I gather then that you've got some experience with some version of this driver - how do to find the off-axis response above say 8K?
Once again a bit of back seat driving here - I note from SS's spec sheets that while the 8ohm version seems to have slightly smoother on axis response above 2K, it falls off quicker and more raggedly above approx 3.5K off axis. Also, while both have Fs of 90Hz, the curves clearly show 6dB/Octave roll off below 250 Hz , but certainly healthy dynamic headroom is implied by the linear and max excursion of +/- 2.6 and 7mm respectively. So certainly, with careful EQ and amplifier headroom, these should work just fine.
I got the 8 ohm version. Along with 2x the potential power with the lower impedance usually comes 2x the distortion.
dave
Member
Joined 2009
I have the 4ohm version but for proper measurements I will refer to Zaph Audio's blog. I looked around and I don't think I saved off-axis measurements of the SS10F.
Zaph|Audio
I don't have much experience with other fullrange systems so I can't give a proper comparison. You can read about what I did in this post
well, FWIW, I just looked at their graph - which looks to me to start that nice soft ride down a little above 200 (250 was a wildazz guess)
and from Zaph's tests, sorta answer to the off axis question as well
Like I said before, I have no idea what this sounds like full-range
Last edited:
Okay .... after a brief listen to these last night, whatever merits they might have in a well executed multi-way (while they might be coaxed to deliver acceptable amounts of lower mid bass in whichever of a BLH or MLTL best suits it's TSP, they definitely need a tweeter AFAIC), at $88 CDN a piece, I can think of several wide(r) band paper and metal cone drivers in the approximate size class that I'd choose over these - starting with the FF85WK. As with its predecessor the FF85K, there's something very special about these from around 300 or so on up - open and detailed to a degree that makes the 10F sound very closed in and dull, to say the least when run "full range"
then there's the Alpair7.3
Where are they available that cheap?
Scanspeak Discovery 10F/8424G 4" Midrange 8 ohm: Madisound Speaker Store
At this point i still have to give the Scan the benefit of the doubt. It is true that the FF85wKeN trashed the Scan yesterday but the fight wasn't really fair.
I will comment when i get them both in the same room on the same system.
dave
Maybe this is what he means: http://www.solen.ca/pub/cms_nf_catalogue_fiche.php?id=2540&nobut=1
although I'm not sure what the additional 00 means or if either party had a typo.
although I'm not sure what the additional 00 means or if either party had a typo.
which additional 00?
Yes, for those who've bought from both before, it's a bit of a surprise to see Solen's price on drivers that much lower than Madisound's - (of course that could be temporary)
lol, well when they still had the Visaton R10SC, it was on sale for around $7. I looked at other websites and could see it was a sale.
When they shipped my first order, they took the time to credit my credit card for part of the shipping fees. And the shipping cost for the second order I found reasonable.
For whatever reason, it's one of the few places that sells .205" disconnector terminals by piece (that seem good quality as well).
When they shipped my first order, they took the time to credit my credit card for part of the shipping fees. And the shipping cost for the second order I found reasonable.
For whatever reason, it's one of the few places that sells .205" disconnector terminals by piece (that seem good quality as well).
Hobby hifi scan fast
I have built the Hobby hifi scan fast an it is absolutely fantastic.
Mr Timmermann knows what he is doing.
To cross this driver over at ca 300Hz you need a baffle size about 35cm wide othervise the baffle step will come in too high.The mid high drivers are mirror imaged and rounded edges,will give you a 35-20000 frquency respons +-1-2dB with a slightly rising top from 10KHz.Flat at 30 degrees out.
You wont get the crossover in the normal sensitive 2-3000Hz region and the SP 10 is as good as any dome i have listened too,mabye if you have a ribbon next to it there might not be as airy but if you dont you wont notice it.
You really dont need to learn german to build it,just look at the measurements and the pictures.I have built the cabinet straight up and calculeted the volumes so the bass is 50 liter and the midtweeter is 7-10 liters giving me a small separate volume behind the Mid tweeter for the crossover.Black fronts and white boxes.
If you are not going to cross this over with active filters ,dont try to figure something out for yourself just follow hobby hifi´s guidelines and drawings.
They are ready and as perfect as you can get with these drivers.
Compared to speakers on the market,Mr Timmermann says that you have to put them up against speakers in the 3000-4000 Euro class.4-5000 Dollars.
Thats how good they are.they will cost you about 700-1000 euro to build.
If you have crossover parts and box material laying around the drivers are 350 euro for the pair.You cant build anything better for these money.
FANTASIC fullrange speakers.Belive me.
Ps.I have Magnestand MG1.6,Carlsson OA51 and Ino audio I14 for comparison and i like these just as good and on some music better.Ds
I have built the Hobby hifi scan fast an it is absolutely fantastic.
Mr Timmermann knows what he is doing.
To cross this driver over at ca 300Hz you need a baffle size about 35cm wide othervise the baffle step will come in too high.The mid high drivers are mirror imaged and rounded edges,will give you a 35-20000 frquency respons +-1-2dB with a slightly rising top from 10KHz.Flat at 30 degrees out.
You wont get the crossover in the normal sensitive 2-3000Hz region and the SP 10 is as good as any dome i have listened too,mabye if you have a ribbon next to it there might not be as airy but if you dont you wont notice it.
You really dont need to learn german to build it,just look at the measurements and the pictures.I have built the cabinet straight up and calculeted the volumes so the bass is 50 liter and the midtweeter is 7-10 liters giving me a small separate volume behind the Mid tweeter for the crossover.Black fronts and white boxes.
