? Some truths have taken centuries to be accepted. Maybe some won't live long enough to see it happen?
Yeah, can somebody upload a typical schematic, then have the believers mark signal direction of "signal flow" for each component?
Could be enlighting to see all the misconceptions, things like the upper resistor in a voltage divider being "in the signal path" whereas the bottom resistors is not (because it is "parallel to the signal path")....
Is resistor directionality audible in speaker crossovers? Any resistor type that is particularly directional?
What about the terminating wires? Is it possible all directionality in resistors is caused by the terminating wires? In naked resistors such a hypothesis should be easy to test.
Although none of the 'resistor listeners' will read this, once again:
A standard metal film resistor for example is made from different constituents by the manufacturer:
* resistive element, usually metal film deposited on ceramic tube
* end caps
* terminating wires
* laquer coating with printing on it (written or color rings)
Now keep in mind that resistor manufacturers do not believe in resistor directionality. Therefore all these parts come together in completely random orientation during the production process. So even if one of the resistor constituents had directionality, it would be completely averaged out and certainly not be distinguishable by choosing the same printing direction for all components or other funny selection methods.
Regards,
Rundmaus
A standard metal film resistor for example is made from different constituents by the manufacturer:
* resistive element, usually metal film deposited on ceramic tube
* end caps
* terminating wires
* laquer coating with printing on it (written or color rings)
Now keep in mind that resistor manufacturers do not believe in resistor directionality. Therefore all these parts come together in completely random orientation during the production process. So even if one of the resistor constituents had directionality, it would be completely averaged out and certainly not be distinguishable by choosing the same printing direction for all components or other funny selection methods.
Regards,
Rundmaus
Your dealer friend put on a demonstration that would have made The Amazing Kreskin proud. In fact, when you tell that story experimental psychologists stand and clap, a few of them wiping away a tear of thanks, they are so happy to have such a perfect example of what they have been teaching for decades.
So you described a "problem" to your dealer, and he told you he could create it at will. He let you listen to a sysrem, then changed something, and Hey Presto! you heard the problem. Then you went home, made the same change, and mirabile dictu it worked!
The observed results of these "experiments" are the least surprising outcomes possible. In fact, if the dealer had reached behind the components and done nothing, or better yet removed, reversed, and replaced an interconnect that was not related to what you listened to (something connected to a different input jack), I guarantee the outcome would have been identical. Why am I so sure? Because it has been done so many times!
I accept that you heard what you heard, but I do not believe that the direction of the interconnect changed the signal in any way. Of course it is possible that it did, but you have not provided any credible evidence to support that conclusion.
Really? And I thought the power plant turned coal into electricity and sent it via AC to me and many others to use.
Way back there were folks who though AC could not transmit power. Different than the Edison Westinghouse bit over distributing AC or DC.
The issue is do certain kinds of resistors behave differently when the power flows one direction rather than the other way.
The resistors in question uses temperature induced strain to offset temperature induced changes in resistance. There is a possibly interesting effect of frequency/phase issues between the two as the frequency drops.
Convention assigns direction to power flow. But regardless of which direction the power 'flows' (toward power plant or away from it) the behavior is identical, since it passes through nondirectional passive components (power lines, transformers).
Completely irrelevant to the debate of resistor directionality.
Actually the issue is does a certain type of resistor behave differently with power flow direction. You can throw in the issue of waveform symmetry.
If the issue was voltage or current flow the measurement would be trivial and the distortion significant.
At RF frequency directional devices are common. In the past hybrid transformers were used to provide directional AC to enable the common telephone to work well.
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Do not worry, I have read all of your posts.
You seem however, to be talking with certainty. Are you certain for all resistor manufacturers and if yes, how do you know it? Have you been inside every resistor factory and observed the working protocol? Or else?
While resistor audible directionality is currently subjected to strong doubts and debates, in that case I think the opposite camps should talk from a strongly objective point of view. Should I trust the claim you made?
I don't know about resistors, I can only be certain for many axial capacitors I've used and measured the outer foil leadout vs the markings. All of them had it matched - ERO, Philips, Mundorf, RIFA, FT3.
It does not. Or might now. But why should you associate resistor directivity with AC only? Perhaps there might be another reason of the phenomenon, if it exists*?
*It will not to most folks until solid evidence is found, but only to small groups of people.
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Ehhh, hello! Power doesn't flow....
You can measure power being absorbed or generated in a component or motor or whatever (hint: it is the product of voltage across and current trough).
You cannot hang a meter on a wire and measure the power flowing through it. You can only measure power being consumed or generated in a 'thing'.
Jan
You can measure power being absorbed or generated in a component or motor or whatever (hint: it is the product of voltage across and current trough).
You cannot hang a meter on a wire and measure the power flowing through it. You can only measure power being consumed or generated in a 'thing'.
Jan
Audio IS AC, nothing else.
The "two camps" are the camps I would call technical experts and the believers with very basic or lack of technical knowledge.
In this forum you will find not a single expert who supports directivity of resistors relevant to audio.
If I am missing one, feel free to enlighten me.
As has often been mentioned, not the experts have to prove that all resistors worldwide act according to the laws of physics, but the believers have to prove that at least one resistor worldwide behaves according to their claims.
Yes history shows that truths have been suppressed. More evident it shows that humans always created myths in case they did not understand nature. And by this open the box of pandora for any charlatans. This has not changed in the modern "post factural" times, not all all.
just my 2c
Actually it has been proven over and over again in many tens of years old books, articles, studies, what have you. It is firmly established and proven already.
Of course this knowledge and proofs are carefully ignored by the believers to avoid cognitive dissonance which would make them feel bad. It is better to remain ignorant than to feel bad, of course.
Jan
... that has been amplified in voltage and current with the help of a rectified and filtered AC power supply, then fed into an acoustic transducer. Although my statement does not contribute much to the topic, it can make someone think about various factors that might come into play and potentially might be a reason for the phenomena we are discussing here. If someone has abstract thinking, be he/she called an "expert" or not.
I can agree with this. Also, a myth can turn into a truth and vice versa. Time will tell.
People have always seemed to be very conservative to knowledge. Many of them will fight with teeth and claws to preserve the integrity of the things they have learned, unable to question them the slightest bit. After all, everything is impossible, until it's done.
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You seem to try to present a reasonable position but all you are doing here is furthering the myth that 'my view is just as valuable as your view'. It is not.
One the one hand we have a view that is just a story with no back up, not even the remotest of explanations, just empty statements, and going against all we have found and studied and proven. On the other hand there is a view based on many years of research, established facts and corroborating research outcomes.
The two are definitely not equally valuable, except in a very personal sense which has no meaning for anybody else.
Does that mean that views cannot change? Of course they can. If someone can show convincingly, backed up with rigorous, repeatable and reliable testing that R's have directionality, well, we would have to accept that, don't we? So what are you waiting for?
In the mean time, the intelligent position to take is: OK, there's no proof that Rs are directional, so what I think I heard was most likely caused by another phenomenon, or maybe I did not hear what I thought I heard as it often the case (ref: psycho-acoustic research etc), so let me see if I can find an explanation for all this.
Jan
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