I am looking for a 4 way system project.
I only found some nice kits on the Troels' site and the best one for me could me the
DISC-4, not exceeding my budget of 2.000 USD max.
I did not find anybody that could give me some feedback on the kit and I am still looking for something else.
Do you have any suggestion?
I am looking for a project with a good bass extension, 12" or even 15" woofers would be ok.
Thanks for your help
I only found some nice kits on the Troels' site and the best one for me could me the
DISC-4, not exceeding my budget of 2.000 USD max.
I did not find anybody that could give me some feedback on the kit and I am still looking for something else.
Do you have any suggestion?
I am looking for a project with a good bass extension, 12" or even 15" woofers would be ok.
Thanks for your help
jogas, you're in for a world of hurt.
I've attached a schematic. This is from the Thiel cs5. Take a good look. This is how much work is involved with your dream. Sure you can make it simpler, but how will it sound? Go to Humble Homemade Hifi , take a look at Tony's 4-ways. Are you getting the picture?
$2,000.00 USD.? Let's use the 1/5th rule. If a speaker manufacturer could build a 4-way for 2 grand, it would retail for $10,000.00. Give us your list of 4-ways that retail for 10 grand? From there we'll try to help.
I've attached a schematic. This is from the Thiel cs5. Take a good look. This is how much work is involved with your dream. Sure you can make it simpler, but how will it sound? Go to Humble Homemade Hifi , take a look at Tony's 4-ways. Are you getting the picture?
$2,000.00 USD.? Let's use the 1/5th rule. If a speaker manufacturer could build a 4-way for 2 grand, it would retail for $10,000.00. Give us your list of 4-ways that retail for 10 grand? From there we'll try to help.
Attachments
Hi Cousin Billy
I understood your points.
The only place where I found some 4 ways loudspeakers projects was the site of Troels Gravesen.
Having said that, back to the reason for the 4 ways search.
I am currently using the following loudspeakers
The project comes from one of the best Italian designers (Renato Giussani, 1947-2014)
I made the loudspeakers more than 5 years ago and I want an upgrade.
I am used to hear a 12" woofer and I thought that a project based on 4 ways should be better in the bass extension due to the upper and lower bass drivers.
Regards
I understood your points.
The only place where I found some 4 ways loudspeakers projects was the site of Troels Gravesen.
Having said that, back to the reason for the 4 ways search.
I am currently using the following loudspeakers
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
The project comes from one of the best Italian designers (Renato Giussani, 1947-2014)
I made the loudspeakers more than 5 years ago and I want an upgrade.
I am used to hear a 12" woofer and I thought that a project based on 4 ways should be better in the bass extension due to the upper and lower bass drivers.
Regards
Last edited:
....I realized too late that I made a mess uploading the pics.
To see them you should click and open in a new window, sorry...
To see them you should click and open in a new window, sorry...
Hey Jogas!
There are some very good 3-way system designs. With your budget you would be able to afford good quality drivers.
What is it you hope for in a 4 way?
Are you thinking conventional, or horn type?
Best,
E
There are some very good 3-way system designs. With your budget you would be able to afford good quality drivers.
What is it you hope for in a 4 way?
Are you thinking conventional, or horn type?
Best,
E
Hi E!
any suggestion for a 3 way with deep bass extension?
As I wrote before, I am used with a 12" woofer in a bass reflex configuration.
To improve what I already have, a 15" could be an idea?
... but where can I find some project?
regards
any suggestion for a 3 way with deep bass extension?
As I wrote before, I am used with a 12" woofer in a bass reflex configuration.
To improve what I already have, a 15" could be an idea?
... but where can I find some project?
regards
Jogas,
Bass extension is complicated, and often has more to do with your room than your speaker. Being able to measure your speakers is key. Also, bass traps. Here's a good link for you to read:
Bass Trap Myths
What about something much simpler, like adding a 15" subwoofer, with built-in amp and DSP, or maybe trying out measurements and room improvements with what you have?
Both these approaches will help you learn a lot more, without being very complicated or expensive.
Also, please look at the Room EQ Wizard pages. Lots of dedicated "bass heads" there who can help you measure and decide what to do with what you have. 🙂
Best,
E
Bass extension is complicated, and often has more to do with your room than your speaker. Being able to measure your speakers is key. Also, bass traps. Here's a good link for you to read:
Bass Trap Myths
What about something much simpler, like adding a 15" subwoofer, with built-in amp and DSP, or maybe trying out measurements and room improvements with what you have?
Both these approaches will help you learn a lot more, without being very complicated or expensive.
Also, please look at the Room EQ Wizard pages. Lots of dedicated "bass heads" there who can help you measure and decide what to do with what you have. 🙂
Best,
E
Congratulations on the initiative shown by Jogas to make something new. It's my belief that Troels' strongest designs incorporate his excellent 8" JA8008.
My suggestion would be to build in a lowest range driver that has an independent subwoofer, with the DSPeaker 2.0 as a low pass filter.
As mentioned above, more complicated designs have more parts in the signal path.
An alternative is the Linkwitz designs, which produce excellent results, but at a higher parts cost.
http://www.linkwitzlab.com/LX521/Supplies.htm
Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
My suggestion would be to build in a lowest range driver that has an independent subwoofer, with the DSPeaker 2.0 as a low pass filter.
As mentioned above, more complicated designs have more parts in the signal path.
An alternative is the Linkwitz designs, which produce excellent results, but at a higher parts cost.
http://www.linkwitzlab.com/LX521/Supplies.htm
Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
Hi Jogas.