If you are not going to cross this over with active filters ,dont try to figure something out for yourself just follow hobby hifi´s guidelines and drawings.
They are ready and as perfect as you can get with these drivers.
Compared to speakers on the market,Mr Timmermann says that you have to put them up against speakers in the 3000-4000 Euro class.4-5000 Dollars.
Thats how good they are.they will cost you about 700-1000 euro to build.
If you have crossover parts and box material laying around the drivers are 350 euro for the pair.You cant build anything better for these money.
FANTASIC fullrange speakers.Belive me.
Ps.I have Magnestand MG1.6,Carlsson OA51 and Ino audio I14 for comparison and i like these just as good and on some music better.Ds
are those yours? 😀
http://www.hifi-forum.de/index.php?action=browseT&forum_id=104&thread=23399&back=&sort=&z=2
PS: for 350 Euro you can build plenty of superb Loudspeakers 🙂
http://www.hifi-forum.de/index.php?action=browseT&forum_id=104&thread=23399&back=&sort=&z=2
PS: for 350 Euro you can build plenty of superb Loudspeakers 🙂
Last edited:
No they are not mine since i´m from sweden and that is a German site.
But they are the same,but with my design.
For 350 euro you can build some good speakers but nothing like the scan fast i have done this for 30 odd years now so i know what i´m taking about.
I have had everythig from small triods an big muscle amps and Quad electrostatics snell maggies but i have never heard a speaker that is so free from the crossover effects like a normal two way have.
It´s a wonderful speaker.
regards from sweden
But they are the same,but with my design.
For 350 euro you can build some good speakers but nothing like the scan fast i have done this for 30 odd years now so i know what i´m taking about.
I have had everythig from small triods an big muscle amps and Quad electrostatics snell maggies but i have never heard a speaker that is so free from the crossover effects like a normal two way have.
It´s a wonderful speaker.
regards from sweden
your right, nothing like the scanfast, because to do so, I must make the same LS 😛
yes you can make so good speakers with that money(about 600 Euro), even better, but another thing is that you don't believe me...
http://www.lautsprechershop.de/index_hifi_de.htm?http://www.lautsprechershop.de/hifi/scanfast.htm
and here is what you can build for that money (I have those flatconed TB, and no other FR can compare to them in what they can do)
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/boenicke2/sls.html
and you can make it much cheaper with other Midbass Drivers
yes you can make so good speakers with that money(about 600 Euro), even better, but another thing is that you don't believe me...
http://www.lautsprechershop.de/index_hifi_de.htm?http://www.lautsprechershop.de/hifi/scanfast.htm
and here is what you can build for that money (I have those flatconed TB, and no other FR can compare to them in what they can do)
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/boenicke2/sls.html
and you can make it much cheaper with other Midbass Drivers
Last edited:
Well i dont know what they sound like and you dont seem to know how thw scan fastsounds like.It will make it a draw.
The thing is that i know that the speakers made by Mr Timmermann of hobby hifi are very well built and with measurements that no other magazine or paper in the world has done, no other speakerbuilder does document their things as good as he does. I heve seen measurements from big producers that sell for big money like B&W and others that look like ****.Hobby hifi has made new crossovers for many commersial speakers that had dreadful crossovers.
All produsers have limitations in cost weight and looks,hobby hifi and we dont.
Regards from sweden
The thing is that i know that the speakers made by Mr Timmermann of hobby hifi are very well built and with measurements that no other magazine or paper in the world has done, no other speakerbuilder does document their things as good as he does. I heve seen measurements from big producers that sell for big money like B&W and others that look like ****.Hobby hifi has made new crossovers for many commersial speakers that had dreadful crossovers.
All produsers have limitations in cost weight and looks,hobby hifi and we dont.
Regards from sweden
Its not a draw, because I have really many fullrangers of all sizes, and the flatcone TB is something different from all of this 😉 the sound is hybrid of classic FR holographics x 2(can you imagine that?!), no beaming-dispersion like the widest tweeter, and HF like classic tweeter but in a sort of way that is unexplainable, like sonic showers, for me it's something new, I might say revolution in sound experience, because you can't hear something like that from any known speaker, it gives surround sound with just 2 loudspeakers, like omni-sound but focussing like best FR... and if there is some Loudspeaker that can't be localised, than it's that flat TB, and the whole room turns into soundstage, and it's active listening at its best, hard to describe because I'm from Serbia and you see how my English is 😛
I've gotten tired of explaining about those TB, and nobody believes me... but my experience is the same as Ebaens from 6moons, only his description is a little bit shy, because I think he was aware of the fact that nobody would believe him and people would think he is a fool that hypes, here again the same thing with the 4":
"Their off-axis response is a definitive highlight. It goes far to explain the brilliant image specificity and ambient dimensionality this speaker owns in its back pocket. HF dispersion is such that even sitting in front of one speaker spaced widely from the other doesn't have the stereo image collapse completely into it."
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/boenicke3/1.html
I've gotten tired of explaining about those TB, and nobody believes me... but my experience is the same as Ebaens from 6moons, only his description is a little bit shy, because I think he was aware of the fact that nobody would believe him and people would think he is a fool that hypes, here again the same thing with the 4":
"Their off-axis response is a definitive highlight. It goes far to explain the brilliant image specificity and ambient dimensionality this speaker owns in its back pocket. HF dispersion is such that even sitting in front of one speaker spaced widely from the other doesn't have the stereo image collapse completely into it."
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/boenicke3/1.html
Last edited: