The question is -
1)what is the room placement
2) how low do u want to go
-will a 40hz horn do
3) Do u want a simple ported sub
4) Are u wondering about 70hz+ systems/ go sealed box,many use a 10" or 8" midrange conical/tractix horn to cover 300-1/2khz
Id reccomend the lab12 or similar on a horn. For 40hz and higher it will perform well too,not just on its original 30hz labhorn.
12" units with the desired horn specs can perform optimally in a small horn. Larger units require a larger horn.
Mouth size must be large if your not using a corner
Cheers
1)what is the room placement
2) how low do u want to go
-will a 40hz horn do
3) Do u want a simple ported sub
4) Are u wondering about 70hz+ systems/ go sealed box,many use a 10" or 8" midrange conical/tractix horn to cover 300-1/2khz
Id reccomend the lab12 or similar on a horn. For 40hz and higher it will perform well too,not just on its original 30hz labhorn.
12" units with the desired horn specs can perform optimally in a small horn. Larger units require a larger horn.
Mouth size must be large if your not using a corner
Cheers
reply
I think you should ditch the scoops as they are only gonna be use them at home and maybe small venues.And build a bandpass or reflex sub bass bin or bass bin using a 18 inch or 15 inch driver.
Transporting scoops is a problem too,so unless you have a huge van, your stuck with hiring a van every time you want to do a gig.
So scoops size wise are crap and so is their poor deep bass response.The only thing I like about scoops is the hard hitting mid bass around 80-150hz.
So for small venues/house parties I'd use 2x bandpass or reflex bass bin 18 or 15 inch ,2x mid 10 inch or 8 inch in sealed cabinet,2x HF unit containg a 1 inch compression driver and a bullet or slot tweeter.
Run it all active with active x over and use seperate amps for each section.
At least this system would be portable and able to fit in large estate car/small van.
I think you should ditch the scoops as they are only gonna be use them at home and maybe small venues.And build a bandpass or reflex sub bass bin or bass bin using a 18 inch or 15 inch driver.
Transporting scoops is a problem too,so unless you have a huge van, your stuck with hiring a van every time you want to do a gig.
So scoops size wise are crap and so is their poor deep bass response.The only thing I like about scoops is the hard hitting mid bass around 80-150hz.
So for small venues/house parties I'd use 2x bandpass or reflex bass bin 18 or 15 inch ,2x mid 10 inch or 8 inch in sealed cabinet,2x HF unit containg a 1 inch compression driver and a bullet or slot tweeter.
Run it all active with active x over and use seperate amps for each section.
At least this system would be portable and able to fit in large estate car/small van.
Hm ...
I want something for outside party's and big inside party's .. somethink solid .
Dich the scoop's .. hmm .. i don't know .. my question was what to put over them so i can driver outside party's .. and etc ..
I want something for outside party's and big inside party's .. somethink solid .
Dich the scoop's .. hmm .. i don't know .. my question was what to put over them so i can driver outside party's .. and etc ..
darkm4n
Keep the Scoops.
You know exactly what you are looking for. Although they
don't play low when used singular, they do offer good low
bass when used in groups of 4, 6, 8, 12, or 18 boxes.
They are Rearloaded horns, that will perform, and, has
the efficency a horn, when used in groups. Which is
exactly what you are planning to do.
Remember what I mentioned about power, and, the
correct drivers.
You're are a "PA Guy"! Keep in mind that 90% of the
builders around here are building for home use, where
in PA, room placement is not a factor.
Four Scoops fed 3200 watts for bass will do the job.
Keep the Scoops.
You know exactly what you are looking for. Although they
don't play low when used singular, they do offer good low
bass when used in groups of 4, 6, 8, 12, or 18 boxes.
They are Rearloaded horns, that will perform, and, has
the efficency a horn, when used in groups. Which is
exactly what you are planning to do.
Remember what I mentioned about power, and, the
correct drivers.
You're are a "PA Guy"! Keep in mind that 90% of the
builders around here are building for home use, where
in PA, room placement is not a factor.
Four Scoops fed 3200 watts for bass will do the job.
So .. you're telling me that if i want to improve my sistem i have to build another 2 scoops with good drivers ? No sub's ? Just scoops ?
Why i don't see scoop's at concerts and other outside applications ? I only see horn's and reflex sub's i guess .
Why i don't see scoop's at concerts and other outside applications ? I only see horn's and reflex sub's i guess .
What I'm saying is..............
Pending on the type of music you are playing,
(I'm guessing Reggae, Hip Hop) you can use
Scoops for that type of music has most of its
emphisis in the Scoops bandpass.
The downfall about getting information from
too many people, it cause confussion. Which
is exactly where you are right now.
The Standard Single PA Double Eighteen will go
down to 35 Hz. A single Scoop is 50Hz.
Since you are doing PA, you need to use groups
of speakers to get the coverage and sound needed.