It's a nice idea & wish ... but,
between (very) good theoretical suggestions (on your display) & your realization there is a huge difference.
That's my experience(-s).
I sugest:
Go to audio-people in the DIY field (good amps & horn) & "listen" (in vivo) to their concept (pro & contra ) compared with your fine musical-signature & (small) budget ...
You are welcome (& home) .... for an audio-sit-in ....
Allez, salukes ...
Karel
Karel
2$ isn't going to get you far. For something of this complexity active is a no brainer IMO (and better is all ways).
Hi Jogas
I have done a few 4 way speaker concept studies that I have completely simulated in Leap. I have taken the supplier specification of the drivers as the input for the simulations. In the case there is a good match between the used drivers and their specification, the Leap simulation is very accurate. I have already done several designs in that way with very good results.
For designs that I built myself, I measure all drivers on a 225Hz IEC baffle. With these measurements I make the driver models, simulate the enclosure response and X-over, all in Leap. It works very nice.
You can find these designs on my website http://www.vcllabs.com under "Projects".
My 4 way design examples are designed with too expensive drivers you have in mind I suppose. But I have also designed a 3 way speaker, the EX6 on my website, with Seas Prestige units. These drivers are not so expensive. They are also used by S.Linkwitz in his LX521. By adding a large woofer to my EX6 design you should be able to make a nice speaker in my opinion.
In case of interest, I will help you designing a 4 way system based on my EX6.
Paul
I have done a few 4 way speaker concept studies that I have completely simulated in Leap. I have taken the supplier specification of the drivers as the input for the simulations. In the case there is a good match between the used drivers and their specification, the Leap simulation is very accurate. I have already done several designs in that way with very good results.
For designs that I built myself, I measure all drivers on a 225Hz IEC baffle. With these measurements I make the driver models, simulate the enclosure response and X-over, all in Leap. It works very nice.
You can find these designs on my website http://www.vcllabs.com under "Projects".
My 4 way design examples are designed with too expensive drivers you have in mind I suppose. But I have also designed a 3 way speaker, the EX6 on my website, with Seas Prestige units. These drivers are not so expensive. They are also used by S.Linkwitz in his LX521. By adding a large woofer to my EX6 design you should be able to make a nice speaker in my opinion.
In case of interest, I will help you designing a 4 way system based on my EX6.
Paul
Hello!
thanks to all of you for having sent so many answers.
thanks to Paul V, your site and your projects are very interesting indeed.
I am thinking that maybe my request is a kind of mission impossible.
As I wrote before, now I am using a pair of TFS-1 from a project of Renato Giussani.
I am used to listen with a 12" Beyma WF and I was, I am very curious to play with a 15" or a paralle of 10"/12"
Probably as somebody of you said, it is not only a matter of size, but also a matter of room treatment
I cannot change to much in my room, the space is limited and the speakers are quite close to the wall.
Don't know how to proceed 🙁
thanks to all of you for having sent so many answers.
thanks to Paul V, your site and your projects are very interesting indeed.
I am thinking that maybe my request is a kind of mission impossible.
As I wrote before, now I am using a pair of TFS-1 from a project of Renato Giussani.
I am used to listen with a 12" Beyma WF and I was, I am very curious to play with a 15" or a paralle of 10"/12"
Probably as somebody of you said, it is not only a matter of size, but also a matter of room treatment
I cannot change to much in my room, the space is limited and the speakers are quite close to the wall.
Don't know how to proceed 🙁
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Nice coat hangers *! 😛
( don't misunderstand me, I started with audio by buying Audioreview in 1986, just the times that Renato G. was publishing the TAS )
BTW TFS means The Forum Speaker
*Those coat hangers are meant to mount the cloth grill 😱
( don't misunderstand me, I started with audio by buying Audioreview in 1986, just the times that Renato G. was publishing the TAS )
BTW TFS means The Forum Speaker
*Those coat hangers are meant to mount the cloth grill 😱
... I know, I know, I had a lot of email exchanges with Renato at the time of the construction of the TFS-1.
I never covered the speakers with the grill foreseen by the project and Renato said that anyway, the design was useful to help the horizontal dispersion 🙂
Jogas
To give you some feedback about the response of this speaker, I can do a Leap simulation of this design. But then I need the dimensions of the woofer and midrange cabinets.
It looks like, the midrange is mounted on a baffle? Difficult to see.
The woofer system is closed box, or basreflex...?
And some data about the cabinet filling, heavy fill or walls covered,...
In my opinion these Beyma and Fostex drivers should be capable to realize a good performing speaker.
To give you some feedback about the response of this speaker, I can do a Leap simulation of this design. But then I need the dimensions of the woofer and midrange cabinets.
It looks like, the midrange is mounted on a baffle? Difficult to see.
The woofer system is closed box, or basreflex...?
And some data about the cabinet filling, heavy fill or walls covered,...
In my opinion these Beyma and Fostex drivers should be capable to realize a good performing speaker.
Thanks Dissi.
Something is not clear for me. Looking to the impedance plot in the document, it seems to be a ported system for the woofer. But in the drawings I don't see any port.
In the case some impedance measurements of the woofer and the midrange in their enclosure are done, without filter connected, they are also welcome as an extra information for the simulation.
Something is not clear for me. Looking to the impedance plot in the document, it seems to be a ported system for the woofer. But in the drawings I don't see any port.
In the case some impedance measurements of the woofer and the midrange in their enclosure are done, without filter connected, they are also welcome as an extra information for the simulation.
Meanwhile I think I have found the port of the woofer cabinet. It seems to be the foot of the cabinet which is open at the back side... very well hidden 🙂
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