Four Scoops will go down to around 35 Hz, which
properly powered will do better than two Double
Eighteens, considering you're feeding the Double
Eighteens, 3200 watts, and, the Four Scoops
3200 watts.
You have the horn as the advantage here, thus
getting more volume, and, a wider coverage.
Gotta Go..............
Pending on the type of music you are playing,
(I'm guessing Reggae, Hip Hop) you can use
Scoops for that type of music has most of its
emphisis in the Scoops bandpass.
The downfall about getting information from
too many people, it cause confussion. Which
is exactly where you are right now.
The Standard Single PA Double Eighteen will go
down to 35 Hz. A single Scoop is 50Hz.
Since you are doing PA, you need to use groups
of speakers to get the coverage and sound needed.
Four Scoops will go down to around 35 Hz, which
properly powered will do better than two Double
Eighteens, considering you're feeding the Double
Eighteens, 3200 watts, and, the Four Scoops
3200 watts.
You have the horn as the advantage here, thus
getting more volume, and, a wider coverage.
Gotta Go..............
OMNIFLEX
Finally ?
What i have to do ?
Make another 2 scoop's , so i have 2 scoops per channel and some sub's to put on top of them and on the sub's the HF cab ?
Finally ?
What i have to do ?
Make another 2 scoop's , so i have 2 scoops per channel and some sub's to put on top of them and on the sub's the HF cab ?
I've noticed you're on Rog's Forum.
That's where you will get the answers needed in your
situation.
The amount of pictures over there, should give you
the idea what is needed for Mid - High cabinets.
What you need to do?
1. Buy the right speakers for those scoops.
2. Buy a strong amplifier to drive those Scoops.
3. Listen, elvauate, and, determine, what those
Scoops are lacking, (If they are lacking) and,
take it from there.
You cannot come to a conclusion, until you
complete steps 1 - 3.
That's where you will get the answers needed in your
situation.
The amount of pictures over there, should give you
the idea what is needed for Mid - High cabinets.
What you need to do?
1. Buy the right speakers for those scoops.
2. Buy a strong amplifier to drive those Scoops.
3. Listen, elvauate, and, determine, what those
Scoops are lacking, (If they are lacking) and,
take it from there.
You cannot come to a conclusion, until you
complete steps 1 - 3.
OMNIFLEX ,
Hmm ..
Man , if i put :
1 x http://www.speakerplans.com/page14.html on each scoops it will sound good ?
2 x http://www.speakerplans.com/page13.html on each scoop it will sound good ?
2 x http://www.speakerplans.com/page12.html on each scoop it will sound good ?
What is the best combination ?
THANKS !
Hmm ..
Man , if i put :
1 x http://www.speakerplans.com/page14.html on each scoops it will sound good ?
2 x http://www.speakerplans.com/page13.html on each scoop it will sound good ?
2 x http://www.speakerplans.com/page12.html on each scoop it will sound good ?
What is the best combination ?
THANKS !
darkm4n said:
You Need To To This First
OMNIFEX said:
Everything Else You Are Trying To Do Will Not Help Until You Complete Steps 1 - 3
Have A Great Weekend! 😀
reply
As DarkM8n is sticking with scoops I'll help him decide what drivers and amps to use.
[1].
Any decent pa driver thats suitable for the cabinet[Eminence,Fane,Celestion,Precision Devices,P. Audio,Selenium,TAD,JBL,RCF,B&C,Beyma,Mc Cauley,Cerwin Vega,
Gauss,McKenzie,Peavey,Eighteen Sound].
A load of different pa speaker manufactors, sure your be able to find one that suits your budget and scoops.
To know what you you will need for scoops use a driver with a BL product 16 and over, and a QTS of 30 or lower and EBP[Efficentcy Bandwidth Product] of 100 and over.
If you follow these it will help find the correct driver for scoops.
[2].
Now for amps: QSC RMX2450 500w rms into 8 ohm per channel would be a ideal powerful amp or the Crown Macrotech 2400
or Peavey PV3400 or Matrix UKP1600R, 490w rms into 8 ohm per channel or Yamaha P5000s.
Any of these listed above are good powerfull poweramps,if you can't afford new buy 2nd hand.
[3] What scoops lack is deep, building shaking bass but have pretty good mid bass 'chest thump' on the music beats.
P.S. U said u'd use em outdoors, so use 18mm 11ply plywood.
If MDF gets damp it goes weak at the edges and screw fixings,thats why MDF is crap for outdoors.
Any 18mm 11 ply is ok,but 18mm 15ply birch ply is when you want cabinets to last years and years of outside use and abuse!
HAVE FUN!!!!!
Oh and one more thing use thick cable of 10----16 gauge to wire up the scoops to the amps!!!!!!
😎
As DarkM8n is sticking with scoops I'll help him decide what drivers and amps to use.
[1].
Any decent pa driver thats suitable for the cabinet[Eminence,Fane,Celestion,Precision Devices,P. Audio,Selenium,TAD,JBL,RCF,B&C,Beyma,Mc Cauley,Cerwin Vega,
Gauss,McKenzie,Peavey,Eighteen Sound].
A load of different pa speaker manufactors, sure your be able to find one that suits your budget and scoops.
To know what you you will need for scoops use a driver with a BL product 16 and over, and a QTS of 30 or lower and EBP[Efficentcy Bandwidth Product] of 100 and over.
If you follow these it will help find the correct driver for scoops.
[2].
Now for amps: QSC RMX2450 500w rms into 8 ohm per channel would be a ideal powerful amp or the Crown Macrotech 2400
or Peavey PV3400 or Matrix UKP1600R, 490w rms into 8 ohm per channel or Yamaha P5000s.
Any of these listed above are good powerfull poweramps,if you can't afford new buy 2nd hand.
[3] What scoops lack is deep, building shaking bass but have pretty good mid bass 'chest thump' on the music beats.
P.S. U said u'd use em outdoors, so use 18mm 11ply plywood.
If MDF gets damp it goes weak at the edges and screw fixings,thats why MDF is crap for outdoors.
Any 18mm 11 ply is ok,but 18mm 15ply birch ply is when you want cabinets to last years and years of outside use and abuse!
HAVE FUN!!!!!
Oh and one more thing use thick cable of 10----16 gauge to wire up the scoops to the amps!!!!!!
😎
Attachments
Impresive , with 4 scoop's per side with good amp and driver's i could get outside a good deep bass that shake everythink ?
Or should i build some subs ?
Or should i build some subs ?
reply
It's possible to shake everything including the concrete paving with scoops.Only heard and felt it rarelly like this. And this was at Notting Hill Carnival 2002 Saxon Soundsystem and Abi-Shanti system both with [16] 18 inch scoops driven from about 6 Crown Macrotech MA500VZ amps and a huge stereo 3/3 octave 2x 31 band eq.
So with [4] 15 inch scoops driven by a Crown Macrotech MA3600VZ, I doubt you'll shake everything.You might buzz some windows though.
Scoops rarelly produce any earthquake-sounding deep bass or deep organ or deep bass guitar string bass.
So many 18 inch scoops in multiples might go down to 40hz.
But a few 15 inch scoops will only go down to 80hz.
You could build some bandpass or reflex subs and use the scoops as well.But mixing type different types of bass bin you get phasing issues.
It's possible to shake everything including the concrete paving with scoops.Only heard and felt it rarelly like this. And this was at Notting Hill Carnival 2002 Saxon Soundsystem and Abi-Shanti system both with [16] 18 inch scoops driven from about 6 Crown Macrotech MA500VZ amps and a huge stereo 3/3 octave 2x 31 band eq.
So with [4] 15 inch scoops driven by a Crown Macrotech MA3600VZ, I doubt you'll shake everything.You might buzz some windows though.
Scoops rarelly produce any earthquake-sounding deep bass or deep organ or deep bass guitar string bass.
So many 18 inch scoops in multiples might go down to 40hz.
But a few 15 inch scoops will only go down to 80hz.
You could build some bandpass or reflex subs and use the scoops as well.But mixing type different types of bass bin you get phasing issues.
Attachments
Four scoops per side [placed 2x2 on the floor] tends to be the absolute minimum required to get reasonably deep bass and reasonable SPL. As I've said, LF horns are designed to be used in groups, not alone
To match this LF performance you would need at least two 10" horn loaded midrange per side
And as I've said, converting the scoops into front loaded horns enhances deep bass output but requires a lower midrange crossover poit, maybe 150-200Hz [genuine front loaded horns may have clean output up to higher frequencies]
To match this LF performance you would need at least two 10" horn loaded midrange per side
And as I've said, converting the scoops into front loaded horns enhances deep bass output but requires a lower midrange crossover poit, maybe 150-200Hz [genuine front loaded horns may have clean output up to higher frequencies]
to shake everything=labhorn
2x12" driver per box
135dbA for a pair.
700Litres per box. 4 boxes 2800litres
run several kw into that and it should do something ;-)
1 in a corner or 4 on the ground,similar response i think-down to 30cycles
Cheers
www.prosoundweb.com/lsp
2x12" driver per box
135dbA for a pair.
700Litres per box. 4 boxes 2800litres
run several kw into that and it should do something ;-)
1 in a corner or 4 on the ground,similar response i think-down to 30cycles
Cheers
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An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
www.prosoundweb.com/lsp
reply
If your experienced in woodworking and have the right tools, lab horn sub is probably the best you can make except for the 1850 horn.
But I doubt Darkm8n being fairly new to building enclosures [I think] will NOT be able yet to bulid the lab horn because it's much more difficult to build.
😕
If your experienced in woodworking and have the right tools, lab horn sub is probably the best you can make except for the 1850 horn.
But I doubt Darkm8n being fairly new to building enclosures [I think] will NOT be able yet to bulid the lab horn because it's much more difficult to build.
😕
